UKH

CDC suggest pressing the big red covid button

This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
 freeflyer 08 Aug 2021

I can't find a reference to this in the now rather long Friday night thread, and the mainstream UK media don't seem to have picked it up, so I thought I'd post it separately.

The CDC leaked an internal document to the Washington Post containing a fairly hard-hitting summary including vaccine effectiveness for different populations and variants, and some likely controversial recommendations, including:

Delta variant R0 comparable to chicken pox (!)
Relatively poorer protection for the older and immunocompromised.
Mandatory mask wearing recommended.

This is the document in question:

https://context-cdn.washingtonpost.com/notes/prod/default/documents/54f57708-a529-4a33-9a44-b66d719070d9/note/7335c3ab-06ee-4121-aaff-a11904e68462.#page=1

and the WP story:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/07/29/cdc-mask-guidance/

Not a huge amount of new information, but a very different overall message to the official UK one.

1
 wintertree 08 Aug 2021
In reply to freeflyer:

It came up on the continuation of the thread from two weeks ago - a bit discussed here - https://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/off_belay/fncp_36_cont-737539?v=1#x9497757

> Not a huge amount of new information, but a very different overall message to the official UK one.

I think the big difference is in the levels of vaccine uptake in the UK vs the USA.  Mild but infectious spread of delta in vaccinated people is a much bigger problem when they mix with large numbers of unvaccinated and vulnerable people…

2
In reply to freeflyer:

It's not looking great overall, but the picture varies massively by state and county. Or, if we're honest, by presence/absence of maga hat.

Can't summarise it better than Mainwood does here: https://mobile.twitter.com/PaulMainwood/status/1424129890698371072

1
 jkarran 08 Aug 2021
In reply to freeflyer:

We'll get a good look at our future from the Isle of Man over the next 2-3 weeks, they have zero non-vaccine immunity, good vaccine uptake in their generally aged population and a covid wildfire being all but completely ignored as if it's not happening. Plenty of double jabbed folk getting delta. Hospitals starting to fill up and lose staff (sick not dead).

It's a totally balls to the wall experiment I assume nobody in public health planned.

My bet is it'll burn out quite quickly without a crash lockdown but it's a small one i'd hedge! 

The politicisation of vaccination in the US would make such an experiment quite a bit deadlier I'd guess. 

Jk

Post edited at 23:32
1
In reply to jkarran:

Be interesting to compare with Australia, where vaccination is still basically negligible. Looks like they've bought themselves all this time to..... be right where we were a year ago.

1
 racodemisa 09 Aug 2021
In reply to freeflyer:

And the EU are pondering putting the US back on their 'red list' wonder if the UK will follow suit ?

In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

10million doses of AZ vaccine in Australia and yet people are declining it as they want Pfizer much to the frustration of the medical community.

In reply to neilh:

They can address their thank you card to: Tom, Edinburgh, Scotland.

1
In reply to freeflyer:

I'd not quite call mandatory masking the red button, it's a fairly low baseline measure (even though I don't like wearing one).

What I don't get is why there isn't more push for FFP2 and better masks, because they really do work (and protect the wearer, so those vulnerable and unvaccinated would do really well to choose them).  Manufacturing has had plenty of time to catch up.

1
 Ridge 09 Aug 2021
In reply to Neil Williams:

Cost, and they have to be disposed of regularly. For most people a £2 bit of cloth that can be used indefinitely trumps £5 for a FFP3 that has to be replaced regularly.

In reply to Ridge:

> Cost, and they have to be disposed of regularly. For most people a £2 bit of cloth that can be used indefinitely trumps £5 for a FFP3 that has to be replaced regularly.

FFP2s are a lot cheaper and still have an effect, vs the effect of a simple cloth mask which while it has one is very low indeed.

To me supplying them free on the NHS to those who can't be vaccinated or who have weak immune systems would make a lot of sense.

Post edited at 10:17
 freeflyer 09 Aug 2021
In reply to Neil Williams:

> I'd not quite call mandatory masking the red button

I admit it was a somewhat clickbait title.

It is strange that mask type has scarcely come up in the media (that I have seen). I am using up a pack of dodgy Chinese FFP2s and should really get around to some better ones.

 Ridge 09 Aug 2021
In reply to Neil Williams:

> To me supplying them free on the NHS to those who can't be vaccinated or who have weak immune systems would make a lot of sense.

On prescription might be better, otherwise they'll be snapped up by DIYers and builders/joiners.

1
 Si dH 09 Aug 2021
In reply to Ridge:

I thought masks aimed at dust protection generally came with a valve to enable you to breathe out easily. No good for covid but better if you only care about what comes in rather than what goes out. So informed builders and DIYers should be after different products than anything the NHS should be handing out.

TradDad 09 Aug 2021
In reply to freeflyer:

Maybe they're getting impatient with covid as pressure builds to solve the imminent climate crisis. Cue photo of stranded polar bear and Greta on a yacht.   

1
In reply to Neil Williams:

> FFP2s are a lot cheaper and still have an effect, vs the effect of a simple cloth mask which while it has one is very low indeed.

Careful, you'll wake up Offwidth!

 freeflyer 09 Aug 2021
In reply to Si dH:

> I thought masks aimed at dust protection generally came with a valve to enable you to breathe out easily. No good for covid but better if you only care about what comes in rather than what goes out. So informed builders and DIYers should be after different products than anything the NHS should be handing out.

My understanding is that they protect you, but clearly have a minimal effect if you are shedding. However Screwfix have the same non-valve ones as Boots, for the same price. I'm with Ridge on this.

In reply to jkarran:

> We'll get a good look at our future from the Isle of Man over the next 2-3 weeks, they have zero non-vaccine immunity, good vaccine uptake in their generally aged population and a covid wildfire being all but completely ignored as if it's not happening. Plenty of double jabbed folk getting delta. Hospitals starting to fill up and lose staff (sick not dead).

> It's a totally balls to the wall experiment I assume nobody in public health planned.

> My bet is it'll burn out quite quickly without a crash lockdown but it's a small one i'd hedge! 

> The politicisation of vaccination in the US would make such an experiment quite a bit deadlier I'd guess. 

> Jk

....or you could look to Jersey who did the same thing. They had to reintroduce working from home and masks in public a couple of weeks ago. They were fully opened up apart from nightclubs and large gatherings. They have not locked down and had very few cases in hospital, however they were suffering a 'pingdemic' of sorts even though they'd removed the need to self-isolate for double jabbers.

 Ridge 09 Aug 2021
In reply to freeflyer:

The exhalation valve vents unfiltered air to reduce the effort needed to breath out and stops leakage around the edge of the mask, where it can fog glasses and goggles. It also makes them more comfortable for extended periods of use. Both will protect the wearer from Covid, but the vented ones will have much reduced protection for other people from the wearer's exhalations.

Regardless of type provided by the NHS, they'll be hoovered up in large quantities for other purposes if they're 'free'.


This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Loading Notifications...