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Looking for a recommendation: Headphones

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OK, font of all knowledge that is UKC/H, I'm looking for some headphones - well, they may not be called headphones, but that'll do for a title - and I've hit something of a dead end in my search.  I'm fully aware that the answer is probably obvious and hiding in plain sight, but there you go; I need your help to see it.

The specification is distinct but, it seems, problematic.  I want a small, light set of headphones, the sort that may well be called earbuds, earphones or some other snappy name I don't know.  I don't want anything that involves sticking a tube in my ear canal, as I find that uncomfortable from the off and unbearable before the first side of an album's finished.  I want it to work with Android.  Those three things are non-negotiable.

I would also like them to be good on music replay (I have a decent hifi and don't want to lower my standards too much) and on speech for audiobooks and podcasts; and I'd like them to be wireless, and whether that's two things connected by a wire or other thing going around the neck or two things with no wire between them, I'm not too fussed.  Nothing against wired headphones as such, but i keep tangling myself up in cable or pulling the connector out of the phone when I move, so I'd prefer not to have wires.

I don't intend using them whilst exercising but even so, I'd like them to be stable enough to stay in, or at least give me some warning if they're about to fall out. 

So, any recommendations?  Even if it's something to avoid it'd help.

T.

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In reply to Pursued by a bear:

A little bigger than what you probably want but I use these and they are ace

https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/headband-headphones/wh-ch510

35 hour battery life and the best audio response from any bluetooth headphones I've ever owned.  

For the price , brilliant.  

I use to go through headphones like 2 pairs a month .

TWS

Post edited at 15:45
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In reply to The Wild Scallion:

Thanks for the recommendation, TWS.  You're right in that a pair like that is bigger than I had in mind but since what I had in mind seems invisible to me, a compromise may have to be made.

My issues with headphones of a more traditional style are the tightness of the headband - I really wouldn't get on with anything too tight - and the size of them when you aren't using them and have to carry them around.  From your description it sounds as though these things aren't an issue for you, is that right?

I'll start compiling a long-list and make them the first entry.

T.

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 felt 14 Sep 2020
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

At the other end of the Sony market from the ones TWS recommended, it's a very good time to be buying the Sony WH-1000XM3s as the XM4s have just been introduced. They are unbelievable in most respects, comfort, sound, noise cancelling. I bought a pair to cope with the noise of WFH at the start of lockdown. They were £250 and I see that they are now £189 at pricelulu.

But again, they're headphones not earbuds etc.

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In reply to Pursued by a bear:

> Thanks for the recommendation, TWS.  You're right in that a pair like that is bigger than I had in mind but since what I had in mind seems invisible to me, a compromise may have to be made.

> My issues with headphones of a more traditional style are the tightness of the headband - I really wouldn't get on with anything too tight - and the size of them when you aren't using them and have to carry them around.  From your description it sounds as though these things aren't an issue for you, is that right?

I do nearly everything with these on.   No issue for me . 

The fact that everything else I used broke in a matter of weeks or was just constantly being charged . 

These last ages.  

> I'll start compiling a long-list and make them the first entry.

> T

😀

Also they are 35 queen heads . Bargain

Post edited at 16:27
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 Chris Craggs Global Crag Moderator UKH Supporter 14 Sep 2020
In reply to felt:

> At the other end of the Sony market from the ones TWS recommended, it's a very good time to be buying the Sony WH-1000XM3s as the XM4s have just been introduced. They are unbelievable in most respects, comfort, sound, noise cancelling. I bought a pair to cope with the noise of WFH at the start of lockdown. They were £250 and I see that they are now £189 at pricelulu.

> But again, they're headphones not earbuds etc.


XM3s 100% recommended - really excellent sound, amazing noise-cancelling (brill on planes) and very comfy,

Chris

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In reply to felt:

Thanks for the heads-up.  I've fought shy of noise-cancelling headphones as a function too far; it would appear I need to rethink this.  How effective is it?

T.

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In reply to Pursued by a bear:

I have a similar dislike for those rubber in-ear monstrosities, and I've found that buying original Apple iPhone earbuds (cabled version) solves the issue, at least until it stops being possible to plug them in phones.

I have not found any wireless type I was happy with, though the (hideously expensive) Apple ones might work for me if I wanted to take a second mortgage.

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 felt 14 Sep 2020
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

> How effective is it?

They work amazingly with mid to low frequencies, i.e. cut out all, and I mean all, rumble from traffic, noise from drills, chainsaws, TV, radio etc. It's like you've put your head in a fish tank. And this has an obvious knock-on effect re listening to music/voice, as there's no external noise coming in.

Screaming kids, i.e. high frequencies? Not a complete success, but OK. Muffles the sound rather than cancels it. 

In reviews, it's always a toss-up between these and the two Bose offerings. Some prefer the Sonys, some the Boses.

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 JCurrie 14 Sep 2020
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Similarly off brief to other suggestions but I’d go for Bowers and Wilkins PX7

I have the original PX and they are stunning 

Jason

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In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Sennheiser PX 100-II - light, foldable, over-ear and sound surprisingly good for their modest size, weight and price. They seem to be very hard to find, however!

As in discontinued... which sucks. Luckily mine probably have a good few years left in them before the foam degrades

You can find them, but they are a silly price

Edit: agree with JCurrie - the PX7's do look nice and Bluetooth also.

There do seem to be a lot of horror stories about Bluetooth headphones, however...

Post edited at 23:28
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 felt 15 Sep 2020
In reply to pneame:

> There do seem to be a lot of horror stories about Bluetooth headphones, however...

Yes, it's the XM3s weak point, compared with the Bose NC headphones. They have to be repaired with every device when you switch devices.

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 ianstevens 15 Sep 2020
In reply to Neil Williams:

However the problem with Apple earbuds (presuming you mean the ones that look like a shower head) is that the audio quality is similar to that of a 4 year old’s Christmas carol concert. 
 

To the OP: the above is also true for most earbuds of that design - sound quality is rubbish and they let in a lot of ambient noise - hence why they’re not made that much anymore.

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In reply to everyone:

Thanks for the replies, everybody.  They've helped show me why what I want doesn't exist and that if I want as near as possible to what I want, then the thing that has to be struck from the brief is 'small and light', meaning a more traditional form of headphones is the thing.  That means a decision between something that's noise-cancelling (as a few of you have recommended) or not (as TWS suggested), with there being a price factor of four to seven times between them.

Decisions, decisions.  I'd rather buy once and get it right than buy twice because I got it wrong, which probably means doing the old-fashioned thing and going into a shop, which is just so pre-covid.  Still, at least I now know what I'm looking for, which is definitely a step in the right direction.  Thanks all!

T.  

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In reply to ianstevens:

> However the problem with Apple earbuds (presuming you mean the ones that look like a shower head) is that the audio quality is similar to that of a 4 year old’s Christmas carol concert. 

> To the OP: the above is also true for most earbuds of that design - sound quality is rubbish and they let in a lot of ambient noise - hence why they’re not made that much anymore.

But the problem is that some of us just can't cope with the in-ear (rubber gasket) type.  I've tried a number of different types and sizes and they just don't work for me, they mostly fall out, or if they don't they're grossly uncomfortable, or they don't sit the right way so the sound is odd.

Of course I could just carry a set of on-ear "cans", but they're quite big and don't fit nicely in your pocket.  So I put up with that slightly inferior quality (and I think unless you're an audiophile running top-line kit it is *slightly* inferior, not terrible) for the convenience.  And I'm often listening to Radio 4 podcasts rather than music anyway, so the quality is less important than the utility.

Re the Apple ones I find both the "shower head" shape and the newer contoured ones fine.  Just anything with the rubber gasket that you push into your ear is a complete no-go.

Post edited at 09:08
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 StuPoo2 15 Sep 2020
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

They are at their very best in an airplane like environment i.e. steady high level of white noise.  They'll be able to get rid of that almost completely.  However, they'll do a great job in almost any environment.

Case they come with is excellent.  Battery life is solid.  Lack of cable is great - would never go back to cabled.  

They have some nice extras like Alexa and cupping an ear if someone comes up to speak to you (the latter totally unnecessary ... since for the same amount of effort you could just lift the headphone off your ear - but very cool all the same)

The noise cancelling has the effect of sort of walling you off from other stimuli.   Probably worth giving a quick bash in a shop if you can before you shell out for them.  I've heard some people say they don't like the feeling.  If you were planning to use them out for a walk a night ... maybe you would want to be able to hear a little of what is going on around you???

Highly recommended!

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 StuPoo2 15 Sep 2020
In reply to felt:

I've never had that repairing problem with mine.

Only problem I've had with them is that if you've got them paired with more than 1x device (say iPad and iPhone) ... then they'll automatically reconnect with whatever device you last used them with.

So if I want to switch devices I need to turn off bluetooth on the most recent one to force it to reconnect with the other device.  

Only time I had to repair them was with with the firmware upgrade earlier this year.

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 ianstevens 15 Sep 2020
In reply to Neil Williams:

Oh I agree, the in-ear ones are equally horrible - I've only recently managed to find a pair I can suffer for a couple of hours. I much prefer on-ear, but I mainly use them for music and don't tend to use them "out and about". Only at work or home.

I was more using "shower head" as a catch all for anything that doesn't delve deep into your ear or looks like you're in a music studio. I get that some people love them, but I think that's a minority which is why they're hard to find. (Also aren't the apple ones all lightning-ended these days?)

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 felt 15 Sep 2020
In reply to StuPoo2:

> The noise cancelling has the effect of sort of walling you off from other stimuli.   Probably worth giving a quick bash in a shop if you can before you shell out for them.  I've heard some people say they don't like the feeling.  If you were planning to use them out for a walk a night ... maybe you would want to be able to hear a little of what is going on around you???

They have that function with the second button on the left headphone; the "ambient" setting, where you cut off some but not all external noise, i.e. you won't not hear that bus on the road. It's all programmable via the smartphone app.

> So if I want to switch devices I need to turn off bluetooth on the most recent one to force it to reconnect with the other device.  

Sorry, that's what I meant by "repairing".

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In reply to ianstevens:

In terms of the plug?  There are enough of them still out there that aren't (I suspect primarily for use with Macbooks rather than iDevices, though the iPad still has a headphone socket), though there are also a lot of fakes.

Won't be a good day when it becomes impossible to get phones with physical sockets/headphone dongles.  I'll probably have to switch to on-ear cans, but then it means no mobile listening if I'm not carrying a bag for them.

There surely can't be that few of us who can't deal with the idea of poking a bit of rubber down our ear canals/don't have a regulation shaped ear canal?

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In reply to Pursued by a bear:

I might be late to the party but with a similar wishlist, I asked on here and was recommended here and elsewhere to get these

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07FT2VC5H/ref=dp_prsubs_2

And I got them and I like them. But do note that the distance between left and right seems a bit short, they just about fit me (my neck and head are just on the small side of "average"). If you are chunky-necked or wide-headed, these may not fit. 

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 ianstevens 15 Sep 2020
In reply to Neil Williams:

> In terms of the plug?  There are enough of them still out there that aren't (I suspect primarily for use with Macbooks rather than iDevices, though the iPad still has a headphone socket), though there are also a lot of fakes.

My MacBook didn't come with headphones (strictly speaking, I actually got some free wireless over-ear ones alongside it) and I don't think iPads do either, although could be wrong on the latter. Still, if it provides you a good source of headphones then good for you!

> Won't be a good day when it becomes impossible to get phones with physical sockets/headphone dongles.  I'll probably have to switch to on-ear cans, but then it means no mobile listening if I'm not carrying a bag for them.

I don't think I've used headphones with an actual wire for years... But as for the mobile listening thing. I found that actually I take a bag more places than not; i.e. to work* and the wall, and it's not so much of an issue. Obviously may be different yourself, but I was surprised at how often I carry one.

> There surely can't be that few of us who can't deal with the idea of poking a bit of rubber down our ear canals/don't have a regulation shaped ear canal?

You would think, but seemingly not enough for headphone manufacturers to make them! 

*back in the glory days when people went to work

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 elliot.baker 15 Sep 2020
In reply to felt:

I've been looking at these and the 4's trying to decide whether to pull the trigger or not - I was under the impression Price LuLu was a scam company front though from what I've read on hotukdeals and trustpilot etc.

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 StuPoo2 15 Sep 2020
In reply to felt:

> They have that function with the second button on the left headphone; the "ambient" setting, where you cut off some but not all external noise, i.e. you won't not hear that bus on the road. It's all programmable via the smartphone app.

Ahh .. that's right.  Good point.  

Maybe also worth pointing out to OP that they aren't discrete.  Big set of black cans.  If you walk about with them on outside ... you'll get a few glances.  Not really anyway to hide these things.

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 felt 15 Sep 2020
In reply to elliot.baker:

Oh, I didn't know that. I see they're that price or cheaper elsewhere too.

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In reply to StuPoo2:

> Maybe also worth pointing out to OP that they aren't discrete.  Big set of black cans.  If you walk about with them on outside ... you'll get a few glances.  Not really anyway to hide these things.

I'm not sure why?  Plenty of people (mostly younger) walk round with cans either on or round their neck.

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 StuPoo2 15 Sep 2020
In reply to Neil Williams:

Don't disagree.

Only pointing out that if you like the look of big headphones ... you'll be happy with these.  If you're looking for something discrete - these aren't that.

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In reply to Pursued by a bear:

> Thanks for the heads-up.  I've fought shy of noise-cancelling headphones as a function too far; it would appear I need to rethink this.  How effective is it?

> T.

I got some of these so I could concentrate while my wife was on Zoom meetings and with a building site across the street.  They are absolutely astonishing compared with any headphones I have had before.   So quiet.  Turn on noise cancelling, plus some background music and you are isolated from the world.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07GDR2LYK

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 SuperstarDJ 15 Sep 2020
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

I love my Bose QuietComfort headphones.  I bought them in preference to a new hifi a few years ago on the grounds I thought I'd get more use from them and don't regret it.  I wear them at work and while doing household chores.  The noise reduction is great and the sound is good too.

I had a shortlist and tried a couple of sets on in John Lewis to see which were more comfortable.  The Bose weren't as cool to look at as the Sennheiser but, for me, were more comfy.  They are expensive but given the user I get out of them have been worth it. 

I also have a cheap pair to wear around the house so I can hear background noise - they look great and sound ok.  Also recommended for a blast from the past.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Audio-Rewind-Wireless-Retro-Headphones-Black/dp/B07BTL786T/ref=asc_df_B07BTL786T/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=310868499587&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=15088611537917650346&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9046402&hvtargid=pla-526337088899&psc=1

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 steve taylor 15 Sep 2020
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

I've been using Jabra 65t and 75t for the last couple of years. They are rubber-tipped, but came with a decent range of size tips meaning I can get a comfortable fit (I can wear them for hours on end without any discomfort). Sound quality is excellent and they connect seamlessly to all my devices (windows and Android), battery life is great too.

Samsung have just brought out some new ear buds that don't sit in the ear canal. Galaxy Buds Live. Reviews are good so far so may be worth a look.

My Bose Quiet Comfort, however, are a level above. 

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 Euge 15 Sep 2020
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Check out Plantronics true wireless earbuds 3200... incredible. 

Tick all your boxes.

Euge

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 munkins 15 Sep 2020
 munkins 15 Sep 2020
In reply to munkins:

Thanks, but they all seem to be the sort that stick in the ear canal; so they aren't for me.

T.

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 munkins 15 Sep 2020
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Yeah, not sure they make them the old way. I only wear overheads because I don't like the feeling in my ear.

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 Jack 15 Sep 2020
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

An option for small and light may be bone conducting headphones. Never tried them so no idea as to sound quality. Or you can get ear bud type things with a cradle that wraps around the ear.

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In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Good grief , typical UKC willy waving , this thread. Get the£25ish  Kamtron Marathon ones as per my post UNLESS you have that thick neck or wide head. If you don’t like them I’ll buy them off you at cost plus postage , as a spare pair. Do this before spending ten times the price on massive cans 

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In reply to Blue Straggler:

Well, I hadn't heard of them before and since you'd been kind enough to recommend them I had a butcher's at them on Amazon.  There's one thing that immediately made me wonder whether they'd suit me and that's the way the earpieces hook over your ears to stay in place.  I should imagine that's quite a nifty way of keeping them in position but, and this is what stops me buying them straight away, when I'm awake that space over my ears is occupied by my glasses and I can't see how they'd both fit there together.  What do you think?

It's not always been a willy waving thread, one of the first responses by TWS recommended a pair that he noted have been discounted to £35.  But every response that doesn't involve sticking something in my ear canal has been useful and is on an increasingly long list.  

T.

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 artif 16 Sep 2020
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Having had several sets of headphones, in ear and over ear, I always end up going back Sony. Tried Sennheisers, Bose and many other cheaper alternatives. I have a pair of WH1000XM2's and some Sony in ears as well.

Currently looking at Sony XM4 to replace my XM2's. The noise cancelling is superb on the XM2's I bought them due to spending a lot of time travelling for work and they paid for them selves on the first long haul flight I took with them (they come equipped with cable and aircraft adapter) . The XM2's do have, a well documented, problem with the headband snapping just above the hinge point, which happened to mine and required a DIY repair. I hope the XM4's have fixed this issue.

I have them set up to prioritise sound quality over connectivity and have never had a problem with pairing with my Xperia XZ2 phone, even in busy areas like central London train stations etc

Looking at reviews Sony seem to still have the edge on noise cancelling and the longest battery life.

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 felt 16 Sep 2020
In reply to artif:

Given that the XM3s seem to have solved the snapping issue, I'd guess the XM4s have too. The major problems that remain are the bluetooth thing I mentioned above, their inability to cancel high frequencies and noises like dogs barking, and the fact that they are sometimes on the warm side. Others have noticed this, but to be fair it bothers me less and less. As to the point raised above that they're huge, I'd dispute this; they seem pretty slick to me; not as elegant as the Boses, perhaps, but still understated and low key.

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In reply to Blue Straggler:

> Good grief , typical UKC willy waving , this thread. Get the£25ish  Kamtron Marathon ones as per my post UNLESS you have that thick neck or wide head. If you don’t like them I’ll buy them off you at cost plus postage , as a spare pair. Do this before spending ten times the price on massive cans 

I agree with you absolutely on this. I had moderately good pair of Sony headphones for years, but recently stood on the jack plug so that it became faulty. Did some Googling and bought the highly recommended AKG K72s for £29. They're the type that go right over the ears, so are socially more acceptable and eliminate most extraneous sound. Amazing sound quality for their price (probably has about 95% of the quality of the most expensive Sennheisers). Snag 1: not wireless, but I didn't need that. Snag 2: I see they've now gone up to £40.

Post edited at 10:22
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In reply to Pursued by a bear:

> and this is what stops me buying them straight away, when I'm awake that space over my ears is occupied by my glasses and I can't see how they'd both fit there together.  What do you think?

I will check this; I have not worn my earphones for a few months and in fact I am not 100% sure where they are, but I will dig them out, put my glasses on, put the earphones on, and see how it all goes together, and try to take picture of the back of my ears. 

> It's not always been a willy waving thread

No, not 100%, you are right. 

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In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Have you considered bone conduction headphones?

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 artif 16 Sep 2020
In reply to felt:

Good to hear the snapping problem has been cured, it was the one thing that stopped me buying the XM3's to replace the broken XM2's and my DIY fix is still holding strong.

Not sure on the problem with Bluetooth pairing, I use them on several devices and its a quick and easy process to change. Not sure how it could be made easier?

As for the high pitch cancelling, there is always a bit of sound that is going to get through unless you have massive ear defender style cans. I've used them for woodworking with routers and saws etc, they don't quite match high attenuation ear defenders but they're pretty close.

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 graeme jackson 16 Sep 2020
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

> I agree with you absolutely on this. I had moderately good pair of Sony headphones for years, but recently stood on the jack plug so that it became faulty.

Couldn't you have simply replaced the jack?

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 AJM 16 Sep 2020
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

I have one of the other models from that range - the slightly more expensive one, the K92 (which, incidentally, are also £40 at the minute) and they are definitely good bang per buck and sound good.

For a while I would wear them when I walked to work. I got some with noise cancelling in the end which I found better on the bus - you can listen at lower volume and to music with quiet sections better - but would definitely recommend for the right thing.

To the op:

The ones I replaced them with were AKG NC60 Headphones - they are on ear so a bit smaller than some of those recommended, and there is a wireless version. They have noise cancelling, although the noise cancelling of bigger over-ear headphones is definitely better since you have more passive sound blocking too from the bigger ear cups. If you don't need the noise cancelling then AKG do other on ears of a similar size that are wireless - the y50, y500 etc - that have generally got decent reviews.

Edit: as an aside, the NC60 have now become my work headphones whilst working from home since they have a mic and so I spend several hours each day wearing them for calls etc, if that is any indication of their wearability. I need to shuffle them backwards and forwards a bit when I'm hitting the 2 hour point in a single stint but otherwise am pretty happy with them.

Post edited at 14:44
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In reply to graeme jackson:

> Couldn't you have simply replaced the jack?

That wasn't all that was wrong with them. They were about 35 years old and the padding around the ears had perished badly, and the sound wasn't particularly good. I thought spending under £30 on a new pair wouldn't be so extravagant.

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In reply to Blue Straggler:

> I will dig them out, put my glasses on, put the earphones on, and see how it all goes together, and try to take picture of the back of my ears. 

Currently failing at the “I will dig them out” hurdle! Been so much clearing up and tidying and rearranging going on at Straggler Mansions! Bear with me 

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In reply to Blue Straggler:

> Bear with me 

As long as you don't send that bear chasing me, take all the time you need.

T.

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In reply to Pursued by a bear:

It’s a bear necessity 

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In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Found my Kamtron Marathons! No issues with glasses on, you have to take just a tiny bit of care putting them on but it will become second nature in no time. Putting glasses on after earphones are on, the glasses arms will brush the curved moulded bits of headphones going around the top of the ear but won’t knock them off, you just hear it loudly.


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In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Jaybird Vista are the best I’ve tried for general use including running/climbing.  They are totally wireless, individual earbud style, each with an independent Bluetooth connection.  Sound quality is excellent (for Bluetooth) and they come in a little case that has its own battery and recharges them on the go.  I love mine and my big bose ‘proper’ noise cancelling headphones have fallen out of use as a result.  Downside is the price: about £130 but worth it.  They’re the best I could find when I purchased and have no regrets.

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In reply to Blue Straggler:

You may just have achieved a site first, posting a picture of the back of your head in order to help someone out.  Thanks ever so much for finding your headphones and going to the trouble of taking shots of your ears and head to help answer my query.

I'm going to have to try these myself in order to see if they work but you're making a convincing case for why I should.

Again, thank you.  Service above and beyond and if we ever find ourselves in the same pub, I owe you a pint.

T.

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In reply to Pursued by a bear:

I'll bounce the thanks back at you, you made me look for these and that made me find them  

I make no claim that they are the Holy Grail of earphones, they are just cheap and cheerful and do a simple job quite well. 

Probably not worth it given the low cost of them overall, but if you are happy to cover a couple of quid postage I can post you mine to try on......ah but hang on this model isn't available. Forget that. 

As I said, they JUST fit me and I am not thick-necked or wide-headed. Check reviews to see if anyone comments about this. 

I came to these after finally wrecking a long-favoured wired pair from Koss (similar "hook over the ear, on-ear pad" type thing, similar price) and realising the benefit of Bluetooth (no PHYSICAL weak point where the wire joins either the earphones or the jack socket. Indeed a jack socket on your music playing device can also go wrong, I just lost the left channel from my MacBook and it looks very hard to get to to investigate!) 

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 EdS 20 Sep 2020
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

sennheiser hd4.50 btnc - over the ear (proper headphones), lightweight, folding, noise cancelling and Bluetooth 

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In reply to metrorat:

from the OP

"I don't want anything that involves sticking a tube in my ear canal,"

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In reply to Blue Straggler:

Ah sorry, I overlooked that.  

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In reply to Pursued by a bear:

There's nothing wrong with that bear.

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