UKH

I'm nearly 65 and my arms don't seem to want to climb any more. Had a shoulder injury for several years which I've done physio but limits me to 5a ish at wall and nothing strenuous outside. Then whilst being careful got elbow injury on other arm- maybe tennis elbow. Rested it for a couple of months. Went back this week and did two 4's at the wall and pulled something in my wrist- not in the arm with elbow injury. I'm not overweight, and do pilates and yoga, running and cycling. Not naturally strong but various aches stop me building up strength. Has  anyone else experienced this. Is it time to quit?

In reply to gimmergimmer:

No one can answer this for you on the internet, but the obvious issue is that deconditioning after a layoff increases susceptibility to injury.

Maybe you were unlucky, maybe something else is going on, or just maybe, you need to resume even easier than that and build up very slowly.

Your post suggests you have not been seeing a physio for the elbow? I'd start by chatting to a good physio about where you're at. Good luck.

In reply to gimmergimmer:

Sorry to hear about the injuries and pain. Follow your head and your heart. Perhaps there are ways to keep climbing with care. It might be worth trying to talk to someone with the relevant knowledge, e.g. a coach who knows their stuff about physiology and aging. It may be that with certain warms ups, perhaps some stretches or strengthening exercises, or just by sticking to slabbier climbs, that you can find a way forward. Best wishes with it.

In reply to gimmergimmer:

I can sympathise - I'm 65 too.

But here's some things to think about:

You say that you do "pilates and yoga, running and cycling". That's great, but none of those will help if your arms are weak and/or fragile. If you want to keep climbing, then you need to work on sorting your arms out (strength, resilience, range of motion etc). And simply resting is rarely the answer. At our age things don't get better on their own - you have to do something actively to improve them. I spend a non-trivial amount of time doing exercises (strength, mobility...) just to make sure I don't degenerate* faster than I absolutely need to. The fact that you say that you're "not naturally strong" also suggests that you probably need to do non-climbing exercises before throwing yourself back onto the wall.

* Actually, I'm probably climbing better now than I was a decade ago, but the point is that I have to work hard to achieve/maintain that.

I can't usefully suggest specific exercise for you. In my case the exercises are very specific to the particular problems I've got. You really should probably have a session (or more) with a climbing-aware physio. And accept that you'll have to have the mental discipline to stick with the exercise for the foreseeable future (if you want to keep climbing).

In reply to gimmergimmer:

I’m over 10 years younger than you but I get less injuries now than I used to. I’ve found that a patient, methodological warm up really helps.  Also, active rehab has healed things way more effectively that just plain rest.  Lateral and medial epicondylitis, for example.

In reply to gimmergimmer:

I'm 67 and find I have to be careful as injuries take a lot longer to recover from. Having said that I'd approach it by doing really easy stuff and concentrate on using feet and technique. If it hurts, drop a grade and slowly slowly strength and climbing fitness will build. Also perhaps worth joining a gym and getting a personalised strength program from a trainer? Good luck!

In reply to gimmergimmer:

Maybe don't think of it as such a black and white question. If you take a break for a bit while you're injured/not psyched then that's fine. Nothing to stop you pottering up a nice long VDiff in the lakes in the summer, which sounds like it would still be well within your capabilities and a great day out. 

My plan for my more senior years is scrambling. I figured I'll be able to do until just before I can't walk. Hopefully by that point I'll have swapped roles with the boy and he can carry my stuff too!

In reply to Somerset swede basher:

Thanks for a positive reply.

 I've been thinking on those lines. Scrambling and easy outdoor routes are probably the way forward. Managed some good multi pitch vdiffs in May this year and last year. My daughter leads sometimes. I think climbing walls can be off putting and don't have the variety of choice of holds or technique if you're a bit croc.

In reply to gimmergimmer:

Sounds like my entire climbing career. Give up, I guess, if its making you miserable. Otherwise, keep plodding along at whatever grade your body allows.

In reply to gimmergimmer:

"To rest is to to rust"

J.R. "Nat" Allen 

In reply to afx22:

This. Warming up properly is crucial for me now and I also see a climbing physio when a niggle develops. He gives me info about when to rest but also exercises to make whatever is injured stronger so that it doesn't just get injured again next time. So saying, I am also finding that indoor climbing is more of a problem for my body than outdoor climbing (due to the types of holds & moves). That makes me all the more keen to move out of the city & to somewhere with plenty of rock. 

In reply to gimmergimmer:

FWIW I only started climbing regularly on a wall (I.e once a week, occasionally more) a couple of years ago ... I think in some ways I must be lucky because I've managed to go from 5 to 6b without injury - and I've been sufficiently motivated to go outside, both here and abroad.

I think some of it must be down to genes, and some down to not training TOO hard...

 Not naturally strong but various aches stop me building up strength. Has  anyone else experienced this. Is it time to quit?

        That's for you to decide - if  (any) climbing gives you a buzz then do it! It might not be quite as you would wish it to be, but we are all adaptable, and if the thirst is still there then you'll be able to adapt and thrive at whatever level you can manage. I know this - I've had a broken back, a dislocated shoulder, an artificial hip, another hip that's bone-on-bone, and other things too - and as a 76 year-old I'm itching to get back on rock next year - I'm not quitting yet! Good luck!!

In reply to gimmergimmer:

If you live near the Foundry or Leeds I am more than happy for you to join me for a coffee climb and coffee  even a sneaky cake.  I say keep going. The social aspect can not be over stated.

M

In reply to gimmergimmer:

Don't quit.  Or at least not yet.

Go up to the Lakes or north Wales and do some long easy routes in the hills. Well within "your grade", with a good mate.

You'll love climbing again, but for different reasons.

The real reasons.

In reply to Moacs

Absolutely.  Anyone who can still manage 5a has more than enough to keep them busy.  4a even.  I’m 65 and am counting on at least another 20 years of active service!

In reply to gimmergimmer: I’m a similar age and can empathise with your situation. I suggest that if you still love climbing then carry on and enjoy at what ever level you can. Two practical points: these days  I always take the time to warm up properly before a climbing session and have found the Powerball to be a good recovery aid for arm injuries.

In reply to AdrianWalter:

Thanks for all your suggestions. And in the main very positive ones. I shall work towards outdoor 'easy' routes  and scrambling next year. (Sort out a bit of physio over the winter). Which is where I started and seems much more uplifting going back to the hills -rather than aches and pains on a noisy indoor wall. 

In reply to gimmergimmer:

I was very sorry to read about the challenges you're facing.

I have a qualification in exercise for older adults (mostly for my volunteer work teaching yoga in health settings, but it's also useful for myself - I turned 60 last month).  A few points that might be relevant to you:

Firstly, if you're running, cycling etc, you are much fitter and more active than most people your age, so congratulate yourself on that 🙂

Secondly, many people can continue to restore muscle strength with appropriate exercise at least into their 80s.  Check with a physio, but it sounds to me like you've got into a vicious cycle of arm and shoulder injuries leaving your muscles weaker and more prone to injury each time, but that doesn't mean you can't gradually reverse that cycle.  Are you eating enough protein? Recommended intake for active older adults is more than you'd think! You could also see my recent article on how improving shoulder stability can help reduce your risk of injury.
https://verticalyoga.org/2023/07/31/yoga-scapular-stability-and-climbers-el...

Some posters have recommended enjoying easy routes outdoors and I would wholeheartedly agree with that. But I wouldn't give up on indoor walls - they're a great resource for training climbing muscles in a controlled situation.  When I'm recovering from injury I toprope to reduce the risk of further injuries and don't hesitate to use extra holds to make routes easier.

Last but not least, don't underestimate the social and mental health benefits of climbing. Grades matter much less when you're in beautiful places and in good company.

In reply to gimmergimmer:

Rage, rage against the dying of the light!!!

good luck 

In reply to gimmergimmer:

Easier outdoor routes is my solution (aged 68), there are some absolutely superb HS & VS routes out there. Read classic rock if you want inspiration.

Edit- having said that, I’ve just returned from a session at my local climbing wall.

In reply to Mark Kemball:

Well I've done a lot of Classic Rock in my youth. Some wonderful routes. But now I was thinking  more around the legendary and never published 'Easy Rock'. (Though that sounds as if it would come with an Eagles soundtrack).

In reply to gimmergimmer:

I think a lot of indoor routes involve thugggy pulls and are strenuous so can easily lead to injury for us oldies. Some padding up Ailefroide granite slabs or easier sections in the Kalymnos sunshine will reinvigorate you.

In reply to gimmergimmer:

“Easy Rock” perhaps you should consider scrambling routes or look at Dan Bailey’s Scottish Mountain Ridges. I’ve also been getting back into mountain walking - there’s some wonderful stuff to do out there. 

In reply to Somerset swede basher:

I’m 73 now and scrambling has been a brilliant discovery for me and visiting crags I never went to in my harder climbing days, such as Tryfan E face, or the Glyders and Idwal. One problem for mountain days out is endurance. For example doing the Welsh 3000ers is now not running in a day, but one at a time! Still rock climbing as well though, but the injuries pile up as the grades go down and every succeeding generation has faced this problem, but I’ll keep on keeping on.

In reply to gimmergimmer:

Do you do any resistance training, e.g. weights? As you get older you lose muscle mass and people often find building strength can help with age-related joint aches and pains. 

In reply to mik82:

Lots of good ideas on here. Thanks. I think the secret is to forget about what you used to do. And just start again with what you've got. And enjoy that.

In reply to Graham Booth:

Similar to Thomas is Game of Thrones (TV), something like:

Death is the enemy. Death always wins, but we carry on fighting it anyway.

Another vote for enjoying lower grade climbs. Long exposed scrambles on Skye etc with bits of Diff. The joy of  moving unencumbered by masses of expensive gear. Also a few low tide walks  below cliffs with possible easy climbing and short swims.

In reply to gimmergimmer:

I can highly recommend Andy Mcvittie, he's a coach & physio. He really helped me with understanding how to warm-up & managing my physical expectations. 

Stay safe 

I have one friend aged 79 who is still climbing 6a indoors and enjoys regular trips to the Costa Blanca etc. He has never called it a day or had a lull in his climbing while most of his contemporaries have quit. Some have paused but found injuries problematic when they tried to resume. He is happy to redo easy climbs he did over 60 years ago.

I know another couple of guys in their mid 70s who have quit recently because they are frustrated with their declining performances . A few years ago they were doing 6c + but the prospect of bumbling around on 4s and 5s / Severe just doesn't appeal .

All in the attitude. Neither is right.

In reply to earlsdonwhu:

I would say “Neither is wrong!”

In reply to gimmergimmer:

Mick Fowler seems to be as good a role model as any these days if you need one.

In reply to gimmergimmer:

Just noticed on FB that Rowland Edwards is still new routing at the age of 86. I regularly climb indoor with a 78yo who cranks out 7as

In reply to gimmergimmer:

I'm only in my 50s but I'm already thinking I need to be more canny about avoiding injuries etc. My impression (happy to be corrected) is that isometric strength training is what is needed to keep our bodies resilient. So whilst a youngster can just throw themselves at the climbing, an older climber benefits especially from doing hangs and lockoffs etc that then mean that their body can still cope with the climbing. 

Perhaps do a several times a week isometric routine (whilst listening to music/podcast or whatever) and then be able to enjoy whatever climbing you enjoy injury free.

I have to stress though that I'm about as far from being a training guru as it is possible to be so I might be totally wrong.

In reply to stone elworthy:

Why isometric? Otherwise agree.

In reply to Marek:

I think the point of it being isometric is because that can stimulate strengthening adaptations without tearing, tweaking etc. After all, snatching your way up a climb when weak would be the least isometric way to go and that is what would just break the injury prone older climber. 

Also, two climbers (one a guy in late 50s one a woman in early 20s) told me they had cured really bad recurrent elbow tendonitis by doing isometric lock offs on a bar. 

In reply to gimmergimmer: I'm in the sub 60's but yoga, core and some isometric training has greatly reduced my rate of injury.   Some of the people I climb haven't done this, and seem permanently wonky

You need to be canny about how hard to push and how to recover as well

In reply to gimmergimmer:

Ha ha all the same as you including ripping two tendons off completely but I will keep on trying. Like to do Via  ferratta abroad as it’s easier on the arms

In reply to HB1:

Well, I'm 80 and had 2 strokes 6 years ago. Still climb at the wall (only up to 5 b ish)  Also when I visit my friends in France they find me several really friendly crags. Just 4's, but give me no end of pleasure.  Don't give up - (unless you really want to).

In reply to l marsh:

HaHa! - good for you. Keep going -that's the thing - but I'm not the guy who thinks its time to quit!

In reply to HB1:

Now that is the attitude Richard, I can beat you by 6 years and regularly go to Kendal wall with a 74 year old and a 77 year old.

High crags are out of the question -cant manage heavy kit especially downhill but still active on the lower outcrops albeit at somewhat reduced grades.

Whilst life is there,I  intend to keep going!

 Good to hear it Bob,3 Miocardial Infarcts ,in ITU with Covid followed by a stroke and presently on steroid injections for Prostate Cancer whitch causes muscle weakness I still manage the odd 6a at the wall,now in my 90th year I plan to go on as long as possible.As my mother always said if you dont do it now there are no second chances .She passed away at 110.

In reply to Bob Bennett:

You need to enlist a young sherpa! Alternatively look at buying lightweight gear, carrying less kit and skinny lightweight ropes. Also, are you using walking poles? I find them very useful particularly when going downhill carrying a sack.

In reply to Mark Kemball:

Used walking poles for at least 10 years would not be without them! Maybe ask my (sprightly) 77 year old mate to carry the gear in future! Thanks for the advice

In reply to PATTISON Bill:

Good to hear it Bill will pop in for a craic next time I am down West Cumbria way.

In reply to gimmergimmer:

66 here.

Sarcopenia seems, to me, to affect arms and shoulders first. Answer go to gym, eat protein.

And stretch after climbing. If i don't do really intensive stretching of my lats and fingers i can barely move for the next few days and will get intense pain in my neck. And fingers will get injured. Discover what works for you.

I had similar multiple problems in '21. I went to phyio on line, as it had to be, with 5 problems and said "choose one". I came away with 6.

I went to see a hand surgeon (£180). Said two can't be fixed. 

I decided to give it a break for a while, only now restarting. And my body waz like "thank god".

Re the shoulder, stick the money (£200ish)on the table and get to the bottom of it.

I wonder if there is more going on than the injuries to be even able to contemplate giving up. Climbing for me, has switched from a way of life to something i do for fun and to keep fit. And i can see that after 50 years of climbing i waz getting a bit jaded. I had to give up pushing the trad because of my eyes so took to sport climbing. But it gets a bit samey even though i was doing ok. Adventure it isn't. I have bought a sailing boat. New horizons and it's a world where i am considered young!