UKH

When are we going to get Joe's story? Without it there is a huge gap in the history of British mountaineering and climbing. For those who climbed in the fifties and sixties Brown was a huge inspiration.

Is there some problem in finding the most appropriate person to do the job? Unlike Whillans ,who was much more controversial, Brown kept a much lower profile and seemed far less outspoken.

Lets hope we'll see it in 2024.  Fingers crossed.

In reply to tutbury:

Its all in his Autobiography ?

https://www.needlesports.com/Catalogue/Books-Media/Other-Books-Media/Biogra...

In reply to muppetfilter:

I was thinking the same unless there's something else we need to hear about?

In reply to muppetfilter:

wasn't that published in the mid 1960s ? maybe he did a little after then (or has there been a revised edition)

In reply to Doug:

Looking at my copy , first printed in 1967 

In reply to tutbury:

I think Jim Perrin toyed with the idea but I'm not sure anything came of it. Shame. Unless anyone knows different.

In reply to tutbury:

I believe his daughter Zoe was working on the biography with Joe before he died. 

In reply to muppetfilter:

I think there's a lot more we can learn from a good biography. We get a much more complete picture.

In reply to pasbury:

He would have been my first thought. 

In reply to DaveHK:

Dennis Grey Shirley...

I recall being gobsmacked by how utterly dull and plodding The Hard Years was compared to Dennis' two tomes... at least one of which seemed to cover a lot of similar ground.

Dennis' writing was excellent.

PS. Sorry if I've missed an obvious reason Dennis can't do it 

In reply to TheGeneralist:

Have you read Todhra?

He is 88?

In reply to TheGeneralist:

I agree. I thought The Hard Years made a very interesting story seem dull. 

Agreed, a really great guy and raconteur as well, I had the pleasure of his company in Glencoe 30-odd years ago when he stayed with us. 

If there has to be a Joe Brown bio I'd like it to be written by multiple authors including people who knew him outside of climbing, like his fly fishing mates. Whether he would have cared to have his private life posthumously recorded for us unwashed to read is another matter.

Late 80s and I think he's sadly in poor health.

In reply to tutbury:

I read the Hard Years in th mid 70s when I was a youth and found it totally inspiring. I think contemporary writing would find it hard to capture the time and situation of the 50’s and 60s

In reply to pasbury:

I get the impression from his writings that Joe is the nearest Jim comes to having a climbing hero. He may admire him too much to be properly objective as a biographer (something he may freely admit?), and anyway, flawed characters make more interesting material for writers, so you can see why he chose Whillians over Brown.

In reply to Michael Gordon:

Yes that was my understanding, but I wouldn't say that the 'good guys' can't be good and interesting material for a biographer. I think with Joe the part he continued to play in the N Wales scene long after the glory days would be really interesting.

In reply to Mark Kemball:

I'd forgotten about that. I'd hope that even if she can't complete it that the material could be used by somebody else because contemporaries of Joe for first hand accounts of the early days are getting pretty thin on the ground...

In reply to Michael Gordon:

I still think it would be a real shame if we didn't get a biography. I personally found the Brown biography dull. I personally think Mick Ward would do an excellent job. He writes well and his background knowledge of the the post war climbing scene is second to none.

In reply to pasbury:

The more I read about Joe Brown the more I think what an extraordinary character he was. The self deprecatory tone of his 'autobiography' really hides the magnitude of his achievements, not least given his unquestionably impoverished background, and also hides the paradigm shifting nature of his contribution from the late 40s right through to the mid 60s. Sure, there were others who 'pulled something out of the bag' occasionally - but he seems to have been doing it week in, week out- and although patently aware of his status (how could he not have been?) still seems to have been doing it ... for fun. And when it wasn't fun, such as embarking on long, dangerous alpine routes, he didn't bother to do it. The picture on the back of the CC handbook says it all ... he's on the top pitch of Tensor, totally relaxed, with a big grin on his face, just happy being there.

Dennis Gray seems to have had two good goes at capturing the nature of the man and they're worth reading; and there's a lot about him in the biography of Patey, One Man's Legacy. This has a 'warts and all' description of quite a few 60s/70s stars; Brown comes out with his reputation entirely intact.

When I started climbing in the late 60s he was still a hero to us, despite the sniping of the 60s stars like Boysen and Crew, and the newer generation of high achievers such as Rouse, Littlejohn, Braithwaite and so on. So much so that when I found myself having a pee next to him in the urinals of the Padarn Lake Hotel, I completely dried up - so I've never been able to say 'I had a pee next to Joe Brown'! 

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Oh the joys of the Padarn Lake and playing darts with local superstars of the day.I read some comments by Allan Austin recently about Joe's climbing style compared with that of Whillans, who he thought was the best climber of the day at his best. But he could never quite fathom out how Brown got up a piece of rock. 

In reply to pasbury:

Jim Perrin's reputation has become problematic for some in recent years.

In reply to tutbury:

Were the comments themselves made recently by Allan? When I started getting out in the Dales climbing his name was everywhere on pretty much every crag. I haven't heard anything about him in a long time.

In reply to Lankyman:

I'm not sure, probably some years back, I think it was in some conversation with Dennis Grey. I never personally saw either Whillans or Brown climbing but watched Brown climbing on the big climbing outside broadcasts the BBC put on in the sixties. I can still hear Chris Brasher chatting to him, quite distinctive because he could never pronounce his r's. 

I think Austin had met Whillans and Brown when they occasionally ventured into his Yorkshire fiefdom. Very little got past Austin in the sixties. And that was the same in parts of the Lakes as well.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

I was fortunate enough to get to know Joe quite well over the years (from 1968 until shortly before his death). As well as being a visionary climber with an extraordinary eye for spotting routes up terrain that was considered impossible by most of his contemporaries, he was a very charming man. It was a very natural charm, combined with a very sharp intelligence. Very articulate despite his poor/minimal education. He was also very modest: in his house he had virtually no pictures of climbing (I don’t think there was a single picture of him climbing), just a big black & white high definition aerial photo of Kanchenjunga in the hallway, IIRC. 

The ‘big grin on his face’ while climbing I saw first-hand when I took pictures of him doing Right Unconquerable of my Peak book. By the time he reached the top he was beaming from ear to ear.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Maybe this is your moment Gordon?

In reply to tutbury:

You just beat me to it! Don't you think it's got your name all over it Gordon?!

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Aye, at the very least how about a nice coffee table book of him on his routes. Many great photographers have snapped him over the years.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

So pleased you got this photo although it would have been interesting to see a video and chat with him about this.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Trouble is, I’ve got no less than three major projects on at the moment (and into foreseeable future), and I’ve rather moved away cerebrally - if there’s such a word! - from climbing subjects, and have no plans to do a book on him. I will however be talking about him at some length in my childhood autobiography (the third of the aforementioned projects) .. my life up to the age of 22.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

You didn’t splash his shoe, then?

In reply to Rog Wilko:

I nearly killed his dog throwing stones into Twll Mawr, which the hound tried to chase.

In reply to Rog Wilko:

No - and if he'd splashed mine, I would have taken them off and framed them!

In reply to tutbury:I agree as my brother was inspired by Brown  and as I was guided by my brother for Whitch  I have much appreciation and having read the hard years if there are some missing stories I would love to read them but who will write it?

In reply to tutbury:

youtube.com/watch?v=dmEz2GLo_wM&