UKH

I couldn’t help noticing in one of the Roger Bannister articles in the papers this week that he did Clachaig Gully very shortly before the four-minute mile and attributed a subsequent fall in times to this break in his training.

Sounds like a bit of a wuss, mind: Chris Brasher fell off and they came home early in case one of them sprained an ankle.

Also interesting to read that the papers in the period 1770-1790 reported more than once that a mile had been run in less than four minutes in connection with one of the very large wagers that were common about this sort of thing in those days. I hope Peter Radford writes a book about this. His last one about Captain Barclay’s 1000 miles in 1000 hours was fascinating.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously1: and to think they're restricting the use of the bouldering wall at Iffley Road gym (where the four minute mile was first run) during the celebrations....

In reply to johncoxmysteriously1:
Chris Brasher fell off and they came home early in case one of them sprained an ankle.


Dear John

Sounds like Chris was not so good at finishing things, not only races but routes as well.

Norrie

In reply to Norrie Muir:
I have vague memories of reading a book on 'how to climb' by John Disley (spelling ?) who was also a part of that group of runners when I had just started wandering the hills. Remember it had a whole chapter on how to hitchhike - can't imagine any modern day book including that !

In reply to Alison Parker:

Gosh, is that still there? Do they still do the Barlow traverse, I wonder? When I was there Jerry Barlow must have left six years before, but people were still trying ‘his’ traverse. What is it with people called Jerry?

According to Radford the first four minute mile was run down Old Street. Let’s hope they don’t close that!

My mother was present at the 1954 meeting earlier in the day, but went home when the rumour went round that the attempt was going to be abandoned because of the wind. Bad move. Interesting that that church used to fly the flag of St George. Did all churches used to do that? And when did they stop?

In reply to Norrie Muir:

Yeah, yeah. If only it had been a Scot they’d never have stooped to use pacemakers, you mean!

Actually I think they got up. They just went home afterwards instead of staying for the planned week or whatever.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously1:

Of course Bannisters attempt was when the ethical rot set in with the use of pacemakers. Sort of headpointing of running world and film of it is perhaps the Hard Grit of the day

In reply to Horse:

I'm sure your pacemaker must be going nineteen to the dozen at the thought of such a slip in ethical standards.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously1:

Dear John

Chris claimed 3rd or 4th place, however, that was not the truth. He may have not finished, there is no evidence he did, because of the crowd. If this was the case the record would have been invalid and would not be ratified, just like the other one that Peter mentioned.

Norrie

In reply to Horse:

Not so, actually – the existing record was set by the Swedes who had used pacemakers. It was only the Brits who considered this remotely unethical.

Bit like climbing, in fact. Did they have a pacemaker on the FA of Clachaig Gully?

In reply to johncoxmysteriously1: This one?
http://users.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/safeperl/chri1588/iffley.pl
yes, it's still there, complete with about 300 routes (the holds got numbered a few years back) and obsesive cult following....

In reply to johncoxmysteriously1:

And wasn't there an earlier attempt by the Brits that the relevant body refused to ratify because of the use of a pacemaker?

In reply to Norrie Muir:

6th and last, I think, but in any event, was it so cut and dried? If he had pulled up injured, for example, or indeed ‘injured’? I find it hard to believe the rules specified that all runners had to finish. On the other occasion (as I expect you know) he ran on the spot for a lap and then came to life and paced the last lap as well.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously1:
Interesting that that church used to fly the flag of St George. Did all churches used to do that? And when did they stop?

They still do - I think our local church was last flying it on April 23rd, which was St George's Day, but it flies on other high day and holidays too-

In reply to Alison Parker:

Awesome, awesome! And do the rowers still come out and sweat enormously? And the boxers grunt away with their situps? And people try to hang by their toes from the girders, with their heads poised two feet above the hard floor? And, indeed, is their honey still for tea?

Sorry to see the Barlow traverse vanishing into history, though. And even the low traverse, with that foot swop off the undercut, is not mentioned. And I can’t see Parker’s Leap (from the wall overlooking the main gym to catch some hold or other on the wall. Not popular with the management.)

Horse: yes, the earlier one was a British record. See my reply to Norrie.

Chataway, of course, broke the 10000 record later in the year without pacemakers.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously1:
Rowers don't seem to wander around sweating, but the boxers are still there. People do still hang by their feet off the girders (Nick fell off one a couple of months ago).
If you can remember the barlow traverse, we'll try and climb it. We do have a low level traverse, I just havent put the traverses on the website yet, they are only listed in the printed guidebook. Parker's Leap sounds like the first move of MentalShelf - jump accross the corridoor, catch the mantelshelf (hold 46) and then mantelhelf it to hold 99A (near the ceiling). We've got video footage of us doing it.
We also have a problem called the four minute mile...

In reply to johncoxmysteriously1:

We don't see too much of the rowers - they have their own "tank" whatever that might be. But the basketball players are pretty bad!


Mainly the people warming up for the gym with their enormous balls.


we have mats now!


???


We'd be happy to reinstate them if you tell us what they are!


Not seen it done myself but have seen it on video. Who was Parker?

In reply to johncoxmysteriously1:
I thought Jeffry Archer ran the first 4-minute mile

In reply to Andrew Ross:

No, I don’t think so: we used to do that too, but Parker’s Leap was harder and further right. I doubt if I could remember the Barlow Traverse even if I was there: there was a brilliant downward move off a small flake just right of the mantelshelf, but that’s pretty much all I can recall at a distance of 20 years, especially considering I couldn’t get anywhere near linking it at the time: few of us could. It would have been more than B8, I think.

Sean Myles used to do the low traverse endlessly: that’s how he got that back. Mike Dawes on the other hand used to favour traversing on negative holds only with smears for feet. Hard work, I imagine. I couldn’t do that either.

In reply to Alison Parker:

>Mainly the people warming up for the gym with their enormous balls

Nearly needed a new keyboard then, tea spat out.

In reply to Alison Parker:

MATS?? You realise that downgrades all of our problems, don’t you?

I can’t imagine how we didn’t break our ankles all the times, actually. Youth, presumably.

The honey thing was a reference to the Rupert Brooke poem about Grantchester (“Stands the church clock at ten to three?”, and so on).

Peter Parker was a tree surgeon who used to climb with us. He wasn’t very good at crimping owing to having sawn off his thumb at some point, but curiously he was very good at jamming (which you would think required a thumb, really). He was a lovely fellow who was killed when a path collapsed at Arapiles some time in the 1980s. No relation presumably?

In reply to johncoxmysteriously1:

sorry dear, honey's off.

In reply to Simon Caldwell: Peter Sellers, "Balham: Gateway to the South". Do I get points?

I have a very small family so unlikely!

In reply to Alison Parker:

Peter Parker???? What the hell am I talking about? Phil Parker. I guess Peter was too busy running British Rail to climb much.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously1:

Peter Parker is a very accomplished climber and has starred in a couple of Hollywood blockbusters as well as a long-running comic strip.

Oh, and Rupert was a Cambridge lad, so I don't know where you get off on using him in a eulogy about an Oxford climbing wall.

Now the Kelsey Kerridge - there was a wall...

In reply to johncoxmysteriously1:


During my time there someone had the inspired idea of painting all the brickwork with what appeared to be green anti-climbing paint. Fortunately, the Brookes wall opened at about that time and we more or less gave up on Iffley

In reply to Martin W:

and what do points mean?

In reply to Dave Garnett:

Is that where the Leeds Wall got their inspiration?

In reply to johncoxmysteriously1:

"1000 miles in 1000 hours"

Is that such a mega feat? is that not just like walking 24 ish miles a day over 41 days?

Or am i missing the point?

m@

In reply to m@:

Yes, the title compresses the terms somewhat. The challenge was to do one mile every hour for 1000 hours. So you could never sleep more than, say, an hour and twenty minutes at a time (given 20 minute miles, the first started at say 0.40, the second finished at 1.20, starting again at 2.40 and so on). Still allows a fair amount of sleep per day, of course, but apparently surprisingly difficult – there was much debate about whether it was possible at all, and various failed attempts, before a Captain Robert Barclay succeeded. I have forgotten the exact size of the audience who were there for the finish, but it was very considerable – some tens of thousands I think. Television has a lot to answer for.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously1:

aha, that sounds a little more tricky, probably mostly due to the inability to get effective sleep and subsequent REM deprivation.

a sterling effort, no doubt.

m@

In reply to johncoxmysteriously1:
Yeah, yeah. If only it had been a Scot they’d never have stooped to use pacemakers, you mean!

Dear John

Did your hero "Captain Robert Barclay" use a pacemaker. Sorry, but he was a Scot, born in August 1777 at Ury House just outside Stonehaven in Scotland, so he must have.

Norrie

In reply to Norrie Muir:

I think he did, didn't he? He certainly had to be carried to the starting line on occasions.

Not exactly my hero, but certainly a notable feat. Kind of halfway between the Blaine and the Beckham of his time, I suppose.