UKH

Did anyone see this last night?  

This is the link:

https://www.itv.com/hub/the-dirty-war-on-the-nhs/2a5959a0001

I didn't, but with give it a go, when I get chance. I'm not to sure it'll say much more than we already know, but will reserve judgement till later.

thanks for posting.

It's well worth a look.  Can't understand why this hasn't had more press coverage?

Apparently the ombudsman banned it from being shown before the election incase it influenced voters!

I knew the gist of it but it put it the privatisation of the NHS into context. Non of the parties came out well but certainly puts severe doubt on the Boris / Dominic promise that the NHS is safe in their hands. Any increase in budget is likely to go to private companies, although that has been the case for several years.

This is precisely the type of information that people should have before the vote but I doubt it would have made any difference. 

I already knew quite a lot of the facts presented, but it was an eye-opener all the same.  Very moving in parts, and quite terrifying throughout.  Some of the American stuff came as a surprise to me.

I would urge everybody who possibly can to watch this film, though I fear it's too late now.  It should have been on the telly well before the election.  All that shit about how the NHS will not be for sale to the USA when it's already been on sale since 2012.

I thought about posting about it, but then I'd feel obliged to debate it when some tory dickhead pops up and the inevitable wrangling begins and I honestly don't have the heart for it, I'm finding it all too upsetting and depressing just now.

Quite. 

There was a horrible parallel to the American woman queueing up in a field for some free dental care, who said she'd thought Trump would put a proper healthcare system in place for the USA.  For a second I wondered how on earth she could ever have got the impression that he even intended to try, then I remembered that our own Trumpalike has finally just ascended to the highest office largely on the basis of his colossal lie about an additional £350 million a week to "fund our NHS".

Very good show from a trustworthy reporter......I would implore everyone to watch it.

I've only got part way through it so far, but it's pretty terrifying!

Does anyone know how much of the Scottish NHS is affected by Westminster decisions? I think we have PFI hospitals, but are our drug prices likely to be affected by American trade deals as much as English NHS etc? 

Health is a devolved matter, so reasonably protected as things stand (hence why Scotland has avoided the privatization already seen in England). There's going to to be a lot of pressure from the US to bring powers back to Westminster now though... The NHS is a big prize, they won't want to leave a cook of it alone. Particularly as it would provide stark evidence of the cost of the policies in England.

A successful (and soon) indyref2 is the only way to protect our public services IMO

The big problem comes when they start to shift the costs onto the citizens directly through insurance requirements instead of out of general taxation - at that point the block grant will be cut, and we'll be forced to privatise too.

That might not happen immediately, but it's definitely the goal for many in the Tory party (and the backers of the far too influential Farage)

Which backers? He has no mps and soon no MEPs. 

A couple of links that I think are worth having a listen to and read.

This from the London Review of Books one is long but worth sticking with and shows the NHS has been going towards privatisation for a long time -

https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v41/n21/john-furse/the-nhs-dismantled

This TED talk is shorter but just as interesting - youtube.com/watch?v=Cz5dl9fhj7o&

One of the most disturbing things in it, and one I missed at the time, is that the Health and Social Care Act 2012 removes the duty of the Secretary of State to secure and provide health care for all. Shouldn't that be one of the major, if not the major, duties of the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care?

Here is a link to the background of Allyson Pollock, the presented of the TED talk. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allyson_Pollock

Dave

That's not what I asked is it?

Correct, I was just adding a bit more info to the end of the thread.

Dave

The prospective candidates had to put their own money in. Farage has said he'll refund this. Arron Banks is one backer, allegedly to the tune of £450000 - 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-brexit-party-ar...

Maybe he'll ask for his money back after the Brexit Party flopped. 

Guys like Aaron Banks and  Andy Wigmore

It's not exactly a secret, it's all in plain view. The fits who have been pushing the lenders for brexit are invested in seeing the NHS privatised. Do you think they are going to stop influencing UK politics now that there on the brink of getting what they want?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arron_Banks

Arron Fraser Andrew Banks (born 1966) is a British businessman and political donor.[2] He is the co-founder (with Richard Tice) of the Leave.EU campaign.[1][3] Banks was previously one of the largest donors to the UK Independence Party (UKIP) and helped Nigel Farage’s campaign for Britain to leave the EU

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/anti-eu-leave-campaign-chief...

"but during a visit to the United States, Arron Banks, the co-founder of the group who has given millions of pounds to bankroll the campaign, admitted he was in favour of privatising the NHS entirely."

https://bylinetimes.com/2019/11/18/sick-business-did-farages-leave-campaign...

Arron Banks and Andy Wigmore, two of the key figures in Nigel Farage’s Leave.EU campaign during the 2016 EU Referendum, may have a vested interest in seeing the NHS replaced by insurance-based healthcare.

Banks and Wigmore have been highly critical of the NHS for a number of years, as have senior members of the official Vote Leave campaign, with the MEP Daniel Hannan describing it as a “mistake” on Fox News in 2009.

Last year, Hannan edited a report by the right-wing think tank, the Institute of Free Trade, which envisaged US health companies running British healthcare. The report’s co-authors included representatives from other think tanks, including the Institute of Economic Affairs (IEA), which recommended an insurance-based healthcare system.

However, the NHS and public healthcare in the UK already involve elements of private and insurance-based care and anyone with a stake in these companies might benefit if this model is expanded following a post-Brexit carve up of the NHS.

Andrew Bruce Wigmore is one of the officers of the UK registered Ballard Investment Company Limited which is a subsidiary of the insurance firm Aviva.

The Ballard Investment Company is, in turn, the parent firm of the UK registered firm Health and Case Management Ltd. The companies have shared several of the same officers at different times. Rhoslyn Moore, the financial controller of HCML, is an officer at both companies, as is HCML’s CEO Keith Bushnell.

Health and Case Management Ltd describes its business as “catastrophic case management”.

The company provides “next generation rehabilitation services” for brain and spinal injuries and amputations. The firm’s case managers “work in partnership” with “NHS clinicians”, according to the section of the site aimed at insurers. The firm also focuses on providing services for people injured due to accidents and who are suing for compensation.

Bushell and Moore are also officers at another insurance-related healthcare provider, Excell Medical Reporting Ltd (EMRL), which identifies what treatment patients referred to it require. According to its site “any treatment recommended within an Excell report can be… arranged through a well-established rehabilitation company”. It seems that it is the gatekeeper for HCML and refers patients to it.

HCML and EMRL are the kind of provider and system many Brexiter visionaries envisaged for a post-Brexit NHS. They provide bespoke case management services to patients who have taken out insurance or who can pay, and this is linked to a major insurer such as Aviva. In the event of a switch to an insurance-based care system, these firms, and their parent company Aviva, would be well placed to develop their business. 

The companies are linked to the heart of the Leave.EU campaign. Wigmore was an officer at his pal Banks’ firm, Eldon Insurance Services (EIS), until his 2018 resignation. EIS does deal with catastrophic injury claims and probably refers patients to HCML.

Banks is, of course, an advocate of NHS privatisation. Both he and Wigmore could see the businesses they are linked to grow with a shift to insurance-based healthcare in the UK

aye, god forbid, voters get the chance to go to the polls with some information!!

That's lovely cut and paste but it doesn't tell me how Farage is influenced by Banks? Bank deserted him and donated to the Tory party in the last GE. 

That's a may 2019 article, much has changed in terms of Banks loyalty since then. 

Ps. I wouldn't trust any of them. But the original quote said the current government will be influenced by farage... I fail to see how. 

Corbyn had two years to spread that information, leader of opposition has easy access to national media etc.  Instead he wasted it reading out pretend letters every Wednesday and talking in his local town hall.  

Are you suggesting he failed? 

It doesn't matter who they're going to use to influence things going forward, they are not going to go away.

It's about them, not him. You're trying to pick holes and entirely missing the point.