What does the internet cost and who pays?

New Topic
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
 Moacs 08 Oct 2023

Yes, yes there's advertising, but there's also many other forms of cost, direct and indirect.

Anyone got any well-evidenced links to the total costs and how those are divided up?

Then there's all the low-grade, long-term societal costs that turn up in slightly dark ways - inequalities, misinformation, social isolation, health impact of sedentary lifestyles...

Those are very hard to quantify, but at least as important.

And, the bottom line?  Net, net, is it worth it?

11
 CantClimbTom 08 Oct 2023
In reply to Moacs:

It's so nebulous, that almost any answer from ones worshipping social media companies to Armageddon and tin foil hats will hit a target. Provided of course the evidenced links and "facts" are selected carefully.

Unless your question is more focussed, it's just an invitation to open the floodgates to random internet weirdos like me to spout our opinions.

Please could you re-form the question.

1
In reply to Moacs:

Which part of 'the internet'? Infrastructure, content, etc?

You could equally ask 'who pays for the mobile phone network?', since both are communications insfrastructures.

 tew 08 Oct 2023
In reply to Moacs:

No idea on costs, but this is a VERY rough and high level breakdown of who pays for what

Data centers and server farms are paid for by websites, other hosts and users (you can rent a server if you want one)

Data links (deep sea cables, sat links, land cabling, etc) have owners and depending on what it's connecting will depend on who pays. For example Facebook, etc. will own some to link data centers in the US and Europe. BT and other internet providers will own some. There are companies who specialise in creating these links and space will be rented off them by a range of different organisations.

The "backbone services" (e.g. DNS, this turns Google.com in to an IP address that computers can understand) will be paid for by major internet providers 

Trying to work out total costs and who pays would either melt your brain in the complexity, or your computer will have caught fire trying to process the most horrifying spreadsheet ever

 freeflyer 08 Oct 2023
In reply to Moacs:

I suggest you could make the exact same post about transport costs.

 Lankyman 08 Oct 2023
In reply to Moacs:

I googled 'what does the internet cost?' and it reckons about £30 a month in the UK.

 Dax H 08 Oct 2023
In reply to Moacs:

The monetary costs are paid for by the end users and tax payers in the most part.

Every bit of data stored or displayed has a cost, that cost is picked up through users. A shopping website is paid for directly by the shop for example, the cost of that is built in of the product that the shop sells. A government website is paid for by the government via our taxes.

The cost to society in general is too hard to quantify, on the one hand the ability to share data, access to reserch and education is fantastic for society adn realy helps inovation, invention adn technological advancement.

On the other hand though so many young people seem to be basing their future around being an influencer rather than a productive member of society that over time we could see a big reduction in people who create things other than Tick Tock and Instagram videos.

 Jack 08 Oct 2023
In reply to Moacs:

Who pays? We do. The commodity that is being traded is our data.

 wintertree 08 Oct 2023
In reply to Moacs:

> Then there's all the low-grade, long-term societal costs that turn up in slightly dark ways - inequalities, misinformation, social isolation, health impact of sedentary lifestyles...

Thats a subset of the World Wide Web.  “The Internet” is far more than just the World Wide Web.

What “the internet” actually comprises is so subject to definition that’s it’s an almost impossible question to answer.

 Dax H 08 Oct 2023
In reply to Jack:

> Who pays? We do. The commodity that is being traded is our data.

The irony is we pay the actual cash that pays for our data to be traded. If we didnt buy the products that are advertised based on our data profiles there would be no money in it and wholsale data harvesting would stop.

In reply to Lankyman:

> I googled 'what does the internet cost?' and it reckons about £30 a month in the UK.

...and by strange coincidence my current broadband bill is....

 wittenham 09 Oct 2023

The 'internet' is paid for by:

- consumers/businesses who use it and pay [usually] monthly bills

- shareholders of telecoms companies [returns in Europe are mostly below the cost of capital]

- the big internet companies you know and love [Meta, Google, etc]

- taxpayers [who fund some broadband roll out, usually in rural or deprived areas]

- advertisers [who pay the big internet companies for access to your eyeballs]

The cost... well, depends who you ask and what their motive is in answering.  More detail then you could ever possibly imagine wanting to know and understand available via DM.

And how does it work that I lurk here for a year or so, finally sign up and then get two questions inside a week that I can answer?

Here is some light reading:  https://www.berec.europa.eu/system/files/2023-04/20230418_BoR%20%2822%29%20...

Post edited at 10:33
 wittenham 09 Oct 2023
In reply to Jack:

and your time to watch adverts.

 BRILLBRUM 09 Oct 2023
In reply to wittenham:

All of the above, and whilst the cost is nebulous we can surmise that it's tens of billions of dollars considering the amount that the big players invest in keeping their businesses up and running and us punters engaged - and they make a profit. What's more interesting than cost is worth, i.e. what's the value of the internet in terms of our economy. BCG estimated that this was something like $4.2 trillion back in 2016 so in 2023 I would guess at something in excess of $10 trillion. Then take it down to another level - what is the value to you and I, is it priceless, could we run our lives without it, do our jobs, get paid, pay for things? At a push yes, but it would be rather difficult if you've substantially shifted your life admin to on-line only - like wot I have.

'Can we have a copy of a recent utility bill please, and no a printout from your online account will not suffice.'

Post edited at 16:56
In reply to BRILLBRUM:

> All of the above, and whilst the cost is nebulous we can surmise that it's tens of billions of dollars considering the amount that the big players invest in keeping their businesses up and running and us punters engaged - and they make a profit. What's more interesting than cost is worth, i.e. what's the value of the internet in terms of our economy. BCG estimated that this was something like $4.2 trillion back in 2016 so in 2023 I would guess at something in excess of $10 trillion. Then take it down to another level - what is the value to you and I, is it priceless, could we run our lives without it, do our jobs, get paid, pay for things? At a push yes, but it would be rather difficult if you've substantially shifted your life admin to on-line only - like wot I have.

> 'Can we have a copy of a recent utility bill please, and no a printout from your online account will not suffice.'

But then it's only worth it because that's how we do it. The question should how much value is it adding to our lives above what we had before. If all high street shopping is removed by the internet shops undercutting, what's to stop prices rising once the competition has gone?

 wittenham 11 Oct 2023
In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:

But then it's only worth it because that's how we do it. The question should how much value is it adding to our lives above what we had before. If all high street shopping is removed by the internet shops undercutting, what's to stop prices rising once the competition has gone?

 I am not sure what question you are trying to answer, but a few comments:

- barriers to entry for internet shopping are lower than they are for high street shopping.  So competitive pressure will remain.  [there are issues on asymmetric taxing regimes, just like there are on VAT vs income tax vs capital gains, but that is not an internet question]

- not all shopping can be bought at an internet shop

- shopping is a rounding error on the value add of the 'internet'

I am happy to waffle/pontificate on this for days [which might be why no one ever sits next to me twice at dinner parties], but if you are interested, perhaps set out what you are trying to understand?  Or is this part of a homework assignment?

1

New Topic
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Loading Notifications...