UKH

I know that unlike me many on UKC are keen football followers.

Isn’t the attitude of the PFA disgusting and indefensible in refusing a 30% pay cut? Many of the spectators and viewers who pay their wages are facing hard times, reduced pay in order to keep their employers’ business afloat or lost jobs and all that social isolation brings. Many of the low paid staff who keep the grounds running and enabled matches to run are taking pay cuts. The players aren’t even working during the lockdown, just (presumably) training.

what are the prospects of a fans’ backlash when this is all over?

I think that footballers salaries are obscene. But their point that a 30% paycut leads to a £200 million loss to the exchequer is an interesting one.

Certainly the top two tiers in the English game has super-inflated wages but beyond that? And how many players is it in reality? Not that many in the grand scheme of things. 

Interesting that there is this 'outrage' now. A deflection perhaps? Worth noting that there was an election some five months ago where a party who supported taxing the super-rich, lost. 

None. We're loyal idiots! 

https://talksport.com/football/691003/liverpool-captain-jordan-henderson-nh...

Many of the clubs have furloughed the support staff. Their point about tax revenue would have more substance if the clubs had used the reduced players wages to keep the support staff on payroll and not cost the government anything.

Alan

(A football fan who is increasingly worried that this amazing Blades season might fizzle out without properly finishing)

And several, extremely wealthy, clubs have furloughed some of their staff letting the taxpayer pick up the bill. Which is part of the PFAs argument. Who will be benefitting from this 30% saving?

Why just footballers?  What about CEOs and so on?

The Man U players and management approach, if extended seems a sensible one. Dont just give up the money but hand it to specific charities.

So no fan on football but I can see why the PFA would be opposed to a simplistic cut.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/apr/02/pay-cuts-furlough-or-defer...

It's a few days out of date but maybe the headline should be 'minority of clubs furlough staff'. Plenty are doing the right thing in many ways not just paying staff.

That said any sympathy for LFC being given the winner's trophy has just evaporated. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52142267

The row seems to have erupted after Matt Hancock's comments. I'm sure his take on CEO's etc will be forthcoming... 

A high proportion of CEOs have waived much, and several all, of their 2020 earnings. Virtually all shareholder dividends across the entire listed company universe have been cancelled. Across the 100+ companies I invest in, I can’t think of one which has not made adjustments.

This is not entirely a good thing as many pension funds rely on those dividends. But it perhaps counters any hasty assumptions about fat cats, be they Matt Hancock’s or anyone from this parish.

Don't forget the usual sleight of hand of CEOs who say "I have taken a 50% pay cut in my wages". Ok, so in a usual year, what percentage of their pay is wages and what is in bonus and share options .....

Yes, I've seen it at least twice in companies I have worked for.

I know nothing about football so bear with me here. With regards to players getting paid obscene amounts:

Surely the sponsors pay the team an amount of money (probably to the highest bidder), and then the owner of the team offers the players an amount of money to persuade them to join their team? Is it not just 'supply & demand'?

Tbh I'd rather the blokes who are actually kicking the ball around the pitch are getting the obscene amounts of money rather than the blokes in suits who just see it as a business deal (and yes I realise that it'll be both lots getting the ridiculous amounts of money).

I don't really disagree with any of what you've said there. However I do think that MH was swinging at some low hanging fruit re: players. Some football clubs as entities are not coating themselves in glory, I agree. 

Of course. But how do you think those profits are looking in 2020? And have you looked at the stock market lately?

Times have changed. ESG is the new company metric and showing solidarity with the staff, with minority shareholders and the wider world is standard procedure nowadays.

Gordon Taylor and the PFA are dreadful in many regards, such as being backwards in supporting research into head injuries. He is paid a huge salary to be in charge of possibly the smallest trade union.

So far as players taking pay cuts is concerned, surely the only beneficiaries are the owners like the owner of Spurs worth £4 billion, or the woman at Stoke who runs Bet 365??? and paid herself about £350 million last year or Abramavich. The only significance would be if these owners cut the players pay AND decided to keep paying their other staff. The point about lost tax revenue is another interesting slant. Maybe it's best for players  to donate directly to local good causes? Also, while Premier League players/ clubs  can relatively easily forego income, lower down the leagues many clubs could go to the wall. 

How about a maximum wage cap for everybody? Let's say capped at £400,000 a year with 98% tax after that.

It can't be done, it stops the entrepreneurial spirit, everybody good would leave the country, it's globalisation mate, you just can't do it, it's against civil liberties, the government's not taking my bloody money, yer commie, who decides the maximum cap, the tax avoidance lawyers would have a field day, it's been tried before, it didn't work, what like the Soviet Union or Venezuela mate, yeah that really works doesn't it, you are off your head, that's just plain daft, it's really not how economies work, and its 6th form student union politics so just grow up. 

OK, as you were. Carry on then. 

Er..... How about just reducing footballers’ pay while they’re not playing matches as in my OP?

It was a mostly an observational, mildly comic piece on our current politics, that was shoe horned into your thread on footballers wages.

Your suggestion is a far more likely outcome. 

It seems to me that individual clubs at the highest level should manage their finances so as to avoid furloughing staff at taxpayers’ expense. However, I’m not sure why football is being used as some sort of scapegoat for the economic situation. Where is the opprobrium against hedge fund managers? Or Richard Branson, who after suing the NHS had his hand out to the government at the first sign of the virus? 

I agree. But once again footy is the whipping boy on UKC. An easy target for Hancock, whose hapless performances in the light of supply of protective kit and ventilators required him to find a soundbite to appeal to the culture of blame that we have made into a fine art in this country.

There's a lot goes on which deserves credit - but, in keeping with the players involved, this is often not publicised at their wish. Those who universally lambast players would do well to dig a little into the charity-orientated work of erstwhile 'oiks' (sic) as Craig Bellamy...for instance.

Yes, despite having months of warning the government has allowed a situation where NHS staff are dying for lack of cheap equipment and they didn’t act quickly enough to get ventilators in  place for sick patients and testing for NHS staff so they can care for the sick patients, but with one throwaway comment by Hancock we’re all talking about footballers. 

The reason clubs have not independently chosen to reduce footballer’s pay or furlough them is, I think, because it would breach the contract, and allow them to leave on a free transfer.  I’ve got more of a problem with the billionaire owners furloughing their cleaners and office workers and leaving the state to pick up the bill, than with footballers getting their pay. 

Thats only a small part of their job though. They need to keep training and practicing to remain competent. In addition it needs noting that their careers tend to be rather short. PFA gives it as 8 years and others as less so it is a rather major hit.

I couldnt really care less about football but the selective witchhunt is rather offputting. It makes perfect sense for the PFA to want to address it on a case by case basis.

Tbf to Hancock he was asked a direct question about the issue of pay from a journalist and I have seen very few people disagree with what he said... 

Going off tangent, Liverpool's actions are a total disgrace when they made a 42m profit in their latest set of accounts...a total PR disaster. 

Most Premier league footballers will earn more in 1 year than the average person does in a lifetime....so taking a paycut for 6 months or so is hardly a 'major hit'.

No sympathy at all from me if they think it's a witch hunt... 

It's a cheap shot by a health secretary who should concentrate on delivering what he's promised. 

No I’m furloughed on reduced pay because I can no longer generate revenue for my employer. Please could you explain why footballers should be different?

You mean some footballers (though of course it's a club decision). Many clubs are paying full wages to staff. Many clubs are offering services and facilities to local people. There's a link I provided up thread about club captains getting players to donate wages.

Maybe if we want things funded properly (all the time not just in a crises) maybe tax people with exceptional wealth more often...

But yeah, rich young footballers. Easy target. 

Lineker tried the oh what about the evil bankers or ceos but it was rapidly pointed out to him, they are still working, trying to keep a business afloat ready for afterwards, the footballers aren't doing anything.

I hope the public remembers these out of touch footballers and refuse to pay such crazy prices to watch games or buy merchandise in the future. 

I noticed Southgate took a 30% annual cut and said very little, the Man United players think they deserve a medal for 30% of one months pay going to charity. 

But doing what they're asked, surely? Which is nothing. As it should be. Football has been a business since a very long time ago if you delve into the history of the game. Money in the game isn't a new phenomenon. 

So they're out of touch but giving money to charity. OK... 

Not to mention holding a party with bonus hookers too.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52175132

Go on mate, take out the great big brush and tar a whole sport/group of individuals with it. Best not let individual acts get in the way of what is a pretty pathetic narrative...

In the case of the club I follow, its captain (Maguire) has asked the entire squad to direct 30% of their salary to local hospitals - and to my best knowledge that's been agreed...and came without Hancock's attempt to deflect the issue. The much maligned (and tbh, often justified) prima-donna Pogba has set up a charitable fund with £27k direct to local hospitals (he's 27). And the smaller club (City) have been doing similar - Guardiola giving £1m euro to support the efforts in Spain. Small beer I know, compared to their salaries, but at least demonstrating they're not the wholesale amoral and greedy bunch that you'd prefer to support your own position.

Maybe you might want to turn your attention next (and tell Hancock to do the same) to the likes of Branson, Dyson, Weatherspoon, Rees-Mogg and their likes...the Premiership equivalent of industry. But be careful if you do that, because its more than likely that each will have attempted to do something in the way of a positive contribution to support the Corona-response - even though the headlines will always scream about specific actions which (I'd agree) paint them in a poor light. The likes of Gates, Zuckerberg, Ralph Lauren, Bezos, Armani etc etc (to name just a few of the mega-rich) have all dipped in with hefty wads...but, of course, you'd no doubt say that's nothing to shout about because these people are off the scale in terms of wealth. That's not the point.

Truth is, there's 'good' and 'bad' in most of us...and as I sit here, in splendid isolation and a decent space to enjoy, free from money worries & well fed, I could ask myself the question: "Apart from watch Netflix, wander around UKC, read a few climbing books and preserve my professional profile - what exactly have I contributed to supporting those on the front-line?". I am quite ashamed at the answer to my own question.

I didn't tar all. Only the crazy pay of premier league. 

As for the others, they are business owners, those businesses haven't disappeared they still exist and as owners or ceos they have job to do to try and hopefully start again after this. Ie. They are between them massive employers. 

If the football league is cancelled what exactly are the premier league players doing to deserve their millions? Many make additional millions in sponsorship, they don't need any salary. 

The millions they are pocketing come from in the main tv money that Joe public is paying, only the public aren't getting anything to watch whilst these guys pocket millions of their money. 

Back of the net! ⚽ 🥅 

I can't believe folk queue up to defend this lot. Clearly lock down is having an impact on folks mental well being. 

It's bad enough they earn millions for running around for 90mins, now they earn it for doing nothing and whose paying..  everyone with sky sports type subscription (not me).

 Which, and as a football fan I'm with you on this, is a different topic really.

Three or four clubs appear to be handling it appallingly (I can only go if the football websites so it could be more or fewer). But most seem to be doing the right thing by paying non-playing staff full wages. 

Lots of players appear to be making personal donations, which let's face it, they don't need to. 

I usually follow your posts because they're well reasoned and thought through. This last one? Meh, less so. It's not that I'm defending them per se (I think the wages are crazy) but I don't think they really should be the target. 

Subscriptions are paused (I don't pay either). 

I won’t have sky sports due to their wages, I prefer to watch vids of old games.

Being pragmatic, I don’t think that they should take a pay cut unless it’s to prevent their clubs going bust. Voluntary donations to local charities  and stuff to keep up morale, great.

At the end of the day, life is going on outside Covid, it’s just everyone’s distracted and obsessed presently.

This will end, most will live hopefully and all will be tickety boo

I think they should give to local charities. It's the government's job to find the nhs. 

I still think many players are misjudging their fans mood. 

Agree about the funding and if reports are correct, quite a few are to be fair. 

I'll presume you're not a fan of the game (apologies if that is incorrect). That unfortunately (misjudging things) has been part and parcel of the game for years. I would offer that it's more the clubs at fault rather than most players as an entity. Of course some players just don't get it. Most of them are still quite young (if that's any sort of defence). 

Spread it out amongst the ancillary staff, I know we'll still get less in tax, but do it anyway. Clubs have been cutting the wages of the ancillary staff, yet still paying the players full wages. It all feels wrong.

I like how they specifically mentioned the NHS, they could just have easily have said, "There'll be more pothole, if we cut players salaries."

Is that a proven fact?  Footballers are no different to the other super-rich who structure their affairs to avoid tax.

Was chatting with one of my neighbours yesterday (at a safe distance!) who works for a championship club - he was saying the players are all expected to maintain fitness as best they can for when the season re-starts and have all been given training exercises and so on to that end. Therefore, they are technically still "working" full time, even if they aren't playing matches.

It’s a good thing. 

I know that there’s a certain amount of skill in dribbling a ball through the defence and slotting it into the back of the net...... long have these imposters kept the many headed happy.

Football isn’t sport, it’s business. You may as well watch Dragon’s Den really. 
A good result would be a return to proper regional competition. A reset on the whole bandwagon.

I see Liverpool are back tracking and now say they wont furlough their non playing staff but will look for other means to pay them.

Sadly Pepe Guardiolas Mother has died from Coronavirus. 

Wayne Rooneys rant is poorly judged. Can he not understand the negative reaction to the clubs is due to them fuloughing non playing staff yet the players continue to earn hundreds of thousands of pounds a week for doing nothing. It is morally wrong that the clubs are asking for taxpayers money yet fork out millions a week to keep their overpaid stars happy. Apparently Liverpool paid nearly £44 million in agents fees last year. 

Do you have any evidence that if the clubs cut the players wages they wouldnt come to the taxpayer anyway for the others?

No offence to Wayne but the idea that he can be a Times columnist is ridiculous. Just pay the ghost writer and save a few £. William Rees-Mogg must be turning in his grave 

Of course I don't have evidence but if the clubs aren't prepared to furlough the players then why the hell should the government and tax payer fork out?

You are missing the point. They cant furlough the players due to their contracts.

Even if they could furlough them what makes you think they wouldnt be having the taxpayer cover their bill as well?

Some clubs will be in trouble but some of those furloughing the nonplaying staff are more than capable of meeting the cost they are just choosing not to. I cant see it being different if they didnt have the players cost to cover.

You're  missing the point and the point is that furlough payments are limited to £2.5k per month for a maximum of 3 months. It's up to the business if they want to bridge the gap. If the players aren't willing to make the same financial sacrifice that most of the rest  of the country are having to make then their clubs should not be allowed to claim payments against the government. It's a question of morals and there is very definitely a moral vacuum in the Premier League.