UKH

I was at the Paradise Wall area, Stanage yesterday.

There is a small brass plaque beneath the Millsom's Minion buttress. It looks fairly new as the brass is still shiny and not weathered.

It has the birth and death dates of Leonard (Legger) and Kenneth (Kenny, who sadly died young at 54).

Notwithstanding the desire in some people to have a public memorial to loved ones, which I fully understand, I'm not sure such things are appropriate in areas of natural beauty.

The plague is attached to a boulder well under the undercut and so unlikely to interfere with any climbing. However, it is not a natural feature. 

No doubt there are many people who have strong connection to Stanage and some may love to have a permanent memorial there. If this were to happen frequently, I suspect that such plaques could interfere with climbing as well as detract from the natural beauty of the rock.

Clearly memorials are important, not just to loved ones, but also the public. They remind us of people who may or may not have had interesting lives, but they existed. They also remind us that our own lives are finite.

Prior to seeing the plaque, I didn't really know who Legger Millsom was, but now I do (the Joe Brown of Sheffield?).

My condolences to the Millsom family and I hope that this post has not offended you (whether you are involved in the plaque or not).

My intention is merely to raise the question about the appropriateness of permanent memorials in such places as Stanage or any natural environment.

Here's an old thread you might have missed: https://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/rocktalk/memorial_plaques_glued_to_the_cr...

I did do a search about this prior to posting, but nothing came up.

Clearly I need to improve on my search technique as this topic has previously been posted and extensively discuss!

Probably not a popular idea on a gritstone crag but there ought to be less concern on a crag which has been extensively bolted.

My opinion is that people can put up plaques (or other memorials) on their own land. I am strongly against them doing so on someone else's land (or on common land, or in National Parks) if they do not have the owner's permission

Edit, this is what the Lake District Foundation say on the topic:

https://www.lakedistrictfoundation.org/sponsor-the-lake-district-national-p...

"We regularly receive requests for memorials to be placed in the Lake District National Park. We do appreciate the importance of memorials for the families of deceased loved ones and understand how a memorial in a cherished place or landscape can provide a comfort. However if we were to give permission to all the requests we receive, the numbers involved would become extremely intrusive in this natural and beautiful landscape. For this reason we refuse all requests for memorials on land owned by the National Park"

No criticism implied, I just thought you'd find the old thread interesting.
(It took a couple of attempts btw - I don't think I'd have found it either if I didn't already know it was there.)

I was thinking about this the other day when I noticed a similar plaque glued to a trig-point whilst out for a run.  That didn't seem particularly appropriate either really, but less inappropriate than there being one stuck to Stanage I think.

Plaques are are not appropriate in areas of natural beauty, are not natural features and detract from the natural beauty of the rock - just like bolts.

Dave

Although I'm not generally in favour of plaques putting them on trig points doesn't seem such a bad idea, really.

Funnily enough both my mum and dad have died yet none of my family - as far as I know - have evinced any desire to commemorate them with a 'memorial.' I don't know what that says about us.

This has been discussed at the last two Peak Area BMC meetings. Efforts were being made to contact the family and find if they had put it up. It is possible that it will be removed. Attend the next meeting on 12th June at the Maynard in Grindleford and find the current state of affairs regarding this and many other topics. (Food will be provided free of charge!)

That the memories and talking about them are enough.

Is skype (or something else) a possibility for people who can't make it out to the meetings?

Hi Ian

I'm one of the BMC access reps for Stanage. As johncook correctly stated above, we are aware of it and it is in-hand. For many years the North Lees estate policy has been for there to be no man-made objects above the road. Consistent with this, when we posed the question to the floor at the BMC meeting a few months ago there was near-unanimous agreement that it should be removed (with a concerted effort to contact and discuss with the family first). I have been in contact with the family but unfortunately they have not shown any willingness to discuss the location of the plaque. I am in the middle of writing my thesis which has meant that this has dropped down the to-do list, but that notwithstanding, we will look to be removing it in the near future.

Cheers, Andy