UKH

So decided to have a weekend away in the van over in Wasdale at the NT campsite to recce a few of the BGR lines, never in all my days have I seen such disregard for others form the masses doing the 3 peaks  (driving) challenge, I’m all for people getting out there but my god the NT car park was non stop from 8PM until 3AM, horns beeping, doors slamming, car alarms going off, loud briefings (I heard every word about extra layers etc) engines running, folk shouting accross the car park, it was like a high street on a Saturday night, added to this in the afternoon Wasdale head was full of cars jamming the road, banging music from hot hatches, wheels spinning out of the car park.

it’s really sad to see such a magical place and such a remote valley treat with such disrespect, this surely can’t be sustainable, more for the sanity for the residents of the valley more than anything.....

Bring on winter, Rant over.

I think the vast majority of people doing stuff like the 3 Peaks has absolutely no interest in outdoors and even, dare I say it, the cause they're 'supporting'. I see it way too often, the challenge being just a photo op to show their Facebook friends how much they 'care' (mind you, they'll never donate to the charity themselves or support them after the challenge). I reckon that if selfies were not allowed, 99% would not bother signing up

Sadly, as long as there's money to be made by the organisers of these events, it's just gonna get worse and worse.

Name and shame the charities involved. Its plain disgusting they ignore all the concerns of the locals backed by the conservation groups, landowners, BMC etc. There is nothing wrong with the challenge,  just the organised 24 hour bit which leads to dangerous driving, a complete disrespect for locals, people littering, etc. Please don't arrive in Wasdale, loudly, and disrepectfully in the middle of the night. Copy these links to anyone who asks to be sponsored.

https://www.thebmc.co.uk/three-peaks-challenge

http://www.threepeakspartnership.co.uk/news/

https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/public/mountain-blogs/three-peaks-advice-bmc

Believe me the thought did enter my head of roaming round the car park in my underpants mumbling obscenities and confiscating minibus keys but i was too warm in bed so just put earplugs in and tried to block it out (unsuccessfully) they even woke the dog up which is unheard of...

The overwhelming emotion was sadness really rather than anger.

Excellent post, and thanks for the thread. It's all been said before of course. But it needs saying again

"sadness really rather than anger", absolutely right

It's happening with the Yorkshire Dales Three Peaks as well:

http://www.cravenherald.co.uk/news/16886285.horton-in-ribblesdale-residents...

Wasdale Head village green on a sunday morning can be pretty bad too. Litter everywhere, including toxic glow-sticks, vehicle tracks carved into the grassed areas, and the toilets overwhelmed. The people in the nearby houses must be utterly sick of it.

I've no idea what the solution is. Invent challenges that are more attractive to social media users perhaps? Publicise the lack of wifi in the mountains?

Increase fuel prices by 1000%? 

A wider roll-out of smart motorways (actually limiting people to 70mph, or at most 70mph+10%+2mph) should do the trick, as doesn't it somewhat rely on, er, enthusiastic driving?

I would have imagined that 462 miles of driving for 23 miles walking would be enough to put anybody off but obviously not.

A grumpy old man writes: made a last minute decision to run the horseshoe a couple of months ago. Arrived late and bivvied not far from Pen-y-Pass. The shouting and high fiving went through the night. Gangs coming in to finish whooping it up right next to sleeping camper vans. I'll find a rock further away to climb under next time. Bah!

It can be done within the speed limits in a normal car - it's minibuses and commercial driver regs that throw everything out. Even with 2 drivers you will need to 'stop the clock' for at least 45 minutes somewhere on the journey to allow for the driver rest period, and timings are very tight.

The entirely commercial trips aren't usually the problem, as they are the ones with local MLs keeping everyone on the right path and discouraging anti-social behaviour. They have a vested interest in not behaving poorly, or at least not being seen to behave poorly. It's also a declining market - especially over the last 2 years.

The biggest problems caused by the National Three Peaks (and UK mountain challenges as a whole) are from the self-organised ones. Groups of mates, colleagues and occasionally random groups brought together by a small charity - no professional leaders, nobody to coach them on mountain etiquette and standards of behaviour more likely to be dictated by their own preconceptions or watching what others do.

There are also a number of companies that specialise in providing transport/logistics for self-organised trips. These companies are usually from another sector, usually transport/coaches, and don't have much experience in the mountains themselves or the culture and etiquette of the way to behave in the mountains of the UK. These are usually the ones I see behaving poorly or acting without consideration to tohers or the environment.

It's probably worth noting that the main organisers of the Real Three Peaks Challenge (litter collection one) make a significant amount of their income from the challenge itself - they are hardly against the challenge in principle or practice.

We bivvied near to the summit of Snowdon was few years back, with the aim of an early start to walking the Welsh 3000ers.

Our good intentions were somewhat scuppered by feeling obliged to offer assistance to a group of 3 Peakers that we found shivering in the shadow of the cafe. It was April and had snowed overnight. They did not have a clue how to get down, we gave them food and escorted them to the top of the Llamberis Path.

Perhaps it is time that the national bodies involved with conservation,mountain safety and tourism came together to condemn the Three Peaks activity. It is completely out of line with normal outdoor pursuits with the motivation well summed up by the above correspondent. At the recent opening of the Wasdale Mountain Rescue Teams new base at Longlands near Gosforth a week last Saturday, several of the team members talked about the regular "calls for help" they get on Sunday morning that arise from this event.

What leads you to believe that those causing problems via the National Three Peaks (from path erosion and litter to MRT callouts and irresponsible behaviour) would pay any attention to those bodies, or be in the sphere of influence of that message? As I said above - those causing problems are not really part of the 'mountain community', such as it is.

 

*Llanberis*

Put a gate 8 miles down the road to Wasdale, and lock it 9pm to 7am.  (Giving a key to residents.)

Snipers. 

Make any noise after dark and it’s goodnight Vienna. 

It’s within a local council’s power to serve an enforcement notice on a land owner or business owner if they’re causing noise problems.

Bitter experience taught me (a) they won’t do this without direct witness by a clipboard wielding council official and (b) such clippy types are almost impossible to get out at 3 am on a random day.  Here it seems more predictable so if enough locals complain in the correct manner...  But it’s for chariteeeeeeeeee....!

The abatement order itself doesn’t forcibly stop the noise, but violation of it can lead to more sanctions.

Pubs and bars near houses have to control their noise, I don’t see why a camp site should be any different.  

Stop sponsoring people doing these dumb challenges?

Erect some signs advertising 'Free Glow Stick Top-Ups' at the western end of Wasdale, and direct the buggers to the cooling pond at Building B30 in Sellafield. 

I think this can be quite effective. I’ve not sponsored three-peaks three times recently. When I’ve explained why, I’ve at least seen a dawning realisation on the face of the sponsee. If we all did this, it might have a ripple effect?

A quick google reveals lots of groups organising these things. It's a pretty attractive business model given that the hills are effectively a free resource. Maybe introducing some sort of byelaw requiring licensing of these groups, with an appropriate fee, would reduce their number? Such licensing requiring certain minimum standards of behaviour.

As ever, the difficulty is enforcement. Maybe just ban the whole thing- 'no groups of more than 10 members', no parking etc. Or deny charitable status to participants?

I might be wrong but I think this has been discussed along the lines of the Ladybower closure scheme (not sure at what level the discussion took place). I think there objections as to how it would affect businesses etc. I also believe that it would be assumed that you get a huge convoy descending bang on gate opening and consequently people setting off much later up Ben N. and Snowdon with the attendant consequences.

Best put one in on t'other side at Seathwaite too then.

Thanks for posting these links - very interesting. I understand charities want to raise money but a limit of 200 participants seems way too high to me.

Dave

I don't think that would be very effective.

Granted, I don't know everyone's that are doing these challenges motivations, but in my experience they care less about the amount raised and more about the number of likes their summit selfie will get.

Any rules that could be introduced would be tough to enforce, so I think the only solution would be to publicly name and shame the offenders. After all, they all want to appear to be caring, don't they? Hopefully no respectable charity would want to be associated with littering, reckless and disruptive behaviour and they will start policing themselves (hopefully)

Like they did in Haiti and Chad?  

Unfortunately true in some cases. Give something a name and especially if the word, 'charity' is associated and suddenly people will flock to it. If people want to help a charity then good on them, but feel for some any adverse impact on the local area and community, or the hill, is OK because, its for charity.

Dave

Forgot about that. I have no other ideas. We're doomed

You reminded me of this :

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/man-shout-morning-rave-bris...

Who the hell thought this would be a good idea?

Warning: link text contains spoilers

I'm not sure how things are organised now. Is it just a group decide they will do one of these challenges to raise money for a charity, and the first the charity knows about it is when they receive a cheque?

If so, then making it a requirement that any such group must contact the charity first with details of their intention.

The charity could then be required to register the planned event(when and how many involved) with the local councils. The councils could then agree or not - the group could be too large, or another group could already be doing the event at the same time, or the council might decide large charity events X weekends on the trot is too much.

If the councils agree then OK. if not the event is refused. The councils would know how many events should be going on at any time and where an unauthorised charity event is taking place, the charity gets a very heavy fine, which goes to the local council.

This penalises the charity but if people are trying to help perhaps they might reconsider if their charity is going to lose out.

I realise this is complicated and councils have enough work to do already but other than some sort of control I can't see the situation improving.

Dave

Maybe we need to start a counter marketing push to brand this the 'junior 3 peak driving trip and beginner's ramble'.   Maybe start marketing an alternative 3 peaks challenge from more suitable road heads (Or copyright the term for use only on the 3 peaks by sailing boat or bike challenge.

Good idea, how about Cairngorm + Pen y Fan (Brecons) + Rough Tor (Cornwall)

I have asked a few questions of https://www.threepeakschallenge.uk/ on twitter, they seem to laud themselves as the brain behind the operation, had no reply thus far, although they seem to like retweeting peoples selfies with congratulations, maybe i should setup a new twitter account and retweet them all congratulating them for destroying the environment and making peoples lives a living hell....

I think what needs to be done is to remove the 'challenge' monica.  So just congratulate people on their pleasant stroll and hope they enjoyed the beautiful countryside and the places they were visiting.

Employ the same tactics as the mayor of St Gervais! Permits only...

Or perhaps a few photos/videos/recordings of car parks in the middle of the night, the mess left behind and inconsiderate parking.

Dave

Yes. I get the impression with the 3 peaks that the only one who is completing a 'Challenge' is the poor bugger having to drive......

Interesting to see that that's a private company which has only been in existence since April 2017.

See e.g.:

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/06993751/officers and

https://suite.endole.co.uk/insight/company/10780245-three-peaks-shop-ltd

They charge up to 600 notes for each person for the event when they organize it themselves. See:

https://www.threepeakschallenge.uk/bookings/

Another one this Saturday evidently - https://www.threepeakschallenge.uk/national-three-peaks-challenge/open-nati... :

"7.30pm Saturday - Arrive at Scafell Pike and begin the climb, walking for around four hours.

11.30pm Saturday - Complete Scafell Pike. Hot breakfast provided before driving to Snowdon (four hour drive)."

Now this seems weird: https://www.threepeakschallenge.uk/national-three-peaks-challenge/code-of-p...:

"The Institute of Fundraising's Outdoor Events Code of Practice includes some specific guidelines on the Three Peaks Challenge. The code of practice does not apply to privately organised challenges, so does not affect most groups."

What - the code of practice which relates to behaviour etc. does not 'affect' (sic) most groups??

I think it would introduce an awareness that the three peaks  is a futile exercise in driving more than an ascent of the mountains. Most participants are well meaning and I dont think they are aware of the environmental issues associated with the "challenge" or the effect they have on the locality particularly Wasdale. 

Normal winter weekend trip to Scotland for many I'd have thought.

That roughly describes our detour from elsewhere to Lassen National Park in California.  Mind you I’d sooner do that drive than just about any 100 mile drive in the UK...

Thanks for those links.

There seems to be a Three Peaks Challenge almost every weekend!

The last link is very odd. Seems totally bonkers to say it doesn't apply to most groups  - many of the points should apply to anyone, single or in any sort of group.

Dave

touche

Thanks. That (relatively-recently-formed) company looks like a bit of a smoking gun to me. Presumably the owner is making good money out of promoting these events, and is presumably increasing the traffic and related problems, but the cavalier attitude displayed in the guidance section - i.e. that you really don't have to worry about adhering to any such guidelines - seems totally wrong.

I'm not sure what to do about this mind.

It's just one of dozens of companies that regularly run National 3 Peaks Challenges commercially, plus all of the home-brew ones and those organised directly by the charities themselves:

http://www.mountainandglen.com/the-challenges/

https://www.richmountainexperiences.co.uk/events-challenges

https://www.raw-adventures.co.uk/challenges/3-peaks-challenge/

http://www.activusoutdoors.co.uk/packages/three-peaks-challenge-standard/

http://www.adventure-cafe.com/Adventures/Corporate-Three-Peaks-Challenge

https://www.adventurousewe.co.uk/national-3-peaks-challenge-2019/

https://www.busybus.co.uk/3-three-peaks-challenge

http://www.the3peaksminibushiremanchester.com/three-peaks-challenge-transpo...

http://www.officialthreepeakschallenge.co.uk/three-peaks-transport/

I got bored of copy/pasting but I could easily add a dozen to that list.
 

The origins of each one of these challenges isn't in somebody researching a sustainable, ethical and fun way to explore the mountains - it's most likely in somebody trying to copy the experience that they have seen others have on social media etc.

1. They look into the Three Peaks because it's the one they have heard of
2. They start searching for either an 'open' trip or how to go about organising one themselves
3. They get focused on the trip, the fundraising and any other prep
4. They do the trip

At no point in that process are they likely to start looking into the environmental and social impact on Wasdale and the other areas. It's much more likely that once they have committed to the trip they are going to plough on regardless.

As you say, most people are well meaning - but they also tend to believe that the 'bad things' that come from participating in an activity aren't because of them, it's all the fault of the 'other people'.

Interesting to compare this thread with Dan's from a descent into the nearby gill:

https://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/rocktalk/piers_gill_descent_report-693309

It's bad for the environment in an age where global warming must be taken seriously. By all means enjoy the environment but driving over 400 miles to walk a comparatively small distance is daft. I hate these kinds of contrived challenges that seem to be more about boasting than anything else. 

Christ. No wonder there is congestion, noise, disturbance, etc. at places like Wasdale.

Is there any incentive - let alone, compulsion - for any of these commercial operators to comply with the nominal guidelines designed to address the running of these events? If not, the BMC (or whoever) making statements about it is just pissing in the wind.

It is, but no worse (or possibly even better) than me going climbing or walking at weekends as an individual.  My nearest climbing in the Peak is best part of 300 miles round trip.

For all I agree with finding the whole 'challenge' circus shallow, I would be a hypocrite to criticise it for wear and tear on paths or on miles covered etc. because me and everyone I climb with are part of the same problem.

Antisocial parking, damage, litter, shitting in hedges is another matter completely but it would be unfair to brand everyone who participated in or organised a 3 peaks event to be tarred with the same brush.

Highorse time! Why do these people not do something USEFUL for charity. Get out there and do a sponsored  litter pick. Probably because they are the ones that drop the blinking stuff in the first place.

Grrrrr

It appears there is a “code of practice” that is/should be adopted by commercial organisations and charities.

https://www.threepeakschallenge.uk/national-three-peaks-challenge/code-of-p...

I would suggest a big information sign specifically aimed at 3 peakers located at the key points might help. Other than that you’ll need someone employed by NT to monitor the car parks, note registration numbers of vehicles and ask police to issue ASBOs. 

Yes, plenty of that, i brought down a Haribo wrapper i found stuffed in a cairn.....

Sure. But if you read the link you've posted you'll see the following:

"The code of practice does not apply to privately organised challenges, so does not affect most groups."

I love that use of the word 'affect.' The clear implication is that lip service only is being paid to the code of practice by this operator at least.

Or, if possible, you target the commercial operators in some way via licensing, fines for licence breaches, etc. But I don't know if that's possible.

I think you just need to reduce the cachet of 'challenge'.  Actively branding it a "3 peak leisure walk and hours on the M6 outing" might make it less attractive to box tickers and as a draw for sponsorship.

Perhaps. But the commercial operators have a vested interest in maintaining whatever cachet exists - so as long as they're making money they'll continue to big it up.

Have just had a skim read through the code of practice on that site. Have a look at their advertised timings for a 3 Peaks here: https://www.threepeakschallenge.uk/national-three-peaks-challenge/open-nati...

Seems quite contradictory!!

Having worked as an ML on hundreds of 3 Peaks events - usually guiding on Scafell Pike, but occasionally doing the whole lot. My experience of organised teams / events is that in general there is little / no litter left behind on the mountains or on car park floors by the participants. At Wasdale Head the National Trust do have a person picking litter, so what does get dropped doesn't stay dropped for long. I remember from a night earlier this year, somewhere in the early hours of a Sunday morning seeing a chap picking up litter and thinking wow, the NT are out early! But it wasn't the NT, it was Costa Coffee doing a big clean of the whole area. They had an event running that weekend and were pretty determined to leave the hills cleaner than they found them. I have no connection to Costa Coffee by the way. 

Some teams can be a little noisy when getting on / off buses, and the ML's usually are quick to try and hush this (some more successful than others).

For all enquiries I have about 3 Peaks I always encourage teams to consider their timings carefully in order that they can complete all mountains during daylight hours. This does sometimes fall on deaf ears, but we try our best to advise. Similarly, when asked how long the driving time is between each starting point, we remind people that speeding is not part of the challenge and allowing drivers to have rest stops is vital. Most do seem to listen to this advise.

I disagree with people saying this is a driving challenge any more than having a weekend climbing / walking up in the Highlands is a driving challenge. Yes there's a lot of travel involved and there are more environmentally friendly options. Staying at home for starters!! I'm sure there's plenty of climbers willing to travel to the Alps for a long weekend of climbing. Or come up to the Lakes from the South-East for 1 or 2 days of walking / climbing. Is this not the same? In terms of fossil fuels used it is. There's a certain well known climber based in the South of England who used to (and maybe still does) make regular driving trips to the Highlands for his winter climbing fix. He was / is seen as a hero type figure for being able to do this. Why, because he's 'new-routing'? For most 3 Peakers they are 'new-routing' for them, they've never done it before, it's a new experience and a genuine challenge. Yes there's more environmentally friendly alternatives - Y3P for starters - but folk are naturally always going to be drawn to the biggest mountains, and there's not much we can do to change it. 

For lots of 3 Peakers it may be their first and sometimes only visit to the mountains of the UK. Some will be turned off mountains as a result of the challenge, but will still feel a sense of achievement upon completion. For many, they will explore further and it will be the beginning of a long and fruitful time spent amongst the mountains.  I'm failing to see a problem with this.

The problem is well expressed in the original post.

....non stop from 8PM until 3AM, horns beeping, doors slamming, car alarms going off, loud briefings (I heard every word about extra layers etc) engines running, folk shouting accross the car park, it was like a high street on a Saturday night, added to this in the afternoon Wasdale head was full of cars jamming the road, banging music from hot hatches, wheels spinning out of the car park.

The problem is that the above is a direct result of the activity. 

Let me know where you live, i am free on Saturday evening, i will pop round with a few friends and use your street as a start point for a "challenge"

I'm very well aware of what Wasdale Head is like on a Saturday night. Some may see people like me as part of the 'problem' as I often work on these events.

I've slept overnight at / near to Wasdale Head loads of times in recent years, rarely has there been a noise problem, maybe you were just unlucky that weekend. But then, I live in the centre of a very busy Lakeland town, so late night noise is standard for me. If you really must add to that, head to The Gilded Lily, they do a rather noisy music night once or twice a week

The National Trust operate the car park (and charge for this) adjacent to the campsite, as it was their campsite you were staying at I'd expect you would have had some idea as to what you were in for on a Saturday night based at that campsite. Do they mention anything about noise from 3 Peaks teams?

Forget the campsite and me in that case then as it seems like you think i deserved it, have you ever considered what the residents of Gosforth, Nether Wasadale and Wasdale Head think about it ?

For somebody who makes their living from the outdoors your attitude is pretty disappointing to be honest.

They are part of the root of the problem, encouraging more and more people to the outdoors in order to make a living.  The more people there are, the more assholes you get, simple arithmetic!

I was helping on a BGR sometime ago when a friend got short thrift from a villager at one of the late stops.  We failed to see the problem, but he pointed out that this was repeated every weekend for most of the year.   I kinda got his point.

People just dump themselves there and feel little or no empathy for their surroundings.  Affecting people for whom its their homes and community.  I know if groups did the same next door to me I would feel the same.

Rewilding with re-introduction of long extinct predator species never seemed so attractive.

Reading that Snowdon attracts half a million peeps a year in one of the articles on Hilltalk, many of those I assume from the 3 peaks numpty-thon, not sure what to think about it, but having spent the last three years smashing the arse out of north Wales the rest of Snowdonia is largely empty from a walking perspective. I can go out for days and not meet another anti-social middle aged white male.

Maybe best keep it that way?

D

I'd assume the opposite.  Most people on Snowdon are just people out for a walk and the minority are doing 'the three peaks challenge' - some of whom might also actually be enjoying their walk up Snowdon.

Most of the 3 peaks lot you won't see as they will heading up late evening into the night / early morning? 

D

This maybe true (although I've been on or around Snowdon at most times, sometimes by design !).  What I'm really disputing is that the people doing the 'challenge' are a sizeable proportion of the number of visitors to Snowdon.

No that's not what I'm saying, and of course you don't deserve that.

It's the current reality of Wasdale Head on a Saturday night. Working with teams of 3 Peakers is helpful and does help to keep the noise down. A few hundred people arriving at a venue is never going to be silent. The NT may need to spearhead the way forward, for Wasdale an initial help can be some signage in and around the car park. Some bins wouldn't go amiss either.

What the residents of Gosforth etc think, I don't know the answer to that. I've seriously considered living there in recent times and would still do so, it's a lovely village. Saturday nights there usually sees the pubs pretty lively from what I remember.

The 3 Peaks is an easy target for people to have a rant at, and many people do, you being one. What you're not seeing from the peripheries is that for many this event really is a very big deal, life changing in some cases.

I am genuinely sorry you had a disturbed night there though.

There could be a good argument for banning sleeping in vans in NT car parks overnight I suppose...

Not as many as you think. The vast, vast majority of those cluttering the footpaths of Snowdon are daytrippers. I work on the mountain fairly regularly and have developed a good eye for spotting 3 Peakers - I'd be amazed if they made up 10% of the visitors during June/July/September.

There has been a concerted effort to market Wales and particularly Snowdonia in London and on the continent, and it's worked. How much it has actually done for the local economy is less certain - if you're in the zipline and trampoline business it's probably been good, but not so much for the people who actually LIVE here.

It’s just pushed the house prices up.

Your acceptance of that indicates the problem.

Well, yes. Have you wondered to yourself whether 'a few hundred people' regularly arriving (and leaving) late at night in Wasdale is a good idea?

Signs saying 'Please be quiet' will make absolutely no difference.

Not trying to say it's a good or bad idea. It's what is happening and it will continue for as long as folk want to do 3 Peaks. Wasdale will be busy during the day with day-trippers too. My 'wondering' isn't going to change that one bit. But by being a part of it we can help ameliorate the noise / litter / disturbance / etc. By simply moaning about it most definitely won't change anything.

I always and without exception ask people to consider other challenge type events instead of the 3 Peaks. Most aren't interested in these until they have done the 3 Peaks.

You suggest signs won't make a difference, maybe you're right. But in general car park signs / rules are adhered to by some / many. Can you suggest a reasonable alternative? Bear in mind people are going to do the challenge and will be arriving at Wasdale late at night. Believe me I've tried to reduce the numbers arriving at unsociable hours, it hasn't worked at all. I haven't given up on this and don't necessarily accept it as okay. But it very much is the current state in Wasdale and has been for years.

Maybe a few politely worded letters to the big charity organisers would be a step in the right direction. They're unlikely to be reading a UKC thread, so won't take any notice of this. So why not be a part of the change and get it in the post tomorrow. Lots of letters might just kick start a change for. the better

Just like the 'Great North Run' charities are cashing in on events thus lowering the tone and ruining the countryside(erosion control, litter)

I thought about the Yorkshire 3peaks until I saw a guide wanted £40 a head coupled with the fact its too busy.

This is why I love the North Pennines/Cheviots . Quiet, idyllic and the countryside cash cows haven't ruined them...yet!

I reckon you could have a Red Bull cliff diving event at High Force - turn the river  off at Cow Green and set up a jumping platform from the bowl about a quarter of the way down (the place where that kayaker bailed on his attempt a few years ago, the video sadly deleted from YouTube... Edit: https://www.ukriversguidebook.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=107355 )

Just another aspect of the monetisation of the outdoors.

Organised runs, cycling events, 'challenges'. Instruction, qualifications...

I help with a DofE group. Yes; that makes me part of the problem.