UKH

The BMC RAD has been updated recently https://www.thebmc.co.uk/modules/RAD/View.aspx?id=313 to include this statement : The woods are owned and managed for low volume timber extraction (mostly birch). The new owner (as of 2023) has no objection to climbing along the length of the edge.  Does this mean the area right Altar Crack area is now "In"?

Yes, that's correct.

Dannyboy83 can you update the crag listing please.

The other change to the RAD is that owner has asked that climbers approach the crag from the left rather than direct to the Needle area. So just after the path veers right away from the wall on the way up from the road, go left/straight on, a few metres before a small footbridge. Go right over the stream just below edge level to reach Birch Buttress. This is slightly longer and more arduous, but not a bad swap for some extra climbing on balance.

Anyone know how worthwhile the newly unlocked climbing is? I've visited Rivelin quite a few times but never been past Altar Crack.

Would it be worth putting this on a laminated sign or something on the way in (since most use the same approach from the dam)? I'm sure people will be happy to take the long way.........if they know about it.

It's quite short and spread out, with nothing that looks amazing. That said it's the same great rock as the rest of the crag and looks nice enough. The obvious blank sharp left arete of a slab about half way along is a great 6B+ highball and there's a nice 6C overhanging bookend prow not far right again.

I think I'll put a little post and roudel on the junction for the climber's approach as it's not super obvious.

Unless I've miss under stood your directions turning up into the woods before the stream (as you would if approaching Rivelin quarries) to reach the left side of the crag first is a best a very minor path and once near the edge involves crossing a large area of very boggy ground (basically the steam higher up) which is often unpassable in winter. Given the large established path people have being using for years I can't see many people doing as requested unless a path is developed.

Had looked round previously but took another look before work this morning.

Personally I though there is little opportunity for new development beyond the climbs listed in the BMC guide and it sounds like most of the best obvious gaps have previously been climbed under the radar judging by the previous post. There are a few ok looking if occasionally a little dirty routes which once cleaned will make nice additions to the Rivelin circuit on a cold blustery day when the crag is at its best. At the moment the paths between the buttress are very overgrown so traveling between them along the bottom is arduous. The first buttress is only just right of the Alter Crack area.

Why not just have a waymarked path ?

Would only require white painted posts and or arrow markers. 

Not all climbers read RAD before visiting a crag. Following an established path is to be expected, it needs to be obvious to all. 

more photos as couldn't post any more

Sounds sensible but if it means getting wet feet just before you get to the crag its going to be a difficult ask. A complication is going straight on across the bridge is the approach listed in every guidebook as well as being a public right of way to start with so is always going be well worn and can't be blocked off.

I might be barking up the wrong tree here and obviously understand the landowner will have their reasons - but it seems a little counterintuitive to me to ask climbers to use a different approach that has previously had little use vs the current established path most people take to the Needle that is mostly a public right of way? Just thinking more impact will be created on the area by bashing out this new path than sticking to the current one? 

Appreciate the work from the BMC though on this and the opening up of the other areas by the landowner. 

Yes, the photos of the 6B+ and 6C are correct.

Re the approach path. If you look on the 1:25,000 OS map there is precedent for requesting we come in that way as there's a marked path going up just east of the wall. There isn't a marked path approaching the path more directly off the PROW to reach the Needle.

I'm not sure why he's keen on this, but given the agreement to open the RH side I didn't think it was worth pushing back too hard at the time.

If you follow the path all the way up to the edge line (easier if you briefly detour onto the west side of the wall near the top) there is an easy and un-boggy crossing point in the stream. The path looks to be fairly well used already, maybe by climbers going between edge and quarry.

I've already asked the owner about organising a bit of path clearance work. Both to improve the main approach and open up the righthand end. I haven't heard back yet though.

There is already a path (Quarry approach) and it's shown on the map. Fuller explanation in above reply.

Have you climbed this prow?

Ps have done the loop round on the path you mention above, and when i was working things in both the quarries and the edge a few years ago I improved the path between the two as it was particularly difficult with overhanging branches when carrying pads, I have seen local dog walkers using it too, i guess climbers will have to get used to the longer approach.

Great news. Any update on the car park over the dam wall being available until dusk in summer? I think Lady Margaret was looking into this possibility

No, I saw that way off at the very far right of the crag but haven't climbed on. There were some goats there at the time!

I haven't asked about the carpark closure time, but could look into.

The traditional approach branching off the PROW later on and striking off directly up towards the needle has been in continuous use for so long that perhaps it ought to be a PROW in its own right.  There is still time for it to become one, and I think it meets the conditions quite easily.  (Essentially 20+ years of continuous use by the public unchallenged by the landowner.) 

I wonder if that's what the new owner has in mind and is looking to prevent by challenging the use of the traditional path now, and seeking to direct people to use a path that is clearly concessionary instead.

Hi Sam & Jon. I have looked into this with Yorkshire Water (alongside one of the local clubs), but the issues with anti-social behaviour in the car park seem to have been significant and there is a reluctance to extend the opening times on a regular basis for climbers. We're talking to them about some options for club visits, but I'd assume that when the car park reopens it will be back to the usual closing times in the evenings.

There is parking for two or three cars in the small layby just outside the car park. 

Good to know that the landowner is happy for climbing to extend past Altar Crack - great work Jon. I think Graeme has a point about people avoiding the boggy path. Getting some path work done this winter before the car park reopens could be helpful if the landowner really doesn't want people using the old path. Maybe a couple of the local clubs might be willing to organise a workparty?

Thanks for the update 👍

The 'usual closing times' were significantly shortened when the car park finally re-opened towards the end of the pandemic.  It used to be 8am-6pm in the winter and 8am-8pm in the summer (as opposed to 8am-6pm year round).

More to the point, prior to the gate and the gateposts being replaced they usually closed the gate but didn't actually lock it.  (They 'dummy' locked it by looping the chain around the stone gatepost, so that anyone 'locked' in could simply let themselves out.  And for many years that was apparently quite sufficient to deter 'antisocial behaviour'.)

The current wooden gateposts are new, and it's only since they were installed that people have been finding themselves genuinely locked in.  I had a bizarre conversation by email with Yorkshire Water with someone who was clearly under the impression that as long as you arrived before closing time you could still simply let yourself out after the gate was closed.  (Which made me wonder whether that was something more like an actual policy than the informal arrangement I'd always assumed it was.)

During that conversation they also told me that they haven't actually had problems with antisocial behaviour at all recently, but take that as evidence that locking the gate is working and therefore they should continue doing it.

Here's a direct quote from an email I received from them last year:

Perhaps it might be a good idea to include the Sheffield & Rotherham Wildlife Trust in any discussions about the car park, as they manage the Wyming Brook and Fox Hagg nature reserves.  (Though obviously not if you're just trying to negotiate some special arrangement for your climbing club.)

Maybe it'd be worth suggesting the padlock being replaced with a combination lock, with the number being a sort of open secret as works tolerably well elsewhere, so that climbers and birdwatchers can then arrive before closing time and leave when they please as always used to be the case.

It was being locked as I arrived this evening, there were about 6 cars parked outside the house at the end of the road instead. 

I followed the new approach this evening. The point were you exit the path just before the bridge isn't obvious at all because of the vegetation, but this is limited and could easily be resolved. Beyond this the path is more established but faint as far as the gap in the wall to access Rivelin Quarry, this would become more distinct with regular use. Beyond that the vegetation its so high the path does not exist despite it being marked on the OS map therefore you are forced left not where the path is shown on the map into the quarry (near Woozle Direct) but perhaps importantly on land under different ownership? Could this cause a different access problem? After this you can follow a path with a few rocky steps which leads up and right onto the top of the crag where you can cross the stream. Now you need to negotiate one of the decent gullies with your pack on to get to the climbing, many particularly round the needle area are not easy to decend and could lead to unnecessary accidents 

Unfortunately unless the situation in the path improves I think we need to be realistic about the chances of people bothering to follow the new approach.

The photo below shows the point where the path breaks left into the quarry and the way marked on the OS map is blocked by vegetation and there is no easy way to get to Birch buttress just hidden in the trees to the right directly.

Apologies, I should have said current (not usual) opening times - ie closing at 6pm all year round. Also for clarity, I'm an area access rep, not a club member, it's just one of the clubs has been involved on this one.

Thanks for posting the replies you got from YW, that reflects what they've been saying to us. I agree something like a combination lock would be good, but there are some particular circumstances with this car park that make things like that difficult.

SWRT don't seem to have any influence on the car park, other than closing it to use for felling machinery!

Intriguing.  (But I think I can guess.)

I'm not surprised to hear they have no influence, and don't actually know what their attitude is but they represent a lot of users of that car park besides climbers.  People whose quiet enjoyment of the countryside Yorkshire Water also have a statutory duty to facilitate so far as they're reasonably able.  I wasn't suggesting an appeal to them to use their 'influence' so much, more that it might be an idea to make it a common cause with them in the hope that arguments to improve access might carry more weight coming from a bigger and more diverse group of people.

I don't think anyone is less happy than the Wildlife Trust themselves about the necessity to fell those trees btw, it's quite heartbreaking for them.

I'm not sure which way you went after crossing the wall, but you mustn't have spotted the recently cut way through the holly where the wall meets the crag bottom. Once back on the crag side of the wall you're within a few steps of the 'path' which takes you to the easy stream crossing. No need to access via the crag top. This seemed like a decent temporary solution at least.

In time it will be preferable to have a cleared way staying on the crag side of the wall.

I think I went as you described through a gap between the crag base and the holly, with a recently trimmed stump, assuming this was right I either went wrong after that or it isn't obvious. After passing through the holly gap the path rises up to cross the stream level with the top of the crag. 

Will probably use this approach more often as is a good way to get to the top of the crag and if you know where to drop down it would be a faster way to get to Alter Crack area.

However for most users I can see them trying this on the way up and then going the normal way on the way down and for future visits.

Will take another look in a few days time and make some effort to clear the start of this approach to make it more obvious by removing some of the vegetation.

It's great that the new owner is so accommodating. I'd agree with other posts though that some expectation management might be required given how close the PRoW is to where people are trying to get to, and what the approach description says in everyone's guidebook. It's going to be a pretty hard public education campaign. Were there very strong feelings about it? Will it be a massive source of friction when people use the established path?

Yes, I highlighted these points.

It was his clearly expressed wish that people use this approach. I agree it will take time to establish a new line of approach and not everyone may follow it. Only time will tell if this causes friction.

That's the gap Graeme. If you stay at the same level for a few metres on the other side you quickly intercept the up path.