UKH

I have a rat problem. For a while I've occasionally seen them in the garden so have limited the bird seed available for them to scavenge. Now they have invaded my shed/man cave. I have removed all possible food sources but they have started to destroy the insulation and any cardboard they can find. I assume that they are removing it to line their nests. We live next to an allotment so there are loads of opportunities for nesting. 

First I built a tilting lid bin trap and baited it with peanut butter but so far all I've caught is a few mice. I purchased a humane live trap but no luck with that. I've changed the bait in both traps to chocolate on the advise of a mate but still no luck. Next I tried a snap trap baited with chocolate and peanut butter but still no luck. I know they are in there every night, I've seen them and have seen other evidence. Finally I've reluctantly resorted to poison (brodifacoum) but they just leave it untouched.

Last night they were back and there is shredded insulation all over the floor but all traps are untouched. Have I got the smartest rats in the world or what?

Any advise would be gratefully received.

C.

   

In reply to Groundhog:

No you don't have the smartest rats in the world. Unfortunately, when it comes to catching them, all rats are pretty smart.

A few years ago we had a broken drain. The rats came up it and dug their way under a path and out into the garden. We used killing traps and caught seven, but all were young ones; the adults never went near the traps, and I've heard that is often the case. By the time they get to adulthood they are very wary.

Do you know where the rats get into your shed? Can you block the entrances? This could be difficult as they can gnaw through wood - they did in our shed. You might have to stop all bird feeding for a while, but being close to allotments is going to make eradication difficult.

If there is a rat problem on the allotments I wonder if the owners would be agreeable, with perhaps a nudge from the local council, to having a visit from some terriers. Like all other animals rats do not like disturbance and there is little better at causing a disturbance to rats than a few terriers.

Sorry this is not much help.

Dave

In reply to Groundhog:

maybe they have a food stash somewhere? had one in my house who built a nest in the sideboard where it had a stash of peanuts. traps didn't work but it took poison after a while- not before sabotaging my cleaning efforts by cutting through the vacuum cable...

In reply to Tringa:

Thanks for your reply.

Blocking access would not be impossible but would be time consuming and difficult. the roof is corrugated and there are dozens of gaps. I foolishly thought squirting expanding foam into the gaps would do the trick but they just chewed straight through it! I may just get down to it and cut some tin sheet to block access.

The allotment is the main problem as it is not well maintained and there is a poultry plot where there is ample supply of food. I will take your advice and try the terrier option. Meanwhile I'll try different poison.

Anyone want to buy some rat traps?  

In reply to magma:

Them chewing stuff up is my main worry. I've moved my climbing gear elsewhere!

In reply to Groundhog:

Have you tried bait, patience, a good back stop and an air rifle?

Cat food and peanut butter blended and smeared on a wooden plank tends to work well, means they have to sit there and eat it rather than running away with it.

In reply to Groundhog:

Rats can chew through almost anything if they put their minds to it, including thin metal.

If you mix some mortar with broken glass or steel wool to block gaps they are using, they will chew through again but it will cause internal bleeding and eventually kill them.

In reply to Groundhog:

I would agree with the shooting idea if you can dispatch them first time round. Maybe something more than an air rifle is better (friend with such a gun who is v careful with it?).

To Groundhog:

You need to be careful with the Brodifacoum, not to poison neighbour's cats and dogs. Brodifacoum is not as easy to treat for as other warfarin based drugs. (diphacinone (spelling?) is worse), and treatment is protracted. So inform your neighbours.

In reply to Groundhog:

Assuming you have neighbours, I'd be wary of firing guns of any sort in your garden.

I have been told that buying a big bag of the hottest chilli powder your local Asian supermarket sells and spraying it everywhere the rats might go will get rid of them, though not necessarily forever. I've used this tactic to dissuade the neighbourhood dogs from peeing on our gatepost and it works.

Someone suggested terriers, also see if you can locate any ferret owners. Ferrets will get into places a small dog can't and will send any surviving rats packing.

In reply to Groundhog:

https://goodnaturetraps.co.uk/humane-rat-traps/

'Humane' in the sense that it decapitates them. Not that it's a live trap...

In reply to Groundhog:

Cats

In reply to Groundhog:

Weird one this, but try slug pellets as bait.

I only discovered we had a rat problem when all the slug pellets kept vanishing. Made no sense until I saw rats, then put cameras out, and sure enough they were chowing down on them. Makes sense when you realise, the new ones that are no longer an ecological crime are just breadcrumbs mixed with iron and non-toxic to most things, so they don't have the bittering stuff added any more.
Armed with that knowledge I got a couple rat traps and filled the bait cups with slug pellets and caught the whole family within a week.

In reply to Stichtplate:

I have cats,no rats.

In reply to Groundhog:

Blocking access is the only way. Our last house had rats when we moved in. We had a year and a half long battle with them before we found all their entrances. Then a year later they made another one! 

You won't trap adults, they are too intelligent. And they like to return to where they were born to have their young. The breeding cycle is 6 weeks!

It is not a fun game. Be thankful it's a shed rather than your house!

In reply to Groundhog:

Deep plastic barrel, food in bottom, check frequently as they'll eat their way out. Their greed in winter is your best weapon. 

In reply to Groundhog:

Get them to read this article and mend their ways!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-67902966

In reply to Groundhog: I tried diy methods to no avail so called in professional pest control people who sorted the problem very efficiently and not silly money either. Also I’ve seen recommendations (but not tried myself) that peppermint oil is an effective deterrent.

In reply to Groundhog:

I had a rat problem. They had been flushed out of their ‘patch’ by new house building and took up residence under my shed. My springer spaniel got one - that alerted me to the problem. Bought a Fenn Trap which sorted a few. But even when I set it to ‘hair trigger’, the younger rats avoided triggering the trap. So I bought a few big mouse traps (those wooden jobs with spring things). Which sorted the rest. There’s a skill to setting traps - happy to post more detail if you go down this route. 

In reply to Ciro:

That's horrible, is it legal? I heard they put out honey and glass for bears in Spain.

A friend got rid of rats with an air gun.

In reply to Groundhog:

I recently noticed a rat at our place, in the back yard. First one I've seen all my life. Then I saw it again the next day and also that a hole had been chewed in some mesh between us and the neighbour. I bought waxed lumps of poison from Screwfix and put them around what seemed to be the 'rat run'. I used up two tubs within a week and am now on my third as each lump disappeared quickly. Mice (a separate issue inside the house) accounted for one or two but the rats must have had the rest. The pace has slowed considerably now so hopefully the poison has done some work. For now.

Sounds gruesome, but while I could imagine going there with humane traps for mice, and disposing of them elsewhere, I don't think I can with rats.

eta: We are very careful to not leave food sources lying around, but the neighbour does leave food out for the birds. I'd mention the rat, but I am afraid they would befriend it and feed it, just like they do the seagulls. Some people!

In reply to blackcat:

Despite having a cat, who is an enthusiastic ratter, we still have rats in the garden - I suspect he may be farming them for entertainment.

In reply to Cog:

It does sound horrible. AFAIK the commonly used poisons also cause rats and mice to bleed to death internally and I assume this has to be used as the best practical method of control.

I doubt if ground glass is legal and it could harm other animals. I think the poisons are low dosage at least in UK for a cumulative effect to reduce this, as rats and mice are much more susceptible to the bleeding. 

In reply to Groundhog:

Lots to take in there. Thanks for the advice.    Currently I'm going with a multi strand strategy. Effective blocking of entry points to my shed. Better traps and poison (Must try slug pellets). Get a gun and lay in wait. We don't have cat but our neighbours prowls our garden daily to no effect. I think terriers may be a good idea.  The little critters had better watch out!

In reply to NathanP:

We had a serious rat problem in our garden when we still kept hens.

The combination of getting rid of the hens/food source and having a large, predatory cat pretty much got rid of them.

I know there are still lots of rats in the locality as I see them on the road (dead and alive), but don’t encounter them on my property often.

In reply to oldie:

Other animals won't eat concrete. Rats will.

In reply to Groundhog:

Just read through the full thread. Here’s some detail. You need a fenn trap, in its cage, with bricks arranged to make a tunnel leading to the trap (rats love a dark tunnel, and tunnels reduce chance of birds and hedgehogs getting caught accidentally).  With a fenn trap (or other trap), bait it but do not set it. Get the rats used to getting the bait. Very small amounts of Nutella or peanut butter. Once the rat/s are used to the trap, you can then set it. Practice this, watch YouTube videos. Once you’ve caught one rat, bait the trap again but do not set it for a few days - get the rats used to it again.  There really is an art to setting it to a hair trigger. In fact, it should be set so fine that it should ‘go off’ when you are getting it ready. Fen traps have a safety catch to stop it causing you serious finger injury. 

In reply to Groundhog:

You appear to be suffering from the wrong type of rodent ...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/07/mouse-secretly-filmed-tidying...

🤣

In reply to veteye:

A decent air rifle (at the legal power limit before you need a firearms certificate) with a scope is fine for rats at close quarters ( ie less than 20 metres).  Rats are quite regular in their habits, so can be trained to come for food at a convenient position at about the same time every day.  Bird tables are ideal!

Make sure to use a secure bait box with blocks threaded on a bar inside so pets can’t access it.

In reply to veteye:

You need to be careful with the Brodifacoum, not to poison neighbour's cats and dogs. Brodifacoum 

Thanks, I only put the Brodifacoum inside my shed where there is no chance of cats (or my dog!) getting at it.

In reply to Dave Garnett:

Indeed. Lots of people seem to assume sub 12ftlbs air rifles are kids toys, they're not.

If the OP does go down that route he needs a good backstop (I use a paving slab angled down). It's a criminal offence for a pellet to leave your boundary.

He also needs to practice before shooting any live vermin. He needs to be shooting groups smaller than a 5p piece at his intended distance, and know where the kill zones are on a rat.

In reply to Ridge:

Definitely this.  Rat sitings crossing the threshold where I (reluctantly) decide something needs to be done means a refresher session with some targets before engagement.

In reply to Groundhog:

In your situation I would strongly advise NOT using poison. Predators such as owls can die if they eat mice/rats containing poison, and an allotment is a prime feeding area for tawny owls, possibly kestrels. Not so much a problem in a very urbanised environment. 

Edit: at Martin Mere nature reserve, a whole brood of tawny owl chicks died, and the only explanation was that they had eaten mice/rats laced with poison. So whilst you may only place the poison in your shed, the rats and mice will scuttle off, and possibly may live  for a good while if they’ve only consumed a small amount. 

In reply to Bottom Clinger:

I never understood this logic. Set or not, they're going to be wary at first but then eventually take the bait. Why not just get them the first time they go in?

In reply to Bottom Clinger:

+1

Also you don't know where it'll crawl off to die, so you could end up with rotting rat somewhere you really did not want.

In reply to Cog:

It's not much different from poisoning them - either way they'll have a slow and painful death.

In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

Due to their highly cautious and neophobia nature, without pre baiting the trap they are more likely to tentatively nibble some bait which triggers the trap but for some reason doesn’t catch them. They will then be sooooo wary of that trap. Whereas if you get them used to bounding up to the bait and diving in full on, the trap is more likely to snap on them. Also, if you don’t pre bait but catch one first time, any other rats which then see this new trap thing PLUS dead rat will be way more difficult to tempt into the trap, whereas if this rat had seen the trap for a week and didn’t  associate this trap with death, than it MAY be easier to tempt into the trap.

To the OP: if you’re next to an allottment and the allotment has hens, then the allotment will produce a continual supply of rats and mice. You need a long term solution. Air rifles good for the odd one, but I’d have a permanently placed fenn trap, and would keep blocking their holes, annoy the hell out of them  .

ALSO: before our main rat problem we had a temporary problem when we observed mummy rats carrying baby rats from neighbours shed to under our shed. When my springer spaniel went into the garden he realised this, sniffed them out under my shed, went utterly ballistic scratching away at their hole. Rats never seen again. Genuine offer: I live in Wigan and happy to Bob round with him. Rats hate disturbance. Doubt he’d catch one. 

In reply to Bottom Clinger:

Thanks BC. We are in an urban environment. I have never seen (or heard) owls or kestrels near here. There are some sparrow hawks that predate pigeons. Anyway the poultry plot holders regularly put down poison so my bit in the shed won't make much difference.

I am working on blocking up the access holes so will see how that goes and I have ordered some Fen traps.

I am resigned to the fact that I will never permanently get rid of them I just want to stop them destroying stuff. They have made a right mess of the shed insulation and have ruined my fishing umbrella! 

In reply to Groundhog:

I had exactly the same experience, tried all sorts of traps and bait including deadfalls in case they somehow knew the look of a trap. Reluctantly tried poison, untouched. They were doing quite a bit of damage in my kitchen and I'd got to the point of looking for an airgun since I knew where they were coming and going.

I put unbated snap traps either side of pinch points on their underfloor runs in the hope they'd eventually get careless. Weeks later I'd find they'd both been packed with bits of gravel and mortar to disable them!

I cemented up a hole they were using to get into the cavity or more likely out of the cavity to the compost. They dug the brick bits and mortar out while it was still green. I had to put it back mixed with shredded tin can to impede digging and fitted a metal plate over the repair while it cured fully. By that point they were in the walls and attic anyway but one step at a time.

In the end, they somehow overnight stole a kilo of Lindt truffles from on top of my 7ft tall fridge then presumably ate themselves to death! I occasionally find a wrapper in the wall cavity.

A couple of years before I had a similar lesser problem, again it expired at the crime scene after eating its bodyweight in dry dogfood.

jk

In reply to oldie:

A few years back a neighbours dogs both bled to death after finding his rat poison.

There's no nice consequence free way to get rid of rats but poison is one of the worst with the potential to do significant collateral damage. Snap traps are probably the best practical option but fairly ineffective. Cats and dogs are effective and relatively swift killers if they can get to the rats. Not much good if they're in the drain/wall cavity/roof etc.

jk

In reply to jkarran:

You sound like a very seasoned expert. 
My wife wouldn’t let me lay poison for the reasons you have stated so I read up and you are right; introducing poison to the food chain isn’t something I’d like to do. 
Like you, the only way I dealt with a problem was to shore up the entries using chicken wire and scrap metal in cement and expanding foam and then dealt with the internal problem with snap traps (without my wife knowing as she was against those too). They did kill my favourite fern by storing pasta in its pot which was irritating. 
We have an extension now and while building it over the old garage, sure enough they found a hole under the old concrete slab with hundreds of snail shells inside. 

In reply to Groundhog:

I've had success with those ultrasonic pest deterrents, got rid of rodents in my attic. 

In reply to Tricky Dicky:

I'm reluctantly coming to the conclusion we have them in the attic too.  The noises, plus the uncharacteristic complete lack of action in the traps (after a couple mysteriously vanishing) suggest it isn't wood mice.  I think need to figure out exactly how they are regularly getting in and out (they have nights out and get home at about 5.00 in the morning judging from the noise.

In reply to Dave Garnett:

It's a horrible feeling. That's why I have a "death's too good for them", nuke them from orbit reaction to them. Mice, I'm more sanguine about, as they don't destroy stuff anywhere near as bads as rats (which, as noted above, will chew through concrete).

In reply to Dave Garnett:

I was told to tether my snap traps as rats can get their leg or tail caught in a trap and will then drag it off with them, dieing a long lingering death.  The ultrasonic deterrent really did the trick, it was battery operated and we knew when the battery needed to be replaced as we could hear them in the attic again. New battery and they went away again.

In reply to Tricky Dicky:

Interesting, I researched those once only to find there was no evidence to support their efficacy. 

In reply to Cog:

If the rats are starting to arm themselves, I'm going to leave them to it!

In reply to Ennerdaleblonde:

I bought the plug in ultrasonic mouse repellers after a friend raved about them, and it certainly helped but isn't a full on cure.

If it's a 'minor' issue and you want to avoid using traps/poison they are well worth giving a go. But they are only a deterrent, so if the draw of food or a warm space to nest is strong enough they may just do the equivalent of putting in ear plugs and learning to ignore the noise.

I actually bought a cat one after getting fed up of watching them shit over my veg plot during lockdown. With a daily watch (from my COVID induced home work station) it certainly reduced the number of visitors, although the main offender was totally unconcerned (maybe it's deaf? White cats often are).

​​​​

In reply to Groundhog:

This is an interesting thread!

A few years ago my son kept pet rats. We loved them, they were so super intelligent you could train them to do lots and they were very friendly.

We used to let them out for daily run arounds and then gather them up and back in the cages. 

But they do like chewing. One chewed through my telephone cable and 2 committed suicide by chewing through an electricity spark cable on the gas oven and getting a shock. 

I wonder if some mild shock battery cable lying around might do the trick? 

In reply to Babika:

just discovered another stash of peanuts and straw inside a telescope! i'd removed the eyepiece so it had a 2cm hole to get through, but i've heard they can squeeze through much smaller gaps?