/ Rishi Sunak Vs Johnson

This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
MG 20 Mar 2020

Looking at today's press conference and Rishi vastly more impressive than Johnson. Future PM?  How secure is Johnson really? This is hardly what he imagined being PM would be 

11
Tony the Blade 20 Mar 2020
In reply to MG:

I said exactly that, for someone that until very recently was a junior minister I think he's done a great job, and he's much more erudite than Bojo.

TheDrunkenBakers 20 Mar 2020
In reply to MG:

> Looking at today's press conference.  Future PM?  

Quite possibly...impressive young man

Post edited at 18:18
Gordon Stainforth 20 Mar 2020
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:

I can see him as becoming PM quite easily, because at least he's obviously got a brain on his head, and comes across as quite sane and balanced. Unlike the buffoon of our incumbent. We could perhaps be shortly returning to a safer, saner political world, with intelligent, balanced and capable people on both sides, i.e Sunak v. Starmer.

3
MG 20 Mar 2020
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

It would be nice. Noticeable that all of a sudden the civil service, judiciary and media are back in favour. And Patel and Cummings less so?? 

3
RomTheBear 20 Mar 2020
In reply to MG:

> Looking at today's press conference and Rishi vastly more impressive than Johnson. Future PM?  How secure is Johnson really? This is hardly what he imagined being PM would be 

Easy to impress when you have unlimited money to spend.

Lets see how it goes when he will need to take the country out the huge financial hole left.

Post edited at 18:30
1
RomTheBear 20 Mar 2020
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

> I can see him as becoming PM quite easily, because at least he's obviously got a brain on his head, and comes across as quite sane and balanced.

Isn’t that basically a non-starter ?

MG 20 Mar 2020
In reply to RomTheBear:

I am sure as usual you will have all the answers. 

9
TheDrunkenBakers 20 Mar 2020
In reply to MG:

> It would be nice. Noticeable that all of a sudden the civil service, judiciary and media are back in favour. And Patel and Cummings less so?? 

This, this, this!

TheDrunkenBakers 20 Mar 2020
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

> I can see him as becoming PM quite easily, because at least he's obviously got a brain on his head, and comes across as quite sane and balanced. Unlike the buffoon of our incumbent. We could perhaps be shortly returning to a safer, saner political world, with intelligent, balanced and capable people on both sides, i.e Sunak v. Starmer.

Wow, can you imagine! A super bright centre right against a super bright centre left. It's my idea of political heaven.

Post edited at 18:43
1
RomTheBear 20 Mar 2020
In reply to MG:

> I am sure as usual you will have all the answers. 

Completely gratuitous sneering comment.

Very poor.

Post edited at 18:53
6
Timmd 20 Mar 2020
In reply to MG:

'Not by enmity is enmity overcome', from the book Buddhism For Sheep. Baaa

Post edited at 19:02
6
derryclimbs 20 Mar 2020
In reply to Tony the Blade:

> I said exactly that, for someone that until very recently was a junior minister I think he's done a great job, and he's much more erudite than Bojo.

The same happened with Jacinda Adern in NZ. Junior minister, put in at the deep end and thoroughly flourished into a well respected leader. 

MG 20 Mar 2020
In reply to Timmd:

“Not by numerous sock puppets is respect gained” same source, often overlooked.

1
summo 20 Mar 2020
In reply to RomTheBear:

> Easy to impress when you have unlimited money to spend.

> Lets see how it goes when he will need to take the country out the huge financial hole left.

Even before this virus, over the last 18months he's done many interviews, r4 today etc... I might not have agreed with everything sunak said, but he's always well briefed, keeps track of his party line and never flounders.

As said above by Gordon a sunak v starmer debate would be a breath of fresh air for UK politics. 

Timmd 20 Mar 2020

In reply to MG: Aah, good point. I shall delete. 

1
Yanis Nayu 20 Mar 2020
In reply to RomTheBear:

I don’t think we’re in a position to give a shit about that at the moment. 

Yanis Nayu 20 Mar 2020
In reply to MG:

Haven’t seen enough to make a judgement, but a first impression is that he doesn’t exude utter cnutishness, like Raab for example. 

MG 20 Mar 2020
In reply to Yanis Nayu:

True, unfortunately, for now. I wonder if Johnson may detect a change in the political wind towards competence soon however?

earlsdonwhu 20 Mar 2020

There's a great piece by Marina Hyde in the Guardian about the contrast between Bojo and Rishi.

RomTheBear 20 Mar 2020
In reply to Yanis Nayu:

> I don’t think we’re in a position to give a shit about that at the moment. 

Well, I just think we should judge his performance based on results.

Seems to be a clever guy with slick communication skills, but it’s not a guarantee of competence, we will see.

Post edited at 19:39
1
Andy 1902 20 Mar 2020
In reply to MG:

Well judging Boris today you couldn't get much worse...

Press person - PM do you consider those not following advice about social isolation immoral and will you be seeing your Mum on Mothers Day?

PM - I don't want to get into discussion about what is immoral or not but I urge everyone to stop all unnecessary social contact as per our advice, I'll be working on Sunday but I hope to see my Mum at some point during the day.

Paraphrased but this sends out mixed messages to me.

MG 20 Mar 2020
In reply to Andy 1902:

It's remarkable. He is a good campaigner but an appalling communicator. And when he tries, campaigning comes out instead. 

Post edited at 20:01
colinakmc 20 Mar 2020
In reply to MG:

First Tory in 2 generations I’ve been able to listen to for more than 30 seconds without swearing at the telly.....but he’s still a Tory. He’s the luckiest Tory chancellor ever cos he’s getting to spend unimaginable sums of money; question is what will he be like in more normal times.

2
Timmd 20 Mar 2020
In reply to MG:

> “Not by numerous sock puppets is respect gained” same source, often overlooked.

Sheep know where it's at, they live simply and in the present 'Feeling Irritated? Nah I'll eat some grass'. 

It's why they're tranquil to watch, they're living Buddhas. ;-)

Post edited at 20:30
1
coinneach 20 Mar 2020
In reply to Timmd:

Living Sunday dinners mate. . . . . . . . 😊

Timmd 20 Mar 2020
In reply to coinneach: Prob best not to send this thread wildly off topic by talking about sheep and Buddhism, when I think about it, though it's an engaging area. 

Post edited at 20:44
1
coinneach 20 Mar 2020
In reply to Timmd:

Aye, just a tad off topic . . . . 

Darron 20 Mar 2020
In reply to Andy 1902:

Not paraphrased at all. Simple fact is he did not say that. He never mentioned when he hoped to see his mum. It was clumsy, yes. He did not however say he would see his mum on mother’s day.

streuth... I can’t believe I’m defending Johnson!! Facts are sacred.

1
Hat Dude 20 Mar 2020
In reply to MG:

> “Not by numerous sock puppets is respect gained” same source, often overlooked.

"We do not wash our pits in the sacred pool of tears" Master Shifu, Kung Fu Panda

Andy 1902 20 Mar 2020
In reply to Darron:

If the press conference is still on line and unedited you will see I'm right.

Darron 20 Mar 2020
In reply to Andy 1902:

In reply to MG:

You would think it would be but I can’t find it. No matter. Not really important.

Best wishes to you.

neilh 21 Mar 2020
In reply to MG:

Have you any views on Cummins.

My view is that he has pushed BOJO into accepting the science and apparently him and Valence get on really well. Cummins used data science effectively to back BOJO.He is on board with a science based approach.

Also prior to the crises,Cummins enforced a very disciplined party,cabinet and adviser approach. We have had no counter briefings leaked. This is impressive for a govt having to lock down on leaks.

I am not a big fan,but possibly in the current situation Cummins is a god send.

Rishi .  Very impressive. 
 

And Labour in all this. Struggling.corbyn must be wishing that another person was in charge.

1
Dr.S at work 21 Mar 2020
In reply to neilh:

Well re Labour  - you really do have to be the loyal opposition at times like this - can get into too much point scoring - glad they are keeping the oaf burgon off the screen

1
RomTheBear 21 Mar 2020
In reply to neilh:

> Have you any views on Cummins.

> My view is that he has pushed BOJO into accepting the science and apparently him and Valence get on really well. Cummins used data science effectively to back BOJO.He is on board with a science based approach.

> Also prior to the crises,Cummins enforced a very disciplined party,cabinet and adviser approach. We have had no counter briefings leaked. This is impressive for a govt having to lock down on leaks.

> I am not a big fan,but possibly in the current situation Cummins is a god send.

Calling the people Cummings listens to « scientists » is a big slap in the face of science.

I’ve been reading from him, he’s a big fans of all the bullshiters pseudo scientists of our age, the types who go on Quillete to promote eugenics. 
He’s the type who listen to anything he wants to hear as long as it is made to look scientific.

1
neilh 21 Mar 2020
In reply to RomTheBear:

I do not doubt that.  On the other hand he has told Bojo that the govt needed to spend more money in research ( thus the proposals in the budget) and he wants to get more scientists into the top level of govt. the civil service agrees with this.

in wider context Cummins is right, even though we hold a low opinion of the messenger. 
 

MG 21 Mar 2020
In reply to neilh:

On tbe the narrow point of science maybe. However he is against the civil service, news media, independent judiciary etc. so overall not helpful 

Jack 21 Mar 2020
In reply to Timmd:

> Prob best not to send this thread wildly off topic by talking about sheep and Buddhism, when I think about it, though it's an engaging area. 

I think they're more into llamas.

neilh 21 Mar 2020
In reply to MG:

 I suspect he has had a bit of a jolt and haswoken up to a bit of harsh reality . If he is bright enough ( which he clearly is) then humble pie and eating it is the best course.

have you read  the Fifth State? Trump also will be waking up to reality.

deepsoup 21 Mar 2020
In reply to neilh:

>  Trump also will be waking up to reality.

I'm going to need to see some evidence for that one!

RomTheBear 21 Mar 2020
In reply to neilh:

> I do not doubt that.  On the other hand he has told Bojo that the govt needed to spend more money in research ( thus the proposals in the budget) and he wants to get more scientists into the top level of govt. the civil service agrees with this.

> in wider context Cummins is right, even though we hold a low opinion of the messenger. 

The problem is that the « scientists » he brought in to advise government are mostly of this kind : https://twitter.com/historylvrsclub/status/1228018464868225026?s=21

Timmd 21 Mar 2020
In reply to Jack:

> I think they're more into llamas.

Very good.

In reply to colinakmc:

> He’s the luckiest Tory chancellor ever cos he’s getting to spend unimaginable sums of money

When Labour bailed out our economy all they got was a reputation of being irresponsible with money. When the Tories do it it's "War-time goverment saving the country".

2
Richard J 21 Mar 2020
In reply to neilh:

> Have you any views on Cummins.

> My view is that he has pushed BOJO into accepting the science and apparently him and Valence get on really well. Cummins used data science effectively to back BOJO.He is on board with a science based approach.

Much as I dislike D. Cummings's other contributions to national life, I think there's no doubt that he genuinely respects and values science and scientists.  Vallance wasn't his appointment as GCSA, but I too have heard they get on very well.  I've met Cummings a couple of times myself in the last few months; in those meetings he listened, he asked probing and informed questions, and he drew out different views from the people round the table.

The problems in the current situation, though, are that (a) science doesn't provide a definite answer, because so much about the disease and the way people react to it aren't yet known (though much is being learned, at speed, from what's happened in China and Italy), and (b) deciding what to do involves tradeoffs that are essentially political rather than scientific - balancing likely loss of life vs economic impact vs views about the importance of personal freedom. 

BnB 21 Mar 2020
In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

> When Labour bailed out our economy all they got was a reputation of being irresponsible with money. When the Tories do it it's "War-time goverment saving the country".

Labour landed that reputation for being profligate before the crisis hit, leaving us with a humungous deficit when things got tight. It's nothing to do with the terms of the bailout, although they and the Tories also copped for that by rescuing banks before anyone else, albeit for very good reasons that are not as well appreciated as they would now be if, instead, they had been allowed to fail, wiping out everyone's money, destroying every business and plunging the country into utter chaos.

5
In reply to BnB:

> Labour landed that reputation for being profligate before the crisis hit

In 2007 the national debt was lower than it was when Labour took office in 1997, so can you explain how Labour were "recklessly extravagant or wasteful" to the point of having a "humungous deficit" before the global financial crisis? 

BnB 21 Mar 2020
In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

Look up the difference between debt and deficit and then note that I said the deficit revealed itself when things got tight, ie after the crash, and only then led to the accusation

in your mitigation, I can see how my wording could be read differently, ie that the reputation emerged before the crash but that wasn’t what I was trying to convey.

1
In reply to BnB:

I understand the difference between a budget deficit and national debt. To say that they had a large deficit is a joke, Labour had been running the country with a surplus for more than 3 years, when they did begin borrowing it was net considerably lower than the Conservatives in the years before Labour's terms. Before the global financial crisis they were borrowing less than the Tories and had reduced the national debt, so again - please explain to me how Labour deserve a reputation for being irresponsible with money? 

BnB 21 Mar 2020
In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

I honestly think there are more important discussions right now and we’re not going to agree, so let’s drop it, eh?  

3
In reply to BnB:

It's not really an agree/disagree topic. Labour have been tarred with the brush of recklessly bankrupting the country by the Tories for a decade now, and people like you further the myth. The numbers are remarkably easy to understand, and unless you think Gordon Brown shouldn't have bailed out the banks then either you agree that Labour are at least as financially responsible as the Conservatives or you disagree with the facts. 

1
RomTheBear 23 Mar 2020
In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

Indeed, there is absolutely nothing in the data to suggest Labour was particularly prolifigate before the crisis. They did increase spending a bit but really, nothing out of the ordinary and would have made virtually zero difference whatsoever if they had not.


This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.