UKH

I was wandering past Pavey Ark on Thursday and thought, thats a funny name. Does anyone know the origins of it please?

In reply to Godwin:

I suspect the 'ark' bit has the same origin as the 'arke' in Anglezarke. Also seen as 'argh' (eg Goosnargh) and 'ergh' (eg Sizergh). I think it means something like a field, hill pasture or an area of land. The Pavey part is most likely a personal surname/name.

Any unusual noises in Langdale, Wednesday night ... ?

In reply to Lankyman:

There is a Cow Ark in the Trough of Bowland.

The only strange noises were the band in the ODG

In reply to Lankyman:

Possible alternative that the "Ark" element could stem from the Irish "Ard" meaning high or a hill. It would have come with the Norse-Irish vikings who were settling in Cumbria and Lancashire in the 10th Century (same as the "ergh" endings).

In reply to Godwin:

I feel that the Ark comes from arcus, arc, bow and refers to the distinctive shape.

Pavey could be the name of a person, e.g. Pavey's Ark. Pavia and derivative Pavey names exist, e.g. guitar brand.

Alternatively... Pave... paved... pavement.. pavimento... Perhaps there is some connection to the concept of it being rocky or even to the idea of a trodden path (Jack's Rake) that goes up the Arc. E.g. to mean something like: the bow-shaped hill with a path up it?

Perhaps that's just wishful thinking. It would be good to know how old the name is.

In reply to Godwin:

From Stephen Reid and Steve Ashton's 100 Classic Climbs in the Lake District book:

 "The name Pavey Ark probably derives from a mixture of old Norse and Gaelic: Pavia's Ergh - a summer hut among high pastures (belonging, one must assume, to Pavia - the morose one)"

In reply to Sam Beaton:

Thats interesting, thank you. 
There is a Cow Ark near Clitheroe, possibly there are more "Ark" place names, and there is Thunacar Knott, and I wonder if that is related.

The Morose one would seem appropriate, it certainly looked Morose with no sun on it on Thursday.

I thought would have been one of those questions, that everyone knows the answer to, yet this Reid/ Ashton reference is the only one I have come across so far, I wonder what their source was?

In reply to Godwin:

Their book doesn't say unfortunately 

In reply to Godwin:

I had a look and found this from 1921 (see page 337 or ctrl-f for 'Pavia'): https://www.frcc.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/V5-3.pdf

It looks like it was an educated guess back then and remains so today

In reply to Ned:

Well that is interesting, thank you, next time I am having a wander in the area, I may have look for the remnants of the suggested stone hut. 
Oddly that evening I had the opportunity to look through the FRCC, 2022, Journal which I thought was superb, probably one of the best Journals I have read. I was surprised that there had been a few lower grade routes put up on Gimmer, but I suppose if you do not look, you do not find.

In reply to Godwin: Had it not been for that apparently highly researched explanation I would have suggested an alternative etymology although not very satisfactory. Simply ager a field ( whence also acre). Perhaps Mr Pavia had partaken rather too liberally at a dim and distant ODG  before his fellow farmers helped him back up to  Ergh!. and collapsing 

In reply to Godwin:

It originated from when French legionaries were stationed in Cumbria during Roman times bringing their pavé loaves with them. It was customary at the Spring Equinox to go to the top of the cliff and lob said loaves over the edge and listen out for them hitting the screes below:  "Ecoutez pavé!". Subsequently anglicised  to "Hark, pavés" and eventually: Pavey Ark..............maybe

In reply to Bulls Crack:

They presumably ascended via Jacques Rake? You've convinced me.

In reply to Godwin:

“Pavey Ark: There are no early forms for this famous crag but the feminine personal name Pavia or Pavy appears in several medieval deeds and it seems probable that this is the reference here. Ark is a development of the Old Norse aerg ‘a shielding’. Feminine names are often found in conjunction with ‘Shieling’ as e.g. Bethecar. Pavia’s Shieling.”

From Lake District Place Names by Robert Gambles 

In reply to Godwin:

Noah had a big sister called Pavey cos she was quite petite with curly hair and big feet. Anyway one day she was out gathering mushrooms to make a camel and mushroom madras when she accidentally picked a few wrong uns cos she’d been trying out the latest wine the night before and had a blinding head ache. Anyway after the meal her and her brother were convinced that big J , as they called him, was pissed off with them and the rest of the world and was going to send a flood of biblical proportions. So they built a couple of big boats so they could float out the coming deluge. Noah was a bit of an Aspie and collected all the animals etc to repopulate the world. Pavey was a bit of a hare brained pissartist and only managed to collect a couple of sheep, a few rabbits and some ferrets. Anyway Noah landed on a turkey and the rest is history. Pavey landed up near Langdale and her boat sank in Stickle Tarn, hence the name. She wandered down to the ODG with some of her wine and started a tradition there that remains to this day.

In reply to alimckay:

Were these shieling all reputable?

I remember reading that Portinscale is derived from an expression meaning the "Harlot's Hut"

In reply to Godwin:

Yes, but who was Sergeant Man and did he have a Great Cockup and a Brown Willy?

In reply to Godwin:

How about a corruption of patriarch? Googling suggests that this was sometimes spelt (mispelt) paviarch.

In reply to John Stainforth:

I think this would be more likely if the name was applied to Harrison Stickle (or perhaps Pike of Stickle)? They are far more prominent peaks than Pavey Ark. In fact, Pavey is invisible from much of the dale and from most viewpoints looks like a shoulder of Harrison Stickle. It is the biggest crag in the area though.

In reply to Lankyman:

and it has( Nell) Gwynne's damp chimney

In reply to Godwin:

Had a wander over Ingleborough today and noticed there are Arks on the side of Ingleborough