UKH

What’s happened? Seems to be a 3rd party provider now with astronomical prices compared to what we’ve paid in the past?

Anyone else not bothered with renewing their policy?

In reply to colinrobinson215:

When I search for BMC insurance the link goes straight to the RAD, which is odd. However, the google search page suggests that the BMC have stated that their insurance will be back up and running on the 24th July. I hope it is, I need to renew soon and have always found their cover good value and their service excellent.

In reply to colinrobinson215:

As per other thread, read the terms carefully. Nothing over 4500m and ambiguous at lower levels.

In reply to Ben Farley:

If you are doing it on your phone with the RAD app installed you may find that the app is hijacking all BMC links, you can avoid this by opening the link in incognito mode/ private browsing.

In reply to spenser:

Ah right, thanks Spenser

In reply to colinrobinson215:

It’s a joke. They wanted £1000 for 2 people in the USA for three weeks 

In reply to colinrobinson215:

Redundancies, deficits and now insurance down? Hope they're not on the brink

In reply to MG:

Actually in the dropdown there is an option for over 4500m although it's not listed on the activity sheet!  Also, they can't quote for this without a phone call.

In reply to MG:

While it is understandable to have higher premiums for the Greater Ranges, it does seem daft to have to split the Alps with a cut-off below the summit of Mont Blanc and a handful of other alpine peaks.

In reply to Robert Durran:

It's bizarre Other options are

"Climbing (cliff,ice) up to 2,000m"

"Climbing (up to 3,000m with ropes & or guides or bolted)"

I can well imagine that a claim for mountaineering would be rejected because you were using ropes.  So make sure you solo and don't use bolts or guides.

In reply to MG:

With a phone call they explain that they are happy to insure you above 4500m but Mont Blanc and its subsidiary peaks are excluded. They were unable to clarify how far out in to the MB massif they count peaks as subsidiaries… Maudit? Tacul?! Makes the whole offering useless for climbing from Cham!

In reply to Tom Green:

They are making it up aren't they!?  

Would recommend Snowcard instead, it’s cheaper and more flexible and claims are quick and easy. I haven’t used my BMC insurance for ages as it’s always so much more expensive 

In reply to echo34:

We had to claim with Snowcard in 2014 and they were brilliant. This year we've an annual policy with BMC - bought before all this mess kicked off. 

Sounds like we will be back to Snowcard from next year. 

In reply to colinrobinson215:

I renewed ours earlier in the year when the normal cover, prices still existed. From the comments here seems we will be going back to Snowcard  next year. 

In reply to colinrobinson215:

It doesn't inspire confidence does it? BMC insurance used to be excellent, and it was one of the things they used to promote membership. It also made them a surplus. Why are they now directing us to a site of this nature? 

My worry (well one of them) is that I have to pick up to 10 activities from a lengthy list, most of them not related to climbing If I inadvertently fail to pick one does that mean I'm not covered? For example, if I find I have to abseil into a climb, or to get off it, is that part of rock climbing or must I have include abseiling as a separate activity? Also their premiums are astronomical, a quote for sport climbing in Europe was more than £100 higher than what the BMC cost me in April.

If this is the new BMC insurance I'll be looking elsewhere. What are they thinking?

In reply to colinrobinson215:

I've never taken up insurance with the BMC as have always found better packages elsewhere. In fact when I was getting a quote for a expedition in Kyrgyzstan they didn't even get back to me. Not sure why they push it so much as there never seems to be enough cover to suit most peoples aspirations, or if they do the cost is twice as much.

In reply to colinrobinson215:

This seems like another issue the BMC aren't being honest or upfront about.  "Our systems are down" was what I was told.  I can't help thinking this must be linked to their financial mismanagement in some way.  The insurance re-selling has always been a big money spinner for them.  

In reply to philipjardine: that’s taking conspiracy theory with hunt a bit far ? If the insurance is no longer it would be due to the underwriters over which the BMC is likely to have very little influence, irrespective of its financial management

In reply to colinrobinson215:

incidentally the BMC insurance has always come from a "3rd party provider". They have had quite a number over the years.  Basically the BMC buys "travel insurance" (usually in the end underwritten by a Lloyds syndicate) and sells it to BMC members at a profit.  Since the companies that provide the insurance have varied over the years so has the experience of those claiming (sometimes it has been very poor).  

In reply to kevin stephens:

I suspect they tried to get a cheaper deal on the insurance, the company said no and now they are casting around for an alternative at the last minute.  Its important for them to squeeze every last penny of profit out of it.

In reply to colinrobinson215:

2022 annual report: the BMC made just under half a million pounds/year profit from selling insurance to us.

In reply to philipjardine: so making assumptions with no foundation at all to put the boot in? It seems more likely that underwriters in general are taking a much more risk averse approach to what they view as dangerous activities. There has been lots of useful debate and analysis of known information regarding the BMC here on UKC. Your baseless accusations will just do more damage

In reply to philipjardine:

Not just a money spinner...to the point where it is operationally reliant on commission on sales hwich they have no control over. Its a very speculative way to fund a a national governing body and wages.

In reply to philipjardine:

The difference is that previously the BMC had negotiated tailored packages which reflected typical types of climbing holiday. Now it seems we are expected to put our own package together from a lengthy list, one which suggests the provider doesn't really understand climbing, and at much higher premiums.

Perhaps it's just a coincidence that this has happened at the same time as an apparent financial crisis at the BMC.

In reply to Howard J:

It's notable that the AAC.cover has been stable and (I think) with the same underwriters.for years. It's also a good price and a sensible cover level for Europe, at least. It's clearly possible.

Had to go elsewhere as, after trying a couple of times a few weeks ago, BMC didn't have medical screening available (no idea whether they do now - I've always bought per trip rather than annual). Ironic that on my first actual mountaineering trip they weren't available. I've gone with Snowcard; no idea what they'll be like yet, but I did appreciate that they just told me they wouldn't cover my medical conditions, rather than making me take time out of work to call up, go through a complex dance of remembering every hospital appt and medicine change over the last year like the BMC did, to then just say they wouldn't cover it. I did think 100 quid for a week with Snowcard was pretty steep but this is my first time mountaineering rather than climbing or trekking so can't really compare prices.

In reply to philipjardine:

Yep. When I called their medical screening line a few weeks ago they sent me back to call the BMC, who said they'd have it back up within a day. Clearly not. Obviously I'm totally hypothesising but presumably a contract somewhere has gone kaput... 

In reply to ashtond6:

You were lucky.!   I got quoted £1300 for 2 people in Canada for three weeks.

Total BS.  Had to select my activity from a list which included Alligator Wrestling, Cage Fighting and.... Bowls. So, not exactly the bespoke policy provision you used to get!  

SnowCard quoted half that price, which is still a decent chunk of cash...

First time I've ever not used BMC Insurance travelling abroad. 

In reply to colinrobinson215:

Interesting, not really sure how this works (and I have no inside knowledge/connection) but I'm thinking that the BMC perhaps normally offer bespoke packages in the way we are accustomed to (rock, alpine, etc.) but are having some kind of technical difficulty. So in the meantime refer everyone to their supplier as a fallback, who perhaps don't offer quite the same categories of cover.

Looks like a bit of a situation but I guess it will be interesting to see whether things are more or less back to normal after 24 July.

For what it's worth, I'm not that surprised that US premiums are so high at the moment. Not so many people travelling since COVID (although I'm sure this is now changing) and fewer people buying insurance I am sure. And inflation has gone up and medical costs in the US can easily hit a million dollars or more for a single claim in extreme cases, even for sub-alpine/multipitch. Especially given that the BMC packages do (or at least used to), I believe, include skiing as well which is not exactly renowned for its cheap medical bills when things go wrong.

In reply to colinrobinson215:

Last week I headed onto the BMC website to get a quote for insurance for a forthcoming trip.  Got redirected to a third party site which was a massive pain to use, and didn’t appear to offer what I wanted.

Other half got that site to work for him, but quote was massive, so we went with Snowcard instead.  They offered what we needed, it was quick and easy to use and we now have our policy prior to leaving later this week.

Middle of summer is not a great time for an organisation to have insurance policy issues.

In reply to kevin stephens:

fair points.  maybe the BMC can just tell us what the truth is?

In reply to philipjardine: yes that would be good

In reply to kevin stephens:

My guess is that the exact product bundle they are reselling is not available directly from the underwriter’s website, so it can’t be purchased while the BMC’s own insurance site is down.

In reply to Alkis:

If it were simply a question of the website being down they could ask us to call their insurance broker to purchase the tailored products.  Instead we are being directed to a site which appears on the face of it to be unsuitable in many ways.  If in future the BMC will not be offering its tailored insurance packages I for one will probably be looking elsewhere, and that will mean a loss of revenue for the BMC.

I hope this is indeed just temporary and normal service will soon be restored. Nevertheless this is concerning, especially in the light of everything else which is going on.

In reply to Howard J:

There is a very good chance that their broker uses the same system. The real issue here, yet again, is a lack of clarity and transparency, which has become a bit of an unfortunate pattern.

In reply to colinrobinson215:

I gave up with them years ago just about pre pandemic, they kept putting the price of our Ski and Alpine cover up year on year with no justification, what started out as a £250 annual policy was £500 odd at last renewal, i just use Snowcard for each trip now.

In reply to colinrobinson215:

I used to use BMC insurance. Had to claim on them once, many years ago - and they were brilliant.

I'd love to support the BMC by buying insurance through them. But it just has stopped being viable. And the reason has been the kids:

I love my skiing, especially touring and long distance Nordic cross country. Piste skiing much less so. But when you have kids, it's what you get to do (most of the time). And when you have kids, they are going to want to go to the snowpark and play on the jumps and such. But the BMC won't insure such activities. I was told it was 'niche' and outside core mountaineering practice. Apparently I should have bought BMC insurance and then gone to a specialist ski provider for additional cover for the snowpark. So I went to Snowcard, who would insure the snowpark for the kids (provided they weren't doing inverted tricks, which let's face it, an 8 year old and a 6 year old are unlikely to try).

I've spoken to friends who have had similar experiences. I just got the feeling that no-one at the BMC actually understood that a decent proportion of their market for annual insurance was for families - and it needed to take account of what kids want to do too.

Let's face it, I could have:

1. Got BMC insurance and then paid extra for ski insurance to cover the snow park.

2. Said "No kids, you can't go to the snowpark because you are not insured" or

3. Gone to Snowcard.

It's the BMC's loss, because I have been buying annual family cover for 17 years now! Thankfully the kids have stopped playing in the snowpark. They've realised there is more fun in multipitch trad, alpinism, ice climbing and steep back country skiing!

In reply to colinrobinson215:

After a slightly worrying period where we were being directed to a site which didn't appear to offer very satisfactory range of cover, normal service now seems to have been resumed with the usual option of different packages for cragging, alpine etc. I haven't looked at them in detail to see whether they differ from what had been offered previously or whether the premiums have increased.

In reply to innes:

You will be gutted when you end up on a drunken night out cage fighting with an alligator and get injured!

In reply to stuartholmes:

Very possibly literally.

In reply to gooberman-hill:

While I understand your rationale, BMC pioneered insurance for climbers, climbing.  It could be argued Part of where things have gone wrong in the past to all our detriment is where essentially claims for non climbing activity by non practicing climbers, has resulted in large costs to the insurer which raise premiums.

IIRC the Antarctic cruise ship passenger recoveries where the casualties had taken out BMC insurance because the BMC covered older age groups.

When taking out BMC in the past you knew that you were covered for your climbing and mountaineering trip, and having known some of the BMC staff in the past I knew that on occasions they stepped in to help the insurer help climbers in trouble. It gave great peace of mind.

Id rather BMC got back to that modus operandi, if that means problems for kids, or vetting for age groups to ensure they were active and fit for their age and doing appropriate activities, then is that unreasonable?

In reply to ScraggyGoat:

I absolutely understand your perspective. Mountaineering should be at the heart of what the BMC does. And you are right. When I first went to the Alps in the mid 80s the BMC was the only place you could get climbing insurance. And I've had to use it once and it was brilliant.

But times change. I can now go to at least 3 providers potentially with varying degrees of quality, so there is competition in the market.

My original point was that I'm not convinced that the BMC Insurance fully understands it's market. There are a lot of climbers with families in the market for insurance. The BMC package when my kids were younger excluded mountain activities that would be common for a family with kids (the kids wanting to visit the snowpark). So for that reason, I and others I know went elsewhere for mountain insurance, when we would have preferred to have spent our money with the BMC.

Now, I may be wrong, and the BMC may have thought it all through carefully,  but from my perspective I'm not convinced that the BMC Insurance knows its market.

In reply to gooberman-hill:

I was always amused that my BMC insurance would cover me for a winter ascent of the Eiger North Face should I want to, but that I would have to pay a £20 supplement if I wanted to go snowboarding. Seemed jolly sensible to me.

In reply to colinrobinson215:

Blame Bear Grylls...

In reply to Tom F Harding:

I do.

In reply to philipjardine:

You are expecting the BMC to communicate with it's members?

How much have you followed BMC problems over the last few years?

Communication is not now and never has been part of their remit! They still obfuscate, even when other know the truth!

In reply to colinrobinson215:

i was unable to continue with continual annual family cover unless we paid over double the fees for different cover. This then meant to take alternative cover we had  to return to the UK. I've now used Snow Card and i would say the BMC communication was very poor and yet another example of the BMC hiding in the corner and ultimately weak leadership from the CEO at the top.

Does anyone know if the medical screening has returned? There was a while when you would ring up their screening provider listed on the website but they said they weren't offering it, and I note there's a still disclaimer on the site about people having to pay extra for medical conditions now... It would be a real shame if the BMC have only resumed their insurance for people with no health issues (surely, post-Covid, that can't be many of us).