UKH

All I know about BB is what everyone knows; he was killed by stonefall on the Eiger in 1962(?) and his companion narrowly rescued (possibly by Whillans and Bonington?), he did Neb Direct on wooden wedges, and the Tremadog guide historical section says of Vulcan, "It is reported that BB climbed this free, but it seems highly unlikely."

I've always remembered this last and thought it seems a bit harsh.

Anyway, suddenly I wake up and have this idea that somewhere I saw a magazine article about the history of a club BB was a member of, in which the author recites that BB was a brilliant technician and lists Vulcan among his ascents. Does this ring a bell with anyone, or did I make it up? Or does anyone know anything more about BB (Sutty, perhaps?)?

jcm

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

John, I've got a vague memory that Barry Brewster was in a club called the London Rockhoppers. Didn't he do an early ascent (3rd/4th?) of Vector (in bendy boots??) and Whillans (2nd ascentionist?) acerbically commented, "Another star popped onto the horizon..." or words to that effect.

I always thought his reported words on the Eiger, "I am sorry, Brian" were unutterably poignant.

A talented climber and a brave man.

Mick

In reply to Mick Ward:

What *was* a bendy boot, exactly? You often hear it said that people wore them. Is it one of those basketball-type boots? If so, I'd have thought bare feet would have been considerably more effective. I'm rather surprised there wasn't more bare-footed climbing before PAs.

Rockhoppers - now you say it, it could have been.

Never heard his reported last words. Very civil, as you say. Did they both get hit by stones, or only one? I remember photos of BN looking in a pretty bad way.

jcm

In reply to johncoxmysteriously: We always referred to every day vibram soled walking boots as bendy boots. I'm sure Mick will confirm that.

Al

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

As Al says, just walking boots. My first pair were Spanish fell-walking boots, no Vibram soles and no bloody grip either! I took a fall, soloing in them. It should have been fatal.

Back in those days, most climbers wore mountain boots ('cos rock-climbing was viewed as part of mountaineering). Few wore PAs. If you couldn't afford mountain boots, it was bendies!

I don't know if they were both hit. Agreed, Brian Nally looked in terrible shape, fighting the good fight, yes, but dreadfully shocked. No disrespect to him (quite the reverse) but he'd never have survived.

Wilson reckoned that Bonington and Whillans should have got the peacetime equivalent of the Victoria Cross (is it the George Medal?) for their efforts. Apparently the stonefall was really wild - like being under direct artillery fire. Going after Nally was, apparently, pretty much indistinguishable from going to your death. But they did.

So when folk slag off both of them for shortcomings, genuine or imaginery, this is something to bear in mind. When it really mattered, they were there, for Brian Nally.

Mick

In reply to Mick Ward:

Thanks Mick; sobering thoughts.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

John,

Isn't there something on this in Perrin's biography of Whillans? I think he profiles both Brewster and Nally to some extent (both quite favourably)

I'm sure/think I read something in there - though it may have been some other Eiger related book?

Regards,

Steve

In reply to SteveSBlake:

P226-227 in the Villain. He was a student at Bangor University.

Nally was hit on the head by a stone as well. It seems there is considerable animosity between Nally and Bonington, regarding disputed statements and a perception by Nally of a lack 'common humanity' in Bonington.

In reply to Mick Ward:

So what's the difference between 'mountain' and 'walking' boots? Stiffer soles with the former, I suppose. It must be a continuum rather than a sharp distinction, no?

I remember Joe in the Hard Years writing about having a hard time on Taurus in 'experimental footwear' (a pair of Vibrams). I'm not surprised.

jcm

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Just a continuum. Taurus in 'experimental footwear' (any footwear?) - the stuff of nightmares?

Interestingly Emmet Goulding (a kind of Irish Joe Brown) did his hardest stuff in big boots (second ascent of Pellagra, same aid as Brown) and, when he was going well, just couldn't get used to PAs.

Mick

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
When I started climbing (mid 70s)
Galibier RD Super Guides - mountain boots
Cheap walking boots - bendy boots (I had a model called 'Helvellyn' from I think Hawkins - very little stiffness in the sole, would be called a B1 boot in modern terminology)

In reply to Mick Ward:

I remember reading Jim Perrin somewhere saying that EG was very good. PAs must have been pretty rudimentary if they weren't better than big boots!

We did Finlandia in the Dolomites ths year (a classic put up in 1959 by a Finnish climber whose name escapes me at E2 or so). The team behind us was a Finnish team, who told us that the FA was 'Finland's Joe Brown' and that he was still new-routing today in his mid-seventies.

I wonder who France and/or Spain's Joe Brown was?!

jcm

In reply to Doug:

Blimey, really? I started in 1981 and 'everyone' had rock boots then.

I'd been hill-walking before then in something cheapish which had Vibram soles which I certainly wouldn't have called 'bendy', but perhaps a child's perspective is a bit different.

jcm

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

I think it's highly unlikely that Barry Brewster ever climbed Vulcan. The first (aided) ascent was done on 20 April 1962 by B. Wright & C. Goodey. Ron James and I did the second ascent on 6 Sept 1962. The route had not then been free climbed.

Brewster died on the Eiger between these two dates on 24/25 July 1962. See the article by Brian Nally "Suddenly all hell broke loose" in The Alpine Journal 1969 (accessible online).

Brewster was indeed a student at Bangor in the early 1960's, then University College of North Wales, before my time there. I believe the UCNW Mountaineering Club journals of that time may include pieces written by Brewster.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously: Had a pair of EBs as well, but remember lots of scrambling in bendy boots (often in poor weather), and later climbing in 'big boots' as training for the Alps

In reply to Frank Cannings:

>The route had not then been free climbed.

Why do you say that, Frank? I'm not doubting it, just curious.

It would be slightly interesting to know where this 'report' that BB had done it free came from.

jcm

In reply to johncoxmysteriously: I read somewhere that he was active at Craig y Forwen (new routes?) whilst a student at Bangor Normal College. (now U.C.N.W.)

In reply to Frank Cannings:

Here's Brian Nally.

http://www.alpinejournal.org.uk/Contents/Contents_1969_files/AJ%201969%2067...

Worth a read. Thanks for that.

jcm

In reply to johncoxmysteriously: Thats even more harrowing and heart renching than what Harrer wrote.

Its unbelievable to think that rockfall like that was an accepted part of climbing the route years ago.

Heroism was worth more back then i guess?

Will

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:


In those days there was a very tight-knit group of climbers in N.Wales mostly based on Joe Brown and Llanberis or around the two major mountaineering schools - Plas y Brenin and Ogwen Cottage. Ron James was chief instructor at Og Cott. The development of hard routes at Tremadoc was still in its early days in 1962 and the number of ascents of each of the harder routes there was mostly in single figures and was known about from the pub banter etc. Star routes had only recently been climbed e.g. Nimbus (Jun 61 Joe Brown & Colin Goodey), The Plum (Dec 61 Ron James & Dave Yates). Many of the now classic Tremadoc routes had yet to be climbed.

Vector still had a peg for aid to gain the ochre slab and another on pitch 3 when the 1966 Climbers' Club "Snowdon South" guide was published and the same in Crew & Harris's 1970 "Tremadoc Area" guide. It's now free at E2 5c despite no aid and a lot of polish.

Wright with Colin Goodey fully aided Vulcan (15 points stated in North Wales Rock) in April 62 and Ron James and I also used aid on the second ascent in Sept 62 so there was no free ascent then. Vulcan is now rated E3 (possibly E4) and 6a - far above the free climbing standard of 1962 when 2 points of aid still existed on an E2 5c classic like Vector? In my view Ron Fawcett's 1977 free ascent must be the first - 15 years after Brewster's death.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously: Sutty says "Remember meeting him at Castell Cdwm once and him running up the hard routes. Whillans said they were very competent, just unlucky. Think his name is in the guide books. If they do a search, his name is in previous threads http://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/t.php?t=450444&v=1%23x6307686 http://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/t.php?t=373616&v=1%23x5420710. boje is the person to ask, think he lives in oz."

gbpcg

In reply to Will Sim:

>Its unbelievable to think that rockfall like that was an accepted part of climbing the route years ago.

Isn't it now? I thought people took a lot of care to avoid it still.

jcm

In reply to Will Sim:

I agree. It tears you to pieces.

Mick

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

The rescue of Brian Nally by Whillans and Bonington is recounted in considerable detail by Bonington in 'I Chose to Climb'. Very moving.

In reply to Frank Cannings:

That is one of the saddest things I've read.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:


Is this what you remembered in your dream?

http://www.calmandfearless.com/blog/2009-12-17_____vulcan-bomber

Colin Goodey is obviously the person to ask?

In reply to Doug: Hawkins Walkins we used to call them,my mate climbed up to what would now be E2 back in the 60,s in Desert Boots swore by them

In reply to Frank Cannings:

It wasn't, but very interesting all the same. Thank you.

I don't suppose anyone has an email address for Colin Goodey, do they?

jcm

In reply to Frank Cannings:

A better-informed person than I tells me that the 2010 Tremadog guide, in the Historical (at p.33) has a verbatim quote from Colin Goodey which certainly makes it sound as though CG actually witnessed a free ascent by BB. Apparently in 1970 the guide recorded a free ascent by BB (though the 1966 guide and Crew/Harris didn't mention it), and only with Mike Mortimer in 1978 did 'it seems very unlikely' creep in.

Curiously the FA section still gives it to Fawcett, though.

The CG quote says that BB climbed it with only the pegs for runners and suggests that there were quite a lot of them, since it recalls BB not bothering to clip all of them as there were so many. How many pegs would there be in these routes at that time, then? I always imagined they got taken out by the second and reused. No? Did you find 15 pegs or whatever in situ?! It seems a bit unlikely.

jcm

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

I was avoiding mention of Trevor Jones inconsistent 1970 “Snowdon South” guidebook. It was the first CC guide up against direct commercial competition, the Crew & Harris West Col guide, and was finished off in a frantic rush to beat the opposition to the bookshelves. I critically reviewed it in Mountain 12 (Nov 1970, also p.33). I had advance info on the Crew/Harris work. A pertinent extract: “One of the main differences between this work (i.e. Snowdon South) and that of West Col will be the amount of aid described as necessary”.

The List of 1st Ascents attributes Vulcan to B Wright & C Goodey with the note “Climbed free by B. Brewster”. Why didn’t Jones therefore describe it as a free route? In contrast the 1st ascent of The Bastion HVS, 1959 by C Davies & B Wright again, notes “Originally this was a peg route. It was first climbed free in 1961 by Barry Brewster”. Jones describes this as a completely free route yet Crew & Harris still describes it as an aided variation to Nifl-Heim. I believe that Jones was including hearsay remarks not checked out because of the rush to beat West Col. There are other examples not relevant here. The 1966 CC guide, published 4 years after Brewster’s death, describes both Vulcan and The Bastion as aided routes, with no mention of Brewster.

I think the key point is that well established procedures existed for recording new routes and variations. At that time routes were generally written up in CC Hut log books, or descriptions sent to the current guidebook editor or author. They were published annually in the CCJ and in other club journals, including UCNW MC. There have been examples of written evidence coming to light many years on, such as the diaries of Donald Romanis which clearly described his early ascents in Cornwall in the 1920’s notably the 3-star Diff Alison Rib. Brewster would have been aware of this process so without documentary support the claims should be classed as hearsay and not included.

It’s now 49 years ago that I did Vulcan with Ron James so I couldn’t swear there were NO in-situ pegs, especially as Ron led. There was definitely not 15 and probably less than 2 and many aid points were nuts not pegs. If Ron ever reads UKC threads he may be able to give more info. Aid routes were de-pegged by the second – too expensive not to!

Brewster was clearly a talented rock climber and he’s been listed along with Crew, Ingle, Soper and Boysen in the nucleus of young climbers repeating harder climbs of the day. If he led Vulcan free (E4 6a) in 1962 he’d have been climbing a least two grades harder than these other stars. It seems highly unlikely!

In reply to Frank Cannings:
Fascinating stuff.
A couple of thoughts.

Do you think someone like Allan Austin would have been capable of freeing Vulcan at that time? I notice that Wall of Horrors was done a year earlier, at a roughly similar very-demanding-E3 kind of grade. Was Austin climbing better in Yorkshire than the Welsh crew were climbing at Tremadoc?

Also, given the aid-elimination games that clearly went on at that time, there must have been loads of unconfirmed hearsay doing the rounds. It seems intuitive that some climbers wouldn't bother to document an aid reduction of e.g 1-2 pegs, even if it resulted in the whole route going free. Even if they did, would people really take any notice? You might be looking at a history of 5 or 10 improving efforts as aid was reduced - did anyone really care that much to record it all?

If anyone can produce a documented series of aid reductions for Vulcan, from the original (15 points?) to zero, I'd be very impressed indeed.

In reply to Frank Cannings:

>Brewster would have been aware of this process so without documentary support the claims should be classed as hearsay and not included

I don't know about that: if Colin Goodey actually witnessed a free ascent, that's the end of debate, isn't it?

And there are plenty of examples of course of people not following this protocol, certainly not following it punctually when they're focussed on a forthcoming trip to the Alps.

Strange account though; makes it sound like the gear was all in place and just had to be clipped.

>The List of 1st Ascents attributes Vulcan to B Wright & C Goodey with the note “Climbed free by B. Brewster”. Why didn’t Jones therefore describe it as a free route?

Well, I don't know, but of course plenty of things get into guidebooks at the last minute and resultant changes aren't made. What are you getting at? It sounds like you think Trevor Jones was wrong about The Bastion having been climbed free as well, so what significance does it have that in one case the route was described with aid and only the FA list describes a free ascent, and in the other case both are given as free?

Are you saying Crew and Harris actually made better historical checks?

Incidentally, when you say you and Ron J made the second ascent, presumably you don't mean to say that BB never did it at all, free or aid?

jcm

In reply to bullybones:

There's also the complication that at least some climbers at some points in history thought a peg was a peg and was aid whether used just for protection or directly to assist upward progress. One gets very different impressions from different people who were there about when and by whom this was considered to be the case. This muddies the waters no end.

jcm

In reply to johncoxmysteriously: One would have thought that if Brewster was capable of such a remarkable performance for his day he would make an appearance in the index of Trevor Jones' Welsh Rock, which he doesn't.

In reply to John2:

Well, presumably Trevor Jones thought BB was capable of such a performance if he put in his guidebook that BB had climbed Vulcan free, or are you suggesting that something had happened to change his mind before he wrote Welsh Rock?

Anyway, Frank reckons that at the time BB's name was bracketed with Boysen, Ingle, etc, in terms of ability. So presumably him not being in Welsh Rock was just the sort of thing that happens to people who get killed when they're 22, no?

jcm

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

To add more mud... often a rest point on a peg or nut or sling was counted differently to direct aid. I'm sure that there were some 'FFAs' that in fact used rest points, in those days. I can't prove that though...

In reply to johncoxmysteriously: I'm suggesting that Jones subsequently changed his mind. Brown and Crew were regularly aiding 5c pitches at that time, so one would think a 6a pitch climbed free would be worthy of note. For what it's worth, the 1983 CC guide syas, 'It is reported that B Brewster climbed this free but it is very unlikely'.

Still, Colin Goodey is still around and still active so it would be interesting to hear what he has to say.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Agreed. Does anybody know how to get hold of Colin Goodey?

Re Frank's point, there have always been known ways of getting new routes recorded. And, back then, (before even my time!) I would have thought the Welsh climbing community was very tight indeed, with people in the know knowing exactly what was going on.

And yet, and yet... there are always talented individuals who slip through the net, often because they're not one of the lads. E4 6a in the early 60s is certainly pushing credibility yet if(!) the groove was littered with pegs and all(!) Barry Brewster had to do was push on like a demon, then maybe, just maybe...

I suppose the romantic in me wants to believe that he did it. I'm sure Big Ron wouldn't miss one FFA out of so many.

I guess it boils down to what Colin Goodey has to say.

Mick

In reply to Mick Ward:

>And, back then, (before even my time!) I would have thought the Welsh climbing community was very tight indeed, with people in the know knowing exactly what was going on.

Well, that's what Frank said. But then Frank thought his ascent was the second, so unless you believe Colin G simply made up/totally misremembered BB's ascent, then obviously the community wasn't so tight that an ascent of the route (whether free or not) passed unnoticed.

Anyway, as you say, there are always various overlapping communities who believe they're the whole of the community, but aren't. Like a Venn diagram. Did the Rock and Ice really have much to do with Bangor students?

jcm

In reply to John2:

>Brown and Crew were regularly aiding 5c pitches

Well, Great Wall's E4 6a, is it not? When was that done?

jcm

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Come on John, that wasn't freed until John Allen climbed it - famously headlined by Ken Wilson in Mountain - *Great Wall freed - with chalk!*

In reply to jon:

Or the late Iain Edwards?

Mick

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:


John Streetly's ascent of the Bloody Slab being an excellent illustration (although he was at Cambridge IIRC).

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
In those days he could have been credited with a free ascent if climbed it without ettriers or if he did the moves but rested on every peg.
Prior to Rons ascent other notables had tried to free it Gabe Regan whittled it down to a rest or two.
As for climbing it in bendy boots if you've been on it you will know how unlikely this would be.

In reply to Mick Ward:

I don't know Mick. It's certainly normally credited to JA. Whatever, we know it wasn't Brown or Crew... or Drummond, for that matter - "One thin nut on eyelash tape. Then I put my foot in the noose."

In reply to jon:

Well, Drummond put his foot in the noose all right - on Cloggy, on Hoy, on the Troll Wall and on other seriously scary places... Nobody can ever take that away from him.

Mick

In reply to jon:

Ah, right you are. Of courae.

Btw please comment on my Pembroke cleaning thread. You should know.

jm

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
In 1962 Barry was in his final year at Bangor University, I was instructing at Og Cot, and we became pretty good friends. I was climbing at my best and we were doing the same climbs, such as Shrike, Vember, Red, Vector and The Thing and we would meet in the Gwynedd pub in Bangor on Friday evenings and compare notes. We only climbed together once on the same rope and that was for an ascent of The Neb at Tremadoc. I refused to try the direct finish that day but he came back and led it later - his only new route in Wales as far as I know.
Barry was one of the most naturally talented rock climbers that I ever knew and I would certainly put him in the Boysen league. However, he was absolutely useless with regards to ropework and runner placement. If he didn't find the climbing hard he wouldn't bother with runners and when it was hard there was nowhere to place one. On more than one occasion he would bang in a peg and for this he was (rightly) critisised. I often look back and wish he had spent more time with myself and Ron James and learned some basic ropework.
He did own a pair of PA's but was able to perform well with footware that can only be described as unsuitable. On one occasion he showed up at the Cot with no gear at all and we kitted him out with pupil issue boots and anorak. Wearing these he led a very early ascent of Hardd and it looked effortles. Another time I climbed Cenotaph with Al Hunt and Barry came up behind wearing nailed boots, clinkers !
Barry really wanted to do the first ascent of Masters (Great) Wall on Cloggy but Crew did it while he was working for his final exams. Could he have done it ? I'm not sure - he certainly had the talent but I think higher up where Pete used line runners on small chockstones Barry would have been lost. I remember him saying to me that there is still the Eiger and we all know what happened there. On the day he died Dave Yates and I made the fourth ascents of Scorpio and Troach on Cloggy. The next day, after hearing the news, we returned to Cloggy and failed to get up anything !
I have absolutely no recollection of him doing a free ascent of Vulcan. As Frank Canning points out the North Wales scene was very parochial in those days and we pretty much knew what was going on. However, it was a long time ago and I do have the vaguest of memories of saying to Claude Davies, in a competitive manner of course, that someone had free climbed one of the Cromlech Club's peg routes at Tremadoc. His reply was to the effect that a free climb was not possible, but I'm sure Colin Goodey would be happy to contribute if you can contact him.
Trevor Jones may not have mentioned Barry in Welsh Rock but neither did he mention Ron James or any other of the Og Cot crowd and we were pretty active in the early sixties.
Well jcm, you asked for information on Barry Brewster and here it is - I hope you find it interesting. He really was a nice unassumlng guy and I can picture him now - medium height, bottle bottom specs, quiet spoken with broed shoulders and large hands. But I must also thank you jcm for giving me this opportunity to take a stroll down memory lane.

In reply to Removed Userboje:

What a great post! Thank you so much.

Mick

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Have just received this from Sutty. If people would like his email address, drop me an email and I'll pass it on (when back. Am off now, climbing for the weekend.) I'm sure he'd love to hear from people. He's certainly greatly missed on here.

The plot thickens...


>Hi Mick, sutty here, BTW pass on my email address to those who want to get
>in touch.
>
>Re Vulcan, no idea if Barry did it, but as I said to grumpypants, I saw him
>at Castell Cdwm doing Central wall and he was not having too much trouble
>with it. Now that is roughly the same grade, maybe harder according to the
>logbooks on UKC. As you may remember, some pegs were used for protection or
>rest, or aid. It all depended on the person. I remember using the peg on the
>first pitch on Shrike for a handhold, but not the ones on the second pitch
>used for the belay. As you reached the overhang the crack took a bomber
>MOAC that was probably safer than any peg.
>
>

In reply to johncoxmysteriously: You realize that this thread has almost completely rehabilitated ukc in my mind?

Although there was always plenty of other stuff going on on here (other than endless cobblers that garners all the hits and sows despair, like the Lybia[sic] thread) this is the finest demonstration of ukc's abilities to actually talk about climbing, god forbid. A little treasure.

JCM et al, I salute you. Thanks.
b

In reply to Removed Userboje:

Hi Ian, have you got any photos of BB?


This does seem a plausible explanation...!

I wondered if similar rivalry between climbers of the time was responsible for the lack of mention of Ron James in Welsh Rock, so I looked for his name in the index. In fact, he does get a mention (only one, which seems a bit mean when he contributed so much) - but in fact it was with Trevor Jones himself when they tried a girdle traverse of Cloggy's Pinnacle together - so that rather puts paid to that theory. Unless, of course they fell out sometime after...?

Back to the thread, several other factors come into play... Your experiences in N Wales pre-date mine by ten years or more, but as I said higher up the thread, in my experience of the early 70s, a rest point on a pitch was often not considered aid (depending who you were, of course). Equally, a direct aid point on a pitch wasn't seen as such a failure as it is now. It was just an accepted practice. Later it became something to eliminate, a sort of natural progession, but it was just an accepted part of climbing. There was also a less serious side to climbing - if you thought you could get away with the odd pull on gear, then you probably wouldn't declare it. It was a totally different scene than now where ascents are documented in photos, videos, instantly available on the net. Then, and in the years that this thread refers to, news of ascents took a long time to filter through to other climbers, even ones operating in the same area. Which is why, of course, we are discussing it now!

In reply to Mick Ward:

Met Colin at Castle Inn earlier this summer. He is still putting up new routes there! He occasionally posts on here

http://northwaleslimestone.wetpaint.com/page/Castle+Inn+Quarry

In reply to ben b:


Agreed.


Chris

In reply to ben b:

Have to agree totally! What a fascinating and refreshing thread, and its great to see such historical insights emerging! Thanks JCM et al.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

I think I’m seeing some light! Mick Ward quotes Sutty: “Vulcan, no idea if Barry did it, but as I said to grumpypants, I saw him at Castell Cidwm doing Central Wall and he wasn’t having too much trouble with it”

If Sutty saw Barry Brewster on Central Wall it must have been his ghost! BB died on the Eigerwand on 25 July 1962 and the first ascent of Central Wall was by John Clements on 3 October 1964 – over 2 years later – using 2 points of aid – now E3, 6a, freed in 1977. I hope we’re not now going to debate whether it was BB who did the first ascent of central Wall 2 years before Clements!

John Clements was around Ogwen Cottage in the early 60’s and was good climber, as testified by his 1st ascents at Cidwm and LLech Ddu around 1964/65. I climbed Barbarian and Nimbus with Clements in August 1963 when we were both based at Og.Cott. Like Barry Brewster, Clements also died in a bizarre climbing accident in 1965/66; while winter climbing in Glencoe he was cramponed in the face when his partner fell off leading.

Now here’s the coincidence and perhaps the explanation of the Brewster/Vulcan puzzle! The next climb to Vulcan on Craig Pant-Ifan is FALCON climbed as an artificial aid route on 8 Oct 1962 by Ron James and freed by John Clements in 1964. It’s now E1 5b – much more reasonable for a 60’s free ascent than E4, 6a.

Boje (hi Cam, with memories of glorious Og.Cott. days, Frank) describes Barry Brewster as a nice unassuming man, medium height, specs, quiet spoken – this could also describe John Clements.

So here’s my closing hypothesis: Colin Goodey may have confused Brewster and Clements - in 1964 not 1962.

Thanks to you all for a fascinating discussion - I too had wondered why there was a dismissive comment in that guide about BB. Made me interested enough to actually log in! Cheers, Guys

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

And perhaps the Coup de Grace:
Ron James and Colin Goodey together did the first ascent of "G String" on Craig Bwlch y Moch in "1964" - the full date is not given in the guide.

John Clements is cited as freeing Falcon also in "1964". Perhaps this was on the same day and the occasion that Colin remembers?

John Clements kept a climbing log so the date of his ascent could perhaps be checked. I believe that either John McCormick or Jancis Allison now has his diary/logbook.

To those wondering why Trevor Jones didn't mention Ron James in "Welsh Rock": Trevor partnered Ron James & Tony Mason in founding Ogwen Cottage, but he couldn't make a career of it and left, perhaps with some rancour?

In reply to ben b:

Just have to agree with all the plaudits for a fascinating historical thread!

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Thread of the year John; thank you.

My parents were (bumblies) in the Rockhoppers (where they met in fact). My late father used to tell me stories - shamefully I paid scant attention until too late. Things about living in Ossian's cave for the summer and having huge bonfires in Glencoe with whole tree trunks blazing. I don't remember the names, just his face flickering and eyes dancing in our own, rather more modest, fire. Or tales of bravery and foolhardiness whilst he lashed me onto the next belay somewhere on Tryfan.

My father's guidebooks, which are amusingly annotated, go no higher than VS in Wales... but I will ask Mum, when I speak with her tomorrow, if she remembers any tales.

Thanks again for the thread.

J

In reply to johncoxmysteriously: Just wanted to add my name to the list of folks thanking you for this thread - fascinating.

BB was a very close and dear friend of mine from 1959 to the time of his death in 1962.We climbed regularly together summer and winter and planned to meet in Grindelwald in July 1962 with,looking back,rather ambitious plans.We both trained hard and were very fit.Barry set out a week ahead of me and it became evident he found BN and a spell of settled weather he took advantage of that window.I arrived a day too late for the funeral.
With regard to Vulcan-YES! Barry made the first free ascent a week after my ascent as an aid route.I had left all the pegs in place as I wished to repeat the route both with him and others.He simply clipped the pegs as runners.It was a truely remarkable feat by a remarkable climber.
I lost a dear friend and climber way ahead of his time.
Colin Goodey.

In reply to julieandlen:

Well that's rather put the cat among the pigeons, Colin!

In reply to Will Sim:

Harrer's account of the incident was utterly disreputable and loaded. Brian Nally in particular was treated in a totally shabby fashion by Harrer's character assasination.

In reply to Simon4: Ha, i agree, from all Harrer's writing he comes across as someone who made character damaging opinions pretty readily. But i still found his account had a tint of empathy for the impossible and tortured situation Nally was in. A position that Harrer, and a lot of us can imagine all too easily.
Will

In reply to Frank Cannings:
Hello Frank - Colin has now joined the forum and cleared up the matter.
However, I never thought that he could have confused Barry and John, but I think Sutty may have.
Regards,
Cam

In reply to jon:
Sorry Jon - no photos.

In reply to julieandlen:
Hello Colin,
Long time no see - the last time I remember us meeting was at Joe's 50th birthday in Llanberis and that was a long time ago ! It's even longer since Sue used to come to The Cot with the girls of St Winifreds.
Great that you could contribute to the forum and set things straight.
I must admit that I found it quite pleasant and nostalgic to reminisce about such a nice guy and superb climber as Barry - certainly one of the best that I ever new.
I still remember how disappointed he was when he found out that Crew had done Masters Wall (as we knew it then) while he was tied up studying for exams. In my previous post I posed the question "could he have done it" and I will continue the theme.
He certainly couldn't have fiddled with those little line runners that Pete used, but on the other hand I don't think he would have had access to 200ft ropes - meaning that he would have to have belayed half way. On the norms of the day this would have given him two pegs per pitch and on the top part I think he would have put two in and gone for it.
We will never know of course but I have a sneaking suspicion that he might have made it. What do you think ?
Regards to you both,
Cam,(or Boje if you knew me by that name)

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Len Milsom's Bendy boots were just ordinary working boots, not even walking boots, In these he did some first ascents of routes still graded E1 on grit, quite delicate stuff too like Millwheel Wall and Milsoms Minion, plus the first ascent of hard limestone routes like Medusa at Stoney. There used to be a picture of him on the front of the Froggatt guide leading the first ascent of High Heaven (or Hell, not sure which) in them.

In reply to Al Evans:

It was High Hell at Yarncliffe.

In reply to Will Sim:

Luca has written here eloquently about his vicious (and quite clearly unfounded in Luca's view) attack on Claudio Corti in The White Spider, so Barry Brewster and Brian Nally were far from his only targets. He didn't seem to attack Don Whillans or Chris Bonnington, it would be interesting (if quite sensitive) to see what Whillans opinion was, or Bonnington's is.

He obviously knew very little about Barry (or Brian for that matter), but that did not prevent him from coming to a snap judgement about their competence, and then putting it in print for the world to see.

The problem with The White Spider is not just that it contains many factually dubious and violently unfair attacks on other climbers, but that it is well-written and gripping for all that. If it were a tedious dirge, it could hardly have the capacity for abiding harm that it does.

I had not read the short but gripping account by Brian Nally in the Alpine Club journal cited above, but I had seen a more detailed account that he wrote for the Rockhoppers club journal. When people were doing pre-war ascents of the Eiger Nordwan, or recent post-war for that matter, they were virtually always tettering on the edge of disaster and often it was more by luck than judgement that saved them. Certainly that was the case for Harrer on the first ascent.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

One of the most emotive pieces of writing about loss in the mountains I have ever read.

The pain of that day clearly still haunts him many years later.

In reply to Simon4: Of course, lets be blunt, Harrer was a 'passenger' on the Eiger FA, and would never have got up it, if it was left to him to lead it.

He was fortunate to have such superb (and in Heckmair's case, brilliant) climbing partners, and I suppose if he had shown a bit more humility regarding his own climbing abilities, and less criticism of others, then the White Spider would have been an even better read.

Of course, there is the possibility, that some sentiment may have been lost in translation.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously: I'm not one for celebrity and hero worship but have to admit to being a little awe struck when I met Anderl Heckmair when he was a guest at my club dinner several year ago.

Al

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Message from Sutty in reply to Boje.

Central Wall was Clements on the FA but could have been Brewster that Sutty saw attempting it. "I was with someone from Black and Tans that day I think to do Curver, Why I thought it was Brewster was I know the person on it was killed shortly after and thought at the time it was a brilliant person killed".

(I have no knowledge about this personally, I'm just passing a message on, Pete).

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Agree with others that this is a great thread, and it’s good to have got CG’s posting.

A few thoughts:

I don’t think that first free ascents carried much importance in the early 60s. An indication of this is that a quick (not detailed) look through the first ascent lists of North Wales and West Penwith guidebooks, shows that very few FFAs are recorded for the early 60s, and certainly none of the post-war routes in the Pass, which were probably climbed free in the 50s. John Clements’s ascent of Falcon and the belated record of BB’s of Vulcan being two notable exceptions - the latter was not mentioned in the 1966 CC guide co-authored by Trevor Jones. The only other FFA on record from that period that I have found was Al Harris’s of Beorn in 1965. In contrast there are many records of FFAs in the late 60s/early 70s (inc. by Cannings and Littlejohn in West Penwith) and thereafter.

I would imagine that the fact that Vulcan was not described free in the 1969 Snowdon South was partly due to the rush in producing that guidebook, and partly a reflection of the way that the route was been climbed (probably not much at the time as aid climbing was going/had gone out of fashion by then).

The reason that the Crew/Harris book was much better than the CC book was the route descriptions had been much more thoroughly rewritten following route-checking, and not that the history had been researched more fully. In fact, as jcm’s 'better-informer', I had failed to spot that in the description of Vulcan in the Crew/Harris book it states ‘Despite reports that the groove has been climbed free, it seems most unlikely that it has’ (personally I wouldn’t attach too much significance to the reports plural). Almost certainly this is where Mike Mortimer got it from for his 1978 CC guide, so he can be exonerated from starting the rumour!

Over the last 15 years or so I have been impressed by the way that many guidebook authors take the business of researching historical details such as this much more seriously than used to be the case.

In reply to Bob Moulton:

I think that Bob is being very modest here in not pointing out that he in fact was chairman(?) of the CC guidebook committee for many years and was responsible for probably dozens of their books... and in this capacity is better qualified than most to comment... Sorry about that, Bob!

In reply to Bob Moulton:

>Over the last 15 years or so I have been impressed by the way that many guidebook authors take the business of researching historical details such as this much more seriously than used to be the case.

I strongly agree with this; I've noticed it even at my vast distance from events. One reason why it's a shame the CC didn't manage a Gogarth guide in that period, but let's not go THERE.

I'd noticed the Crew/Harris comment as well. What puzzles me is why it was ever doubted, given an eye-witness. Is this some climbing politics of fifty years ago resurfacing?!

Why has sutty stopped posting, by the way? That's a shame.

jcm

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Banned. Thought everyone knew.

In reply to teflonpete: how did sutty get banned? I take it any rehashing of the reasons will get cut off.....

In reply to Removed Userboje:
gt to hear from you Cam! I assume you are still in Canada? Can you give me a contact so I can give you heaps of news from this end.There is to be a reunion of all BB friends from the past this autumn-but lots more1.
Hope to speak soon.
All good wishes.
Colin.

In reply to teflonpete: Message from Sutty in reply to Boje.

Central Wall was Clements on the FA but could have been Brewster that Sutty saw attempting it. "I was with someone from Black and Tans that day I think to do Curver, Why I thought it was Brewster was I know the person on it was killed shortly after and thought at the time it was a brilliant person killed".

But that's just it Pete - John Clements was unfortunately killed in Scotland about three months after his ascent of Central wall.

In reply to Frank Cannings:

Frank, an absolutely ingenious theory re John Clements and Barry Brewster. It should have been right! I was still half-asleep when I posted Sutty's comment on Saturday morning and it was only later, belaying (on one of your routes, I think, thank you) that I remembered that the FA of Central Wall came after Barry Brewster's death on the Eiger.

John Clements has always fascinated me and there do seem to be intriguing parallels between the two men. A separate thread, perhaps?

All best wishes,

Mick

In reply to julieandlen:


Fantastic! To climb so hard, in the early 1960s. That was really something.



The circumstances of Barry Brewster's death are so poignant that it seems even more important for his feat to be recognised, even now, some 50 years later. Thank you.

Mick

In reply to Mick Ward:
Thank you Mick,for those kind and appropriate words.I'm attending a reunion of many of his friend who knew him during his time at UCNW.I may one day put pen to paper and write a small article about this huge guy-there is so much more to tell.
My Very Best Wishes.
Colin.

In reply to Simon4:

First of all – great thread! I know less than 10% of the names quoted here, but the read is fascinating!

The similarity (and the biiiig differences) between the Brewster / Nally and the Corti / Longhi tragedies were not lost on some of the people who has recently written on Eiger, particularly Giovanni Capra and Giorgio Spreafico (who wrote the definitive Claudio Corti biography). And it was not lost on anyone that Harrer tried in both cases the same approach – ie judging (from a self appointed and not exactly deserved role) other people having a very poor grasp of what had really happened up there, or worse, just believed (and asked other people to believe) what he wanted to believe. But I’ve already written about this so I’ll spare you a rerun…

This said, I think you really nailed what’s the big problem with “Weisse Spinne”. It’s both a very readable and compelling book AND (in a lot of places) a criminally sloppy exercise on climbing history written as a self serving tool. To be honest however, Harrer’s book is not alone on this, as I could name a lot of other “classics” who can’t be taken anymore for face value. But WS is definitely the most blatant example of this category.

In reply to julieandlen:

Firstly to Boje. Yes, it’s good that Colin has cleared up the matter and (to Jon) that there’s ”no cat among the pigeons”. Your description of BB’s skill with ropes and runners reminds me of my past climbing partner Peter Biven, who often lobbed a Moac, Troll or Peck deep into a crack and clipped it if it didn’t fall out immediately!

Next to Colin Goodey. Thank you for confirming Barry Brewster’s unaided ascent of Vulcan. With 15 pre-placed pegs for runners I can now see why the ascent wasn’t heralded at the time, but nevertheless a good achievement even if a different interpretation to aid use as indicated in the posts above is applied. What he did is akin to modern Sports climbing.

I can also understand why Trevor Jones included the footnote to the 1st ascent detail as “climbed free by B. Brewster”, and still described it as an artificial route, rather than “first free ascent by B. Brewster” and describing it as a free route. There’s a big difference.

His ascent clearly cannot be compared to the modern E4. With all that pre-placed protection an E-grade would not apply, but if he didn’t rest on the pegs it’s still a 6a ascent especially as many good finger holds in the crack would have been blocked by peg placements.

Pete Crew's ascent of Great Wall on 27 May 1962 was shortly after - your aided ascent of Vulcan was on 20 April 1962; Brewster’s “free” ascent was “a week after” so around 27 April 1962. Crew used 6 aid points on Great Wall, today graded the same as Vulcan.

All this was before the days of “Rocksport” or even “Mountain” so it escaped scrutiny and analysis by the great pundit of that time.

Colin I do hope you get around to writing your article about BB. As this thread has shown, there is still a lot of interest in him almost 50 years on.

To complete the record of Barry’s achievement for posterity perhaps you could elaborate more on the occasion of Barry’s ascent of Vulcan, in particular: was he really wearing “bendy boots” and were you belaying him or was someone else there holding his ropes?

Finally to Mick Ward: Thanks for recognising the ingenuity of my detective work re Clements and Brewster’s free ascents. Yes, it’s a shame it’s not right because it seemed to fit so well with all the characters involved and with the technical grades free climbed in the early 60’s.

John Clements was indeed a fascinating person; intelligent, witty, confident, colourful and fun when I climbed with him. He made a short but significant contribution to British climbing and I’m sure he would have gone on to even greater achievements. The Holliwell brothers continued after John on Llech Ddu.

With Mike Kosterlitz, John made an early ascent (4th?) of the Philipp Flamm route on the North-West Face of Civetta, then a popular test piece for Brits in the Dolomites, including ascents by Pete Crew, Al Wright, Martin Boysen, Paul Nunn and Dave Potts.

I was contacted in 2007 by John McCormick who was then writing an article about John Clements for the Wayfarers’ Journal but I don’t know whether it was published.

In reply to Frank Cannings:

That's true, it would have been far harder considering the boots of the day, harness? or more likely rope tied around his waist? I can't see many people rising to that challenge now.
John.

In reply to johnl:

The adjectival or E grade mainly describes the SERIOUSNESS of the climb; the consequence of falling off with regard to the effectiveness of the protection; the risk of being hurt.

With 15 pre-placed pegs in a 34 meter pitch there would be an "easily" clip-able runner every 2+ metres (about 7 feet), just like a modern bolted sports route. He would not have a harness - they came along years later, but probably the hemp waist line commonly used then, and short falls on them were not uncomfortable - but we-re not told he fell off anyway.

It's the 6a technical grade that counts here - yes PA's would not be as good as modern sticky shoes and they weren't as good for edging, and so with some holds blocked by peg placements as well and inevitably more vegetation and loose rock Brewster’s ascent would probably be more TECHNICAL than it is now.

In reply to Frank Cannings: Just say you don't believe the account.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

My earliest recollection of Barry Brewster was on a club meet at Cwm Silyn. Whilst the rest of us stood about deciding who to climb with and which routes to do, Barry calmly strolled to the foot of the crag and made a solo ascent straight up the middle of the face.

In the summer of 1961, Barry joined a party of nine on the U.C.N.W. Mountaineering Club expedition to the Stauning Alps, N.E. Greenland, led by Ben Lyon of Lyon Equipment. During the six weeks there, 15 first ascents were made.

Towards the end of the trip, Barry and his brother, Brian, went to the head of the Langletcher glacier to make an ascent. Whilst descending, Brian fell some 200' down the far side of a col and impaled himself in the abdomen with the adze of his axe. Barry managed to secure Brian before racing for several hours back to base camp to get help.

During the following three days, we hauled Brian to the top of the col, lowered him down the other side, dragged him on snow on a makeshift sledge constructed from short skis and pack frames and then, when the glacier turned to bare ice, carried him.

With no sleep and barely any food apart from a cup or two of soup, exhaustion and hallucinations were setting in when, by chance, a Royal Danish Airforce helicopter appeared. Ben had gone ahead to a Danish Mining camp some miles away across another glacier. There, the mine's radio officer managed to contact the pilot who diverted his operation to pick Ben up and fly to the rescue.


The helicopter flew Brian to Mestersvig from where a Danish aircraft took him on to Iceland. There, they operated on him at once. Later, we were told had it not been for the helicopter's assistance, Brian would probably not have survived.

Twelve months later, as you know, Barry was lost on the N. face of the Eiger.

Looking through slides of that expedition and seeing Barry dressed, as he usually was, in a faded green jumper with an off white stripe across the front, it is near impossible not to get emotional. Hard too to accept that that promising young life was lost almost fifty years ago.

There is an old Chinese saying that reads something like "It is better to live one day as a lion than a hundred years as a lamb". You all probably have heard it and, like me, hope Barry had the same philosophical outlook on life!

Mike

In reply to julieandlen:

Please, please do!

J

In reply to MikedeP:

Thanks for that post. Interesting. I don't suppose you could scan any of these slides, could you? I think if you did people would be very interested to see them (I know I would).

jcm

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Back to the Eiger for an instant, I've read Bonington's account (I'm sure...) but have forgotten it and no longer have the book. One thing that interests me is that BN descibes horrendous conditions - slush, rockfall etc. What were Bonington and Whillans doing up there in that? Were they making a serious attempt? Was the weather supposed to improve? Or had they gone up to render aid to BB and BN?

In reply to jon: Bonington's account is here http://www.arvindguptatoys.com/arvindgupta/heroic-stories.pdf (among much else) - I've no idea if this is an abbreviated version. Bonington and Whillans initially turned back when they realised how bad conditions were, then returned to the face when they met a party of Swiss guides who were coming to rescue Nally. Which speaks very well for them.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

The Brewster / Nally Eiger story is also recounted in the Don Whillans biography " Don Whillans Portrait of a Mountaineer" by Don Whillans and Alec Ormerod, pages 215-220.

In reply to John2: Good grief. I must have read that a long time ago, but with the perspective of the rest of this thread it took on a new poignancy and makes you realise how capable Bonnington and Whillans are/were.
Thanks for the link.

In reply to pneame:

Was it Joe Simpson who noted that Whillan's ability as mountaineer was best demonstrated by his recognising that water pouring higher off the face was the same stream that fell before the Hinterstoisser traverse, therefore saving them from reversing that in those conditions?

In reply to alasdair19:
Seems so - just back from a week off & this is a real surprise - Sutty never seemed to come across as anything but balanced & very knowledgeable (a sort of Rockipaedia!). A loss to UKC I'd say from that point of view.
Back to the main issue though - Thanks JCM for inspiring a truely classic thread. I read TWS & other stuff long ago & had forgotten the detail. It's good that the record is being put straight. Insidently, I started climbing in Woolies plimsolls in 67 at Harrisons, then graduated to walking boots, then got my first EBs/PAs when at Uni in 68/69.
I've often thought that the Hard Rock accounts represented a classic period of climbing writing when people were still prepared to admit to being terrified: the accounts in the later books seem a bit dry by comparison. Or is that rose tinted?

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

As variously mentioned, the 'Thread of the Year'!

I'm struggling to recall this, but I remember reading way back that article (in the Sunday Times I think) by Peter Gillman which I believe carried the headline "Why I will never climb again" (I really am foggy about this, so I might have got all of this wrong). The article reported on Brian Nally's rescue. It made a deep impression on me as a young boy who aspired to go climbing; I was struck by both the heroism and sadness of the event, both of which spurred me on to take up climbing & mountaineering. I cut the article out and for a long time it was in my copy of 'The White Spider' - just as I had placed another article - about Terry Taylor's fall on Cloggy (Times Colour Supplement) in 'The Black Cliff' - almost to underline the importance of these two places to me and my aspirations.

It also got me reflecting that there was another piece by Gillman (I think) in the Alpine Club journal about climbing 'controversies'. Perverse that, in the same era that Brewster was gracing the cliffs of North Wales with a 'mysterious' ascent, they were being sullied by McCallum and his delusions of grandeur.

Thanks for the thread.

In reply to Greenbanks: Could always contact direct and ask if he'd post a link to it for all to read

http://www.peterleni.com/

In reply to grumpybearpantsclimbinggoat:

Good idea - I've done that.

Thanks

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
Hi John,
I'm not sure if I can download slides onto the forum site but will get my technical buddy to advise. Meanwhile, I have downloaded onto CD's and would be happy to mail you a copy if you forward an address. If you're a computer whizz kid, maybe you can manage better than me. There are just over 70 pics.
You can mail me at mikedep@jerseymail.co.uk
Best regards,
Mike

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

I always thought someone familiar with the british climbing scene of that time should have a go and write a book about the Brewster/Nally attempt and the controversy that followed. In 2012 it is 50 years since the sad death of Barry - the right time to remember him in a proper way. Maybe Nally and Bonington would be cooperative?

Fot those of you who are interested: In Toni Hiebeler's book "Eigerwand - Der Tod klettert mit" (1963), there is a long chapter on the accident. Brian Nally and Hiebeler exchanged letters. Plus, there are pictures of Nally and Brewster in the book. Among them a heartbreaking one, obviously taken from the west-ridge on July 26th: Barry Brewster, hung downward with his head on the Second icefield, Nally at the same time climbing on the top of the icefield, taking shelter from the stonefall or trying to fix the belays. Sadly, there is no English edition.

In reply to Greenbanks:

I received this from Peter Gillman:

<Yes, I saw the thread at UKClimbing, wondered if I could contribute, and concluded that I couldn’t. And I don’t think I can help now either. It was all just before my time. I started writing about climbing in 1965 which was three years after the accident. I did refer to it in passing when writing about the Eiger, which was at the time of Eiger Direct, and that was also when I met the key players, Chris Bonington and Don Whillans, for the first time. But so far as I remember I never wrote anything focussing on the accident specifically. I’d be intrigued to see the piece you remember if you manage to track it down.

With best regards

Peter >


I'll have to see if I can find the cutting if it wasn't Peter who wrote it...or maybe its just old age getting me.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
Apologies for a small error in reporting the rescue of Brian Brewster in the Stauning Alps. Whilst downloading slides, I noticed it was a USA airforce helicopter that rescued him not a Danish one. It probably came from a Greenland base - part of the "Cold War" defence system of that time.

In reply to Greenbanks:



I also remember this article - but I don't think it was about the Eiger. I suspect that you're getting two articles mixed up - as, unfortunately, I seem to do far too often these days!

Mick

In reply to Mick Ward:
Peter Gillman here. The article in question was about the death of my main climbing partner, Dave Condict, in an accident in the Alps. Dave, who took part in the first ascent of Rondoy by an LSE party in 1962, introduced me to climbing a year or so later. He died after falling beneath an overhang - he could not reascend the rope and suffocated.

It is ironic that you should remember the headline as I hated it - it placed the focus on me, when the article was supposed to be about Dave, and I did not even speculate on whether I would give up climbing. It also won me an abusive letter from my former writing partner Dougal Haston (we wrote Eiger Direct together) who accused me of being trite and sentimental, and said Dave's death was his own fault as he wasn't wearing a harness. That last part was true up to a point but harnesses were not in widespread use at the time.

I never did write in full about the Brewster/Nally accident. But it did comprise an important part of Eiger mythology in which I found myself immersed when I covered the Eiger Direct dramas of 1966 for the Telegraph, and then wrote the book with Dougal afterwards.

In reply to Peter Gillman:

PS to above: the article about Dave Condict was reprinted in In Balance, a collection of my climbing writing, published in the 1980s.

In reply to Peter Gillman: Thanks for your comments Peter.

Do you think that Chris Bonnington would give his opinion of the incident?

In reply to Peter Gillman:

Thank you, Peter. As soon as you mentioned the name Dave Condict I realised how off the mark I was (and as Mick Ward had inferred, that I had conflated two tragic events).

I can now stop trawling my mind and the internet.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously: Don and I knew nothing of Brian and Barry's presence on the Face, had set out the previous day and bivouaced in the Swallows Nest above the First Ice Field.
It was much too warm and as Nally describes, the stones were pouring down all night. Next morning we decided we'd at least go up and have a look. We went to the start of the Second Ice Field, had our look - it was horrendous - and started back. That was when the Swiss guides came up into shouting distance and told us that two of our comrades were in trouble at the other
end of the Second Ice Field. Obviously we turned round and started to cross it; the two guides
just vanished.

The crossing was stone swept but we had no choice. We saw
Brewster's body fall and swung leads, cutting steps, across the ice field. We tied him into the middle of the ropes and returned though the bombardment with the weather getting progressively worse.

Should they have persevered the previous day? - I certainly wouldn't have
done but that was their choice and I wouldn't dream of criticizing them. A
lot of acclaimed triumphs have been achieved in the face of seemingly desperate conditions.

It's all in a chapter of my first book "I Chose to Climb" which is out of print at the moment but coming back as a paper back soon.

This thread is really interesting.

Does anyone know anything about Brian Nally? It would be interesting to hear about him too.

Until this thread all I knew about Brewster was that he died on the Eiger and did the First Ascent of the Neb at Tremadog.

Cheers,

Tom

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

One wonders whether there was more stonefall on the Eiger in those days? I seem to remember reading somewhere about Whillans and Patey having a crack at the face in 1963 and retreating when barraged by stones up at the second icefield.

In reply to zurby:
I think it used to be climbed in warmer conditions than it generally is now.

In reply to chrisbonington:
Thanks for taking the time to post, this whole thread has been fascinating and it's great to hear from so many people who were directly connected with the history being discussed.

In reply to zurby: My understanding (I have no personal knowledge, thankfully) is that fewer ascents are attempted in summer - better gear and technique means that winter ascents are safer.

I remember my mate Robin Sedgewick (first Brit to climb all of Rebuffats classic 6 North Faces I think, also first to climb all offshore routes in Hard Rock!) describing his ascent after the second ice field, his mate turning to him in middle of a fusilade of rocks and saying 'we seem to have run out of options here...' Terrifying stuff.

Since I was a young lad, the Eiger has fascinated and terrified me. I know climbers avoid the cultural and historical context whenever possible, but was there an element of the two world wars feeding into that time, and if so, how much, or was the same old gung ho that will be with us always? Atb David (not so young now).

In reply to zurby:


"Somewhere" being "A short walk with Whillans" perhaps?
http://rockandice.com/articles/people/article/687-a-short-walk-with-whillan...

In reply to chrisbonington: Thank you Chris, good to hear a horses mouth reply for once.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:


I agree. Brian Nally's writing in the Alpine Journal is so poignant: "and even now I know that in spite of it all what I have become or what I shall become in my lifetime those moments up on that Second Ice-field, they were the most terrible .. they were the proudest moments of my life. To have been in the company of Barry Brewster in an attempt on the Eiger wall."

To me this has the same feel as Sir Thomas Wyatt's poem "I am as I am"

I am as I am and so will I be
But how that I am none knoweth truly,
Be it evil be it well, be I bond be I free
I am as I am and so will I be.

The full poem can be heard and read here: http://classicpoetryaloud.podomatic.com/entry/2008-02-18T05_50_24-08_00

Nearly 50 years on, what did "become"?

In reply to johncoxmysteriously: I like the sight of the venerable Sir Christian having a green L next to his username

In reply to Luke90:

Absolutely, it has been fascinating.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward: I believe that conditions nowadays mean that summer ascents are a bit of a no go area.

However, I have been on this 'horrendous' face twice in summer a couple of decades ago - regretting ever reading the White Spider every brittle step of the way!!!

First attempt got as far as the second ice field, where we took one look at the shit coming down, and called it a day. Second attempt, got as far as the Ramp, before getting hit by a typical eiger storm, resulting in another retreat (a suitably epic 2 day affair)

There was absolutely no enjoyment on either trip, the climbing was shite, the rock was shite, the ice was shite, the weather was shite, the stonefall and avalanches were shite, climbing waterfalls is shite, and the danger was just debilitating and oppressive - as someone else once said - it was like being 'hunted' every second of every hour, and 'haunted' by the ghosts of it's morbid history.

This face has got 'Death' written all over it, and all I can say to those who've succeeded on it, is that you have far bigger balls than I could ever have, and I am barely worthy to pack your sac for you.

In reply to Goucho:

Superb! Summing up exactly the attraction (from someone who has only dared to crawl half way up the West Ridge!)

In reply to Goucho: Read my previous post on this thread. Its a different route. You'd piss it, and enjoy it.
Will

In reply to Will Sim: Thankfully, I'm now to old and out of condition (and inclination) to consider re-visiting that particular road not fully travelled down.

I think my biggest problem in all honesty, was that the route 'got into my head' a bit too much, and psychologically I was always on the back foot.

In reply to Goucho:

Nothing wrong with that! i have the same thing about "The Cumbrian" on Esk, and that's safe as houses.

Will

In reply to Will Sim: It is!

In reply to Goucho: Like you I have been on it twice but never got beyond the top of second ice field and like you experienced similar conditions and feelings. I think it is the most intimidating and threatening place I have ever been. Have to say though that with modern equipment winter alpine climbing does not seem as serious as it once did and a winter ascent in good conditions looks reasonably straight forward. If only I was younger.

Al

In reply to Gaston Rubberpants: I agree Al, I found both experiences, threatening, menacing and deeply unnerving - in fact to be blunt, it scared the shit out of me

And, I don't even think modern equipment or good, and relatively safe winter conditions would eradicate any of those feelings - thank god I'll never have to find out

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
Barry Brewster was a member of Bangor Uni MC. One person who knew him is Mick Lyon of Lyon Equipment who may be a source of information. The Bangor Uni MC log books are in the archive of the uni library you could apply to the librarian for access. I got to Bangor a year after Barry was killed. Rumours abounded of his first ascents all of which he never claimed.

In reply to Rick Newcombe 01928722977: Hello Rick - long time no see !!. Was thinking of calling in at the uni library to look through the old logs but I think the subject has been well discussed and I doubt he would have recorded much. Dave Peers

In reply to MikedeP:

I think you might need a special computer plug-in slide copier, my dad has one, you put the slides into a plastic tray and slide it into the device, which then copies them onto the computer as images.

Tim

In reply to MikedeP:

http://www.maplin.co.uk/5mp-compact-film-and-slide-scanner-503038?c=found&a...

I can't vouch for it's quality, but you can buy a scanner for £29.99 from Maplins online.

Hope to help.

Tim

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Barry wAS MY FRIEND-WE CLIMBED TOGETHER FOR SEVERAL YEARS-i WAS TO HAVE BEEN HIS COMPANION IN gRINDLEWALD THAT FATEFUL SUMMER OF 1962.
yES -HE DID CLIMB MY AID ROUTE 'VULCAN' FREE A WEEK LATER WITH ME,SO NO ONE TO TOUCH HIM IN BRITAIN ON ROCK AT THAT TIME.IAM PLANNING HIS STORY.
THANKS FOR YOUR REPLY TO MY POSTING.
BEST WISHES.
COLIN GOODEY.

In reply to julieandlen: Thanks Colin for your new routes (and bolts) at Castle Inn, but it's a pity that the pub has gone. Great for a wet day.

In agreement. This thread has been a brilliant read . Thanks to all contributors.