UKH

Route suggestions Tremadog for cleaning/revival

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 rachelpearce01 24 Nov 2022

I’m compiling a list of quality routes at tremadog that either need some attention or a major clean to bring them back into perfect condition. Does anyone have any good suggestions or experiences? I’m especially after suggestions of routes that used to get done more often and were of good quality, but have now called by the wayside. For the time being I’m focusing on bwlch y moch. Clean edge would be a good example of this. It’s great climbing but is a bramble garden now. 

In reply to rachelpearce01:

Borneo was pretty bad last time I did it, but I suspect it got that name for a reason

Burlesque is pretty overgrown, I backed off leading secateurs in hand a few years ago, not sure it's been cleaned since.

The start of the corner on the top pitch of grim wall is getting encroached on by the ivy a little bit.

Some gentle trimming on the link pitch on Hail Bebe might be worthwhile but it might also have died back a fair bit now (brambles).

I'm sure there are more, those are just the ones that come to mind. 

 Si Witcher 24 Nov 2022
In reply to rachelpearce01:

Thanks for volunteering to help organise Rachel. I'd look at the ukc logbook for Bwlch y Moch and sort in reverse order of logbook entries. This gives a starter for 10 list of routes across the grade range that might need a clean or quality review. 

Regarding the 'revival' category, if there are any candidate routes identified in due course with knackered old pegs that require 'attention', it'd be good to bring a list to a NW Area Meeting for consultation before any drilling/gluing, especially as this is the BMC's own crag.

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In reply to Si Witcher:

There won't be any drilling or gluing if I'm around.

Post edited at 20:43
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 kevin stephens 24 Nov 2022
In reply to Alex Riley: can we glue Shadrach together again?

In reply to kevin stephens:

> can we glue Shadrach together again?

Fandango was a good route, might need a lot of glue for that one though.

 mrjonathanr 25 Nov 2022
In reply to Si Witcher:

> before any drilling

Is this a serious comment?

1
 Tom Ripley 25 Nov 2022
In reply to Alex Riley:

> There won't be any drilling or gluing if I'm around.

I hope you don’t clip them… when you’re climbing elsewhere. 

Chwys could do with a peg bolt, or maybe just a new peg. 

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 Si Witcher 25 Nov 2022
In reply to mrjonathanr:

Hi, yes, for background refer to the summary doc I presented at the Cymru N Wales BMC Area Meeting last month: https://community.thebmc.co.uk/GetFile.ashx?did=3899. There was a full range of views expressed on the topic.

There are plenty of precedents now for replacing old hammered pegs on trad routes in North Wales with drilled/glued runners e.g. Citadel on Main Cliff, Chicama (E9) at Treaddur Bay, Rhoscolyn, Clogwyn yr Adar, Castell Cidwm etc. You may have clipped one or two on Quickstep at Forwyn.

Regarding Tremadog, specific routes mentioned for discussion include Swift Undercut and Llanberries which both rely on old pegs and don't get any traffic now the pegs are knackered, so what to do? Replace with hammered pegs, remove the pegs and re-climb without, or drill and glue a longer-lasting runner that could last 50 years - to be discussed...

Post edited at 08:57
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In reply to Si Witcher:

AFAIK Llanberries hasn't had a second ascent, swift undercuts pegs are probably shot, but an actual assessment of the available trad gear needs to take place because there is gear on the route.

I climbed black is beautiful at llanymynech the other day, there are plenty of gear options next to the glued pegs, likewise is the case for some of the Adar routes. Its getting a bit out of hand imo (unfortunately wasn't able to make the last meeting).

Post edited at 09:59
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 Ed Booth 25 Nov 2022
In reply to Alex Rileyidn't know there were now pegs in the break in Black is Beautiful. I has seen your video of falling, and was impressed by your unphased approach jumping onto the shallow cam placements that i remember. Changes it now if you sayign they are glued pegs? 

Do we know who has placed them?

In reply to Ed Booth:

Its a good old leap and feels pretty spicy but is pretty safe (although I think I might top rope it first next time after two big lobs haha).

We had a good totem cam in the break alongside the peg and you could realistically get 3-4 in the break to hedge your bets if the peg wasn't there. The low peg area is also protectable with care.

No idea who placed them.

Tom - I don't mind them occasionally, but you should go and look at some of the routes listed in the doc and tell me they are really needed.  That's the main problem. Agree about tat and rope litter.

Post edited at 10:30
 Ed Booth 25 Nov 2022
In reply to Alex Riley:

yes i remember having lots of pegs in when I did it which was enough for me to reluctantly commit to the pop crux move, but i would have been pretty unkeen to just do a test jump.

 duncan 25 Nov 2022
In reply to Tom Ripley:

> Chwys could do with a peg bolt, or maybe just a new peg. 

In reply to Si Witcher:

> There are plenty of precedents now for replacing old hammered pegs on trad routes in North Wales with drilled/glued runners e.g. Citadel on Main Cliff, Chicama (E9) at Treaddur Bay, Rhoscolyn, Clogwyn yr Adar, Castell Cidwm etc. You may have clipped one or two on Quickstep at Forwyn.

> Regarding Tremadog, specific routes mentioned for discussion include Swift Undercut and Llanberries which both rely on old pegs and don't get any traffic now the pegs are knackered, so what to do? Replace with hammered pegs, remove the pegs and re-climb without, or drill and glue a longer-lasting runner that could last 50 years - to be discussed...

In reply to Ed Booth:

> Didn't know there were now pegs in the break in Black is Beautiful. I has seen your video of falling, and was impressed by your unphased approach jumping onto the shallow cam placements that i remember. Changes it now if you sayign they are glued pegs? 

Can we stop calling them pegs or runners? If the placement is drilled and the metalwork is glued then it is a bolt whatever it may look like at first glance. Call them p-bolts if you absolutely insist on differentiating them from the commercial products available to fill drilled holes.

1
 Ed Booth 25 Nov 2022
In reply to duncan:

I suppose they are just bolts so I'm happy to go with that, I think whoever is placing them needs to be questioned. I'm aware of one main protagonist but assume it's not a lone venture. 

 Ed Booth 25 Nov 2022
In reply to Alex Riley:

Twid has a log of Llanberies ... but with no style so don't know if that is led or not. Seem to recall James Pearson tried it, don't know if he finished it or not.

In reply to everyone:

Hi All,

In order to keep this thread focussed on Tremadog I've created a separate thread for the Pegbolts discussion: https://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/rock_talk/pegbolts-754307

Whilst Si's initial reference to pegs/pegbolts was indeed relevant to Tremadog, most of those that followed weren't, so if you wish to discuss these other crags - or pegbolts/fixed gear in general - please do so there.

I know I've spoken out about pegbolts previously and, much like Si, am concerned about their spread and placement, as well as the complete lack of transparency regarding their placement. I'd also echo Duncan's sentiments about exactly what they are, because if they're drilled and glued (which they are) then they're certainly not pegs - they're bolts.

Post edited at 11:34
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 steveriley 25 Nov 2022
In reply to rachelpearce01:

Nothing to add, but appreciate the time people put into us all having a better time. Thanks also to those calmly clarifying the state of fixed gear.

 JonesE 25 Nov 2022
In reply to Tom Ripley:

The peg on Chwys can be backed up by a small nut. Took me ages to get it out so its a good placement.

In fact, I'd say the peg should be removed as its right where you need to hold to do the rockover and is too tempting to use as aid even though the leader really would rather not want to do that.

Maybe a bit of a clean of the ivy to the right of the peg is necessary as it might reveal some additional placements.

 Ed Booth 25 Nov 2022
In reply to rachelpearce01:

I'm under the impression Psyche 'n' Burn has succumed to the overgrowth and could be worthy of the list

In reply to Ed Booth:

Good shout (shall I peg bolt it whilst I'm at it 😂)

4
In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

Thanks rob ! I was a bit disappointed to see it start to turn into a peg bolt debate. !

In reply to Ed Booth:

Thanks Ed, keen to try that too

 George_Surf 25 Nov 2022
In reply to Ed Booth:

psyche n burn is really clean but I think maybe the start gets brambly each year, you know the area as soon as you leave the Vulcan stance? The pegs on it were replaced at some stage, or at least the low ones (and moved slightly maybe?) possibly around 2000-2005? Tom had a go when he was over this way before the summer. Pant Ifan needs its own festival!…

In reply to George_Surf:

The path up to there isn't great, but it's SSSI private land so any tidying needs to be minimalist 

 Andy Moles 25 Nov 2022
In reply to Alex Riley:

> There won't be any drilling or gluing if I'm around.

I've got an image of you standing at the car park demanding bags be turned out and frisking people for drill bits.

In reply to rachelpearce01:

Once the time being has passed, or if you're open to including nearby crags,  Carreg Bengam Bach isn't horrific but would really benefit from a spring clean. Small crag with a very high concentration of great looking lines there in danger of being reclaimed by nature.

In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

All the routes I've climbed there have been pretty clean to be honest, although I haven't done everything. I think the idea of this thread is to help get a list together for a work party next year specifically for BYM.


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