UKH

Light, warm for its weight, and well cut for climbing, the FUTUREFLEECE jacket takes a basic outdoor staple to a higher level. In performance terms it's a clear win, but the price may be a bit of a stretch, say Rob Greenwood and Penny Orr.

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I've never really found any fleece (as long as it doesn't have a ridiculous membrane in it) to not be breathable, particularly these days as most of my fleeces that I use regularly for climbing and walking are grid fleece which all seem to breath perfectly. So I'm interested if this TNF one is noticeably more breathable again?

On an unrelated note, Rob sometime you'll have to show me how to do that f6A arete in Little Quarry Curbar, in the pic! I've tried it and the f5+ right hand version a few times and utterly failed on both. I suspect though the answer might be train and get better! 😀

Looks really cool just an intriguing colour selection on the website, For me personally, who likes colour!, the most appealing of them all is black!

This is a very good question. Due to the way it's constructed, with these loops/yarns, it does feel like it allows more vapour to pass through, whilst at the same time trapping more heat. This, coupled with the fact that the loops/yarns have an extremely high surface area, means that it doesn't feel anywhere near as wet as some fleeces can feel when they become soaked in sweat. 

This would probably have been best illustrated with a picture of the 'octa-yarn' alongside a microgrid fleece, because you'll immediately see the difference between the two, although as I highlight within the review - you'll also notice the difference in £££ too.

That arete is an absolute beauty. Maybe once the never-ending series of storms stops we could head up there. I think you'd get blown away if you were up there today!!

I'd have personally favoured something a bit brighter, if only to make it stand out more in the action shots!

Definitely. just find the blue, yellow and red a big much! needs a contrasting zip.

Not terribly green is it? Who actually *needs* this? No doubt made of synthetic fibres aka plastic aka fossil fuel derivatives, which can be shed all over the environment creating micro plastics.

It would be much better to dig that old fleece out from the loft and wear that, but then the multi-national company can’t sell you more stuff.

So is it basically Alpha?

Funnily enough that’s exactly what it reminded me of, but whilst it’s similar it’s not exactly the same. I’ll upload a few more photos tomorrow, comparing side by side.

From some of you running photos on Strava Rob, I've noticed you wearing some brightly coloured furry fleece that looked like 'naked' Alpha. Is it OMM that make them? Anyway, I thought about trying something similar myself. But does the TNF futurefleece breath as well as whatever it is that you run in? 

Not sure why someone downvoted this comment, Toby. Is it the mental image of TobyA+naked ?

Anyway, have you seen: https://senchidesigns.com/

I have the similar Macpac garment. Def warm for their weight. They're pretty specialist though.

'Fleece' covers a huge spectrum... The 'hard face' fleeces do impede airflow; that's the point, to try to balance the heat retention vs moisture escape. The eternal problem of 'stay dry, keep warm'...

Things like ThermalPro HiLoft and Alpha take the permeability to one extreme, at the cost of having practically no wind resistance.  Things like PowerStretch and other 'faced fleeces' have a different balance.

Apologies for any egg-sucking...

Is the 'octa-yarn' not a hollowfibre? As in, an eight-void hollowfibre. A bit like the old Quallofill/Quallofill-8 fibres used for insulation wadding.

Or a profiled fibre (rather than simple circular profile)?

IBQ Thermaskin, used by Montane in one incarnation of their Dyno, also used a looped inner face. The face was nice and robust, but just felt a bit too permeable...

Oh dear! Quite possibly.

Very cool, "hipster" feels very millennial now, I'm not sure if Gen Zers with (still ironic?) moustaches are also hipsters? But if they are, then very hipster. I've found lots of patterns for MYOG Alpha hoodies as well, that make them seem doubly hipster.

I was on holiday at Xmas, first in Japan, then down your way (we did a lovely if tough hike up Mount Bogong, highest peak in Victoria). But when we were in Tokyo, we did a day trip to Kamakura to see the Great Buddha and do a little hike along an actually quite impressive ridge past Shinto temples and then down into the town. But in the town I happened just to walk past a shop selling beautiful backpacking gear, which turned out to be all their own produced stuff - https://www.yamatomichi.com/en/stores/164581 it was all very beautiful and stylish and your Senchi site is rather reminiscent! Yamatomichi use Alpha as well, but I think they have only shelled Alpha - like https://www.yamatomichi.com/en/products/light-alpha-vest-jacket-m Alpha is clearly the hipster fleece of choice!

Absolutely - I keep forgetting to wear it much these day, but I have a Rab Shadow still from this review https://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/clothing/synthetic_insulation/rab_clothing_... Really quite impressively windproof compared to most fleeces BUT I still can't say I have problems with breathability. Sure, it's more wind resistant, so you will be warmer in than an open weave fleece if it is windy. But if you are, say, hiking uphill where I do get sweaty, the sweat gets out of all non membrane fleeces easily I find, including the Shadow in Windpro or whatever that version of fleece was called. I've been pretty impressed with some of the shelled active insulation pieces I have tried like https://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/clothing/synthetic_insulation/arc'teryx_pro... but the Proton still holds more sweat than fleece does. Despite dabbling with other systems, I still seem to end up going back to some sort of fleece, particularly for winter climbing.

I think the difference becomes noticeable if you wear something on top, even a stretch-woven softshell. PowerStretch hangs on to sweat, whereas ThermalPro seems to let it progress further. IME, that is.

My local Maxx has a Montane Alpha jacket (Special Hydrogen Direct), but it's a bit too big for me, otherwise I'd give it a whirl. Has a generic ufibre nylon shell, rather than Pertex: that may account for the 'Special' bit; SMU.

Just wanted to appreciate the pun in the excerpt...   

Sorry Toby, in/amongst the various other things I've got going on I realised I completely failed to get back to you about this - and fulfil my promise of various photos.

The fleece you're thinking of is the OMM Core+ Hoody, which is another amazing layer - so much so that I actually bought one for both my Mum, Dad and Penny for Christmas. You're quite right in it looking like 'naked' Alpha (remember the Rab Alpha Freak from a few years ago?), but it's actually 'naked' Primaloft (aka. Primaloft Active). Its pretty fascinating stuff, and is probably another level of breathability up from Futurefleece, although this comes with its advantages and disadvantages. The major advantage is, of course, how breathable and quick drying it is, but the disadvantage is that it's quite fragile as a result of the lack of a firmer face fabric. You've definitely got to be quite careful with it as a result of this, but bloody hell - it's good. Remarkably good at temperature regulation considering how warm it is, due to the fact it's so breathable, and when you do need something to take the edge off a wind or waterproof basically turns it into a Primaloft jacket.

I've attached three pictures below, which give a good visual indication of the difference between the various products we've discussed, namely 'standard' microfleece, octa-yarn and Primaloft Active. As you can see they're incrementally fluffier, but also incrementally more open and air permeable. They are also incrementally more expensive too!!

Thanks Rob. Interesting review as ever. I have a Rab VR (from around 2017) that apart from the outer fabric 'bobbling' in places is still in excellent condition - the fleece liner on that jacket is amazing (it doesn't have a name as far as I know, it dries and breathes like crazy, better than alpha IMHO. Although I still think you can't beat grid fleeces for versatility (sometimes I'll wear a thin one with a thicker one over the top if moving slow!), you can wear them for pretty much anything and even as a baselayer too. I find Power Stretch very comfy for casual wear but not that breathable (compared to grid) for aerobic activity. 

Thanks Rob - great pics. Funnily enough I was idly googling this the other day (I've been ill so spent quite a lot of last week in bed doing very little!) and found this article https://www.garagegrowngear.com/blogs/trail-talk/alpha-direct-ultralight-fl... where he mentions the Rab Freak which seems to have been fantastic - odd that they stopped making them, but perhaps a few years too early? I did note that Rab have a raw Alpha jacket currently, but the don't do a hoody version, and it is more expensive than the OMM ones (and less cool colours). I might be tempted to buy myself a OMM one to try the Primaloft alternative. Don't tell my family I'm considering this although son no.2 hiked up Kinder with just some of his mates yesterday and keeps nicking one of my old Patagonia grid fleeces now he's 'getting into hiking', so maybe I can justify a new one.

Primaloft Active is very different to what most people are likely to think of when they read 'Primaloft'; they are likely to think of the insulating wadding, which you couldn't use 'naked'. Well, not for long...

https://primaloft.com/technology/

Though Primaloft's website and videos are spectacularly information-free...

That kit looks very good and very well made. Most British brands don't seem to be using Alpha as much as they were previously, I'd presumed due to cost but looking at Senchi, that doesn't appear to be the case. 

It does sound interesting, but maybe a bit too niche? Bit like the R1 hoodie that comes and goes...

I have a mate in NZ at the moment, who will be coming back here later in the year; just looking up the Macpac Nitro hoodie... Would prefer a neck zip, which it lacks. Not convinced by the more casual style,..