Is the red flag a racist anthem

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 JimR 11 Feb 2007
The people's flag is deepest red,
It shrouded oft our martyr'd dead
And ere their limbs grew stiff and cold,
Their hearts' blood dyed its ev'ry fold.
Then raise the scarlet standard high,
Beneath its folds we'll live and die,
Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer,
We'll keep the red flag flying here.
Look round, the Frenchman loves its blaze,
The sturdy German chants its praise,
In Moscow's vaults its hymns are sung,
Chicago swells the surging throng.
It waved above our infant might
When all ahead seemed dark as night;
It witnessed many a deed and vow,
We must not change its colour now.
It well recalls the triumphs past;
It gives the hope of peace at last:
The banner bright, the symbol plain,
Of human right and human gain.
It suits today the meek and base,
Whose minds are fixed on pelf and place,
To cringe before the rich man's frown
And haul the sacred emblem down.
With heads uncovered swear we all
To bear it onward till we fall.
Come dungeon dark or gallows grim,
This song shall be our parting hymn
 Bruce Hooker 11 Feb 2007
In reply to JimR:

Sorry, I don't see what you mean... what part do you think might be "racist"?
 Al Evans 11 Feb 2007
In reply to Bruce Hooker: No?
 Bruce Hooker 11 Feb 2007
In reply to Al Evans:
> (In reply to Bruce Hooker) No?


No what? Or are you replying to Jim?
OP JimR 11 Feb 2007
In reply to Bruce Hooker:
> (In reply to JimR)
>
> Sorry, I don't see what you mean... what part do you think might be "racist"?


Calling Germans sturdy
OP JimR 11 Feb 2007
In reply to Steve Parker:

depends what you mean by sturdy .. I always thought the author had an extra "S"
 winhill 11 Feb 2007
In reply to JimR:

And

"Chicago swells the surging thong"

Could be an early reference to fat-arsed Americans?
OP JimR 11 Feb 2007
In reply to JimR:

seriously calling an Indian "Indian" seems to be treated as a racist statement by the media so surely calling a German "German" or a frenchman "French" is also racist?
OP JimR 11 Feb 2007
In reply to Steve Parker:

remove the "S" from sturdy ...
 Bruce Hooker 11 Feb 2007
In reply to JimR:

Perhaps you are just taking the piss, but in case you are not..

The references to French, Germans, Moscow, Chicago are where other workers are singing the same song and waving the same red flag is, for the authors of the song, a sign of the international nature of the working class movement. France and Germany were countries in which the movement was strong and Moscow and Chicago are iconic towns: Moscow for the Soviet revolution, Chicago for the massacre that lead to May Day becoming an international working class day.

I'm sure I'm missing your point here and feeding a troll, but I've nout else to do and the weather is cold and damp, so what the hell!
 Al Evans 11 Feb 2007
In reply to Bruce Hooker: To the OP, its not racist. Sorry Bruce.
 Paul Atkinson 11 Feb 2007
In reply to JimR: No of course not

takes me back though to see it written out like that

"To secure for the workers by hand or by brain the full fruits of their industry and the most equitable distribution thereof that may be possible upon the basis of the common ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange, and the best obtainable system of popular administration and control of each industry or service."

 Rob Exile Ward 11 Feb 2007
In reply to Paul Atkinson: Although, as Elizabeth Gaskell point out in North and South, the day after such equitable distributon has been achieved some beggar will get up an hour earlier, work smarter and expect to be paid more for it...
 Rob Exile Ward 11 Feb 2007
In reply to Rob Exile Ward: And what's with Steve Parker - posting replies then pulling them???!! One to many Stellas and alcoholic remorse?
 marie 11 Feb 2007
In reply to JimR: I've not seen (or heard) that anthem since having to sing it in a college production...

Sadly, it all went wrong and the cast at the graveyard scene burst into laughter when the pawl bearers dropped the coffin...

But anyway

It brings back memories and strangely I remembered the tune without knowing it was the anthem from all those years ago :oS


The Last Man.... 11 Feb 2007
In reply to JimR:

No.

And as a bonus, a couple more classic old socialist songs:

First the anthem of the cycling 'scouts' of the National Clarion. (An early socialist movement which triggered the tradition of the right in the UK of labelling cyclists as being 'subversives', 'Lefty Guardian readers' and so on. In the 1920's they were simply called 'Bolsheviks!).


The song of the Clarion Scout. Joseph Levy, 1895.

Oh! who rides by day and night, round about
Tinkling his bicycle bell?
Hark now he nears us with laudate shout.
Hurrah! Hurrah! 'tis the Clarion Scout!
List to the story he tells.

What tho' the weather be cold as an icicle,
Bravely he clings to his Clarion bicycle
Scattering leaflets, sticking up label
Filling a breech at old hostelry tables.
Such is the being I'll sing you about.
Three hearty cheers for the Clarion Scout!

(Chorus):
Hurrah for the Clarion Scout!
Hail him with a strenuous shout!
As bold as Lysander
To push propaganda.
Hurrah for the Clarion Scout.

Down to the haunts of the parson and squire,
Putting opponents to rout;
Bestriding his steed with pneumatic tyre,
Through village and hamlet, thro' mud and thro' mire,
Rideth the Clarion Scout.

Nailing down lies and disposing of fables,
Improving the landscape by sticking up labels:
What does he care for the wind and the weather?
Be he alone or a hundred together,
He's always eager to join in a bout.
Then give three cheers for the Clarion Scout.

What do these labels mysterious teach?
What is the message they bring?
Something that comes within everyone's reach:
A gospel of Brotherhood- that's what they preach.
In praise of that gospel I sing.

They say that all produce belongs to the toiler;
To sweep from old England each idler and spoiler
Abolish the sweater and rack-renting knave;
The land for the people- the just and the brave.
These lessons with vigour he's spreading about
It's humanities saviour, the Clarion Scout.



Next the Socialist anthem 'England Arise!

England Arise! Edward Carpenter. 1906.

England, arise, the long, long night is over,
Faint in the east behold the dawn appear;
Out of your evil dream of toil and sorrow
Arise, 0 England, for the day is here.

People of England! All your vlleys call you
High in the rising sun the lark sings clear
Will you dream on, let shameful slumbers thrall you?
Will you disown your native land so dear
Shall it die unheard
That sweet pleding word?
Arise O England, for the day is here.

Over your face a web of lies is woven;
Laws that are falsehood pin you to the ground;
Labour is mocked, its just reward is stolen;
On its bent back sits idleness encrowned
How long while you sleep
Your harvest shall it reap?
Arise, 0 England, for the day is here!

Forth then, ye heroes, patriots and lovers.
Comrades of danger, poverty and scorn.
Mighty in faith of freedom your great mother.
Giants refreshed in joy's great rising morn.
Come and swell the song.
Silent now so long:
England is risen! - and the day is here.
 Bruce Hooker 11 Feb 2007
In reply to The Last Man....:

I think it was the founder of the Salvation Army who said why should the devil have all the good songs? I don't know if it was the devil or not but it certainly wasn't early British socialists judging by these two ditties!

"The anthem of the cycling 'scouts'"... give me strength!

The Red Flag is a lot better... I thought the British Socialist Anthem was "Jerusalem"?

The best revolutionary song is still the Internationale, in French though, or Russian, in English the words seem silly. Sung by thousands of people at a mass meeting with their fists in the air, such things were quite common in the 70s and 80s in France and Italy although a thing of the past now, it was quite moving.
OP JimR 11 Feb 2007
In reply to Bruce Hooker:

Great Russia has welded forever to stand.
Created in struggle by will of the people,
United and mighty, our Soviet land!

CHORUS:

Sing to the Motherland, home of the free,
Bulwark of peoples in brotherhood strong.
O Party of Lenin, the strength of the people,
To Communism's triumph lead us on!

2.

Through tempests the sunrays of freedom have cheered us,
Along the new path where great Lenin did lead.
To a righteous cause he raised up the peoples,
Inspired them to labour and valourous deed.

CHORUS

3.

In the victory of Communism's deathless ideal,
We see the future of our dear land.
And to her fluttering scarlet banner,
Selflessly true we always shall stand!

CHORUS

http://download.sovmusic.ru/m/ussr44.mp3

OP JimR 11 Feb 2007
In reply to Bruce Hooker:

I always associate the Inernationale with the Spanish civil war
 Bruce Hooker 12 Feb 2007
In reply to JimR:

It was sung all over the place but the words were originally by a Frenchman called Eugène Pottier and the music was added by Pierre Degeyter who was Belgian apparently. The words are inspired by Marxist themes about the socialist revolution being the last one and so on - "C'est la lutte finale..."

Some of the verses are better if one doesn't understand the words... somewhat turgid, but most people only know the first verse anyway!

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