UKH

Can anyone out there check if I remembering this correctly? Type 1 blades/picks slightly narrower so only get the "basic" classification (don't expect them to last as long if you torque them really hard etc.) so used picks designed for ice, while the type 2 ones are slightly thicker - get the "technical" classification, so are usually sold as "mixed" picks.

Does that sound about right?

Thanks all.

Correct. Although I've only ever heard of them refered to as B and T rated rather than type 1/2.

Yeah T rated for mixed and B for ice.

Brands like Grivel do a Ice / Cascade pick and a Goulottes / Mixte pick etc.

I thought the B and T ratings related to whether the axe was rated to belay off of, as opposed to the type of climbing it is intended for?

I remember on the old quarks the T rated picks were so chunky they were crap on ice and I just favoured using B Rated for everthing, that said I probably rarely torgued them that hard!

Thats regarding the shaft of the axe

Ah, that's why I was confused!

My EN/UIAA reference books might be a bit out of date, but it used to be like this, at least back then with the EN‑13089/UIAA‑152, according to Pit Schubert's (former head of DAV) rather excellent book.

Both B and T are the official classification for not just the shaft, but also for the picks (the standard specifies tests for a complete ice axe, not just the standalone pick). Type B: basic, type T: technical.

B had lower strength requirements in all the tests, e.g. 2.5 kN instead of 4 kN for T in certain anchor configurations, or lower torque strength requirement for side torque with the pick in (127 N instead of 182 N).

In addition, type T are cycle‑tested for pick fatigue with the pick stuck in, where it must survive at least 50,000 side‑torque cycles or 12,000 up/down‑torque cycles, depending on the specific pick design (flat or curved).

No idea if any new requirements have been added since then, but the main difference, apart from slightly higher shaft strength requirements, seemed to be the fatigue cycle test requirement for the T picks.

I am sure somebody here has access to the last revisions of the EN/UIAA standards, though, so please correct me if wrong.

A simplified pictorial of the current standard can be found on the UIAA website:

https://www.theuiaa.org/documents/safety-standards/Pictorial_UIAA152%20Ice%...

Cheers! This one seems to omit the dynamic cyclical fatigue tests for type T, though. No idea if these were dropped later from the earlier requirements, or just aren't depicted in this simplified pictorial (it does note it should not be considered a complete depiction). But it does show the static requirements nicely.

Needle Sports have an informative little summary on their site, including a distinction between B/T and Type 1/2:

"New Axe Tests
B and T Ratings have been superseded by new EN Ratings, Type 1 and Type 2:
Both have the same test and strength requirement for the shaft strength test (which best simulates the buried axe/T-Slot technique), so either axe type can be used for belaying from the shaft in a buried axe belay. Where the differences between Type 1 and 2 become more obvious is in the lab tests that try to simulate torqueing/stein pulling and really test the strength of the pick and the pick-shaft interface, with the loads required for Type 2 tools being significantly higher.

So in summary:
Type 1: Standard walking and alpine mountaineering axes, suitable for ice axe belaying, but not designed for hard modern mixed climbing involving torqueing picks etc.
Type 2: Modern leashless tools suitable for ice axe belaying, and also designed for hard modern mixed climbing involving torqueing picks etc.

Thus it is not strictly true that Type 1 = B and Type 2 = T as both tests pass the old T shaft test and Type 2 axes are now being tested for properties that were not previously tested for."

(Can be accessed at the bottom of e.g. this page: https://www.needlesports.com/Catalogue/Climbing/Winter-Alpine-Expedition/Ic...)

This was interesting to me because my understanding was that B and T shafts were different, i.e. T shafts were tested to a stronger standard for T-slot etc. belays.

Not sure how it translates to pick ratings specifically (are there still B/T picks to be attached to type 1/2 axes?) which I realise was the focus of your post. 

And of course it seems that many picks marketed as 'ice' are still T-rated in any case.