UKH

"The international climbing community is somewhat bewildered after an announcement in August from the Swedish Climbing Federation's chairman, who proclaimed that all offensive names on climbing routes would be banned..."

http://www.alpinist.com/doc/web10f/newswire-route-names-ban-sweden

In reply to ice.solo: buahhahahahaha. What a load of nonsense. Are they going to set up a commission to carefully sort through all route names and decide which are offensive? Or will anyone who finds a name offensive be able to demand the first ascentionist changes it?

This makes me want to go to sweden and put up lots of routes with horrid names just for the lulz.

In reply to ice.solo:

Good luck to them enforcing the ban.

If Swedish climbers are anything like everywhere else i predict a solid stream of 'interesting' new route names...

In reply to ice.solo:


See what i mean?

In reply to ice.solo:

what strikes me is that its not so much offensive language, but offensive cultural stuff about nazis etc that worries them.

i wonder if ice routes get the same treatment - considering they only exist a few months a year.

In reply to ice.solo:

I'm pretty sure this is somewhat enforced in the UK now. New routes will not be recorded or placed in guide books if they are deemed to have offensive names.

I remember a mate of mine trying to get one past Andy Nisbet for the North Highlands (North) giude and it was refused.

In reply to Removed User:

one less white nigger

wogs

if the first accents were in the 1920s... it wasnt 'racist' at the time.

In reply to ice.solo: I agree with them. I hate some of the names of routes here in the USA. When children ask what route they just climbed, i dont want to tell them because of the offensive language. I wish they would enforce it here.

In reply to Tylert222:
Why not explain instead...or wait until they can understand?

Seeing as though Nazis have already been mentioned. Did they not burn books to "protect" the population from "filthy" books?

Are we not making ourselves mini tyrants by overprotecting younger generations of "all" badness?

Just a thought.

In reply to French Erick:

It seems that the Swedish Climbing Federation's stance is not quite as pompous as that:

http://e9climbing.blogspot.com/2010/10/name-of-game.html

"after internal discussions the Federation issued a more sober statement basically saying that route naming is not some thing they can influence".

The examples of offensive names given in Alpinist, such as "Swastika" seem relatively unoffensive (to us at least - mainland europe is understandably more sensitive to those kind of historical references) - Etive Slabs have a classic route of the same name. However, if the route names were particularly nasty racist slurs or slogans, and you were a guidebook publisher, would you choose to honour the FA's choice of name?

In reply to henwardian:

I seem to remember in the 1960s irate clergymen penning letters protesting about Boningon's route name 'The Holy Ghost' on Scafell. Would it even raise an eyebrow today?

Mick

In reply to Removed User:

I think that's generally the case (and I'd agree with it). If it's something clever or with a double meaning I think it's more likely to be accepted than something obscene or offensive just for the sake of it.

In reply to KeithAlexander:

Swastika is a great name! It's also imaginative since the line the route takes is a bit like a swastika.

In reply to Michael Gordon:

John Redhead seemed to have a knack for obscene and offensive route naming.

I recall a situation some time ago where a group of us climbers were talking about his routes in a cafe. We didn't think anything about it but I asked others to keep there voices down as I could see people shuffling in their seats and looking disapprovingly at us as we mentioned some of JR's routes. It was clear to see why some of them were possibly offended especially with children around. To us we were just talking about climbing but to an outsider the conversation must have sounded very weird indeed.

Al

In reply to tradlad:

I found many of JR's names puerile, as though he was trying too hard to make an 'artistic statement', i.e. shock.

'Margins of the Mind', the title of a tome on psychiatry, if I remember correctly, was a notable exception.

Mick

P.S. Why aren't you out climbing, Al? I'm just off myself. Early start!

In reply to Mick Ward: No partner and don't fancy traveling too far when weather is changeable. I have been getting out mid week though and I'm off to Kalymnos in just 10 days time.

Al

In reply to tradlad:

It can be even worse abroad. You're innocently batting local route names around in a cafe and blissfully unaware of their offensive meanings until someone comes and starts berating you - probably in a language you don't understand or at a speed and volume you can't follow.

In reply to French Erick:

>Are we not making ourselves mini tyrants by overprotecting younger generations of "all" badness?

Right. Because looking at society inadequate access of youngsters to 'badness' is obviously the major problem with it, hey?

jcm

In reply to kit perry:

I don't find "One less white nigger" all that offensive. It is after all a quotation from a song celebrating the life of a great anti-apartheid hero.

Having said that, it's still a pretty childish effort as a route name. I wonder who the FA was.

jcm

In reply to Removed User:

Intriguing - what was the name?

Perhaps Andy'll be along to explain why it was turned down (unless it's obvious)...

In reply to KeithAlexander:

Idiotic. A swastika is a Hindu religious symbol, appropriated (in reverse) by the Nazis.

They were fond of the (Iron) Cross. Are all cruciform references to be censored too?

In reply to mrjonathanr:

In the Swedish case, offense was taken, not from a route named "Swastika" in particular, but from a crag with a number of routes named with a "nazi theme" ('Himmler', 'Hitler', 'Third Reich', etc).

In reply to KeithAlexander: Don't we have quite a few in North Wales, Zyklon B etc?

AS far as I'm concerned let the names go in, if for no other reason than to let people form a view on the person naming them.

In reply to mrjonathanr:
just to be pedantic - the swastika is seen in both orientations in hindu and buddhist art.
nazi version was nothing special

In reply to ice.solo:

I may be wrong but I believe swastika is named after the shape your body makes when running like you would to preserve yourself in a fall on the slabs. Arms and legs at right angles, swastika ing down hill?

In reply to tradlad:
l

They always seemed just a bit silly really - look at me I've given it a rude name - a bit like something written in a school toilet

In reply to Bulls Crack:

"Johnverybiglongwords" in Bus Stop Quarry (?) being the perfect antidote.

In reply to Southern Man:

A play on JimVeryBigWords (??), who once lived close to Bus Stop at the appropriately named 'Lookout' (in Welsh)

"So you can look down and see your enemies coming?" I asked.
He mused... then smiled.

Mick

In reply to nufkin:

I can't remember to be honest but it was nothing obvious. A subtle play on words.

In reply to Removed User:

Did we not have a really long involved thread on Zyklon B some years ago?

In reply to KeithAlexander: Im talking about sexually offensive names. I wish they were banned.

In reply to ice.solo:

The big problem is deciding what is offensive.
I think Dougal Haston's 'F*ck Face' (@Dunkeld) is a great route name on a fairly average route. The brilliance of the name made me want to do it.
I'm sure there are hundreds of offensively named routes that would put me off climbing them simply because they are unfunny.
This is where the problem of censorship comes in. Who decides what is palatable?

In reply to Wee Davie:

Agreed - who would decide where to draw the line?

e.g. K.M.A. - ok or not?

Strapadictomy - ok or not?

In reply to ice.solo:

And prehistoric rock art from these islands

Y.

In reply to nufkin:

I can't remember what it was. I perhaps once a year suggest to someone that they might change a name, as it's not in the Scottish tradition to use names that are sexually anatomical or explicit, or are called after themselves, or are too long that they will never be used in conversation. I often have to explain that Raeburn didn't name all the various gullies after himself, just he didn't name them at all and they subsequently became known as Raeburn's Gully - which was OK when there were so few climbers around. And that F#ck Face etc, routes on Creag Dubh and Craig y Barns, were deliberately named to offend the SMC who declined to publish a guidebook to outcrops. That was the SMC's mistake (my opinion) but arbitrarily changing them would have compounded the mistake.

In reply to KeithAlexander:

I don't think the name Swastika was racist, or if it was it failed because it was never taken as such. It would be different if it was used as part of a theme. The swastika was around long before the Nazis adopted it.

In reply to ice.solo:
i dont know.. hmm. is "burn the jews" off limits ?
i would say so . and "hot tits" would be ok.
guidelines by examples..

Aren't route names in general a bit of a strange concept? We give a name to a section of rock that has been ascended in a certain, limited way... a bit of weird to me really.

Also, it's not as if names can often reflect the bit of rock they are attributed to. Hardly the same as a book title which refers to the contents inside the covers.

In reply to John Rushby:

Yes. It was a gas.

In reply to ice.solo:

I would guess that route names are covered by the same laws as any written material, so (for example) racist or libelous route names are banned anyway.

Y.

In reply to Yrmenlaf: like crew pegs diffs?

The way i see it, if you dont like it, dont do it.

In reply to dror:

Agreed.

We need more 'tit' route names......

In reply to Andy Nisbet: You suggested me and friend came up with a better name for a route we recorded once as well Andy! In retrospect you were right, and we were just uncouth 18 year olds, but is this something you have had to do many times over the years?

In reply to ice.solo:

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.

its just a name, its the route that matters, who cares what its called, its pretty easy not to mention the names in public if you dont want to,
i.e. if I mentioned "tormented..." you'd all know what I meant.

In reply to TobyA:

Just occasionally. But I'm not very streetwise, so some will get through. I usually reckon that if I don't spot anything, it can't be that bad.

In reply to Steeve:

Before you know anything about the route, it's the name that matters. And a route with a good name gets more ascents. Nothing obscene, I once called a route Growbag Grooves. Because it was on An Groban. I didn't really think about the implication, but it hasn't had a second ascent and folk have said to me, "it doesn't look that bad". It's clean as a whistle actually.

In reply to ice.solo:
Like we've never had censorship before? In ther Peak routes such as Third Burglar and The Snivelling were so-called as a result of censorship(and have had their correct names reinstated in the latest guides) as was Juan Cur (which has not). This may have something to do with Grimer replacing Geoff Milburn, but anyway times change. Editors have some responsibility to reinstate the original name when the time is right.

Curious how many people seem too quick to take ofence at Redheads' route names. Are the names really that bad, or is it rather the artist's instinctive self-promotion, narcissism even, that some people object to? I'd accept that his route names are often deliberate attempts to shock, but when you think about it they are hardle ever rude, especially if you're a medic, pathologist, biologist etc. They just touch on taboo subjects like menstruation or death. Quite cleverly exposing those who choose to be offended, if you ask me. Stiff Syd's Cap is actually quite charming, in a way.

As George Orwell said, it's dubious policy to censor anything, with the possible exception of saucy seaside postcards.