UKH

I am walking in Bosnia southeast and need a new sleeping bag. Mine is an Oex EV200, it doesn't really add enough warmth even in the summer. I have now done a bit of research and I think that the UK is a better market for buyers of synthetic sleeping bags than Bosnia, Montenegro, Bulgaria, or Turkey (countries I will be walking through). Partly because I have come to believe that new and second hand Snugpak sleeping bags offer an unusually good quality-to-price ratio (considering things like weight, temperature limits, and robustness), and of course these are made in the UK. Fortunately my friend from the UK is coming to visit me and may be about to take a sleeping bag with him. 

I am looking at a new Snugpak Softie Technik 1 for £60 (reduced in price) and comparing it with the Snugpak Softie 3 (retailing at something like £150 I think). What is the difference between these bags? Is the Snugpak Softie Technik 1 simply a bag which is older than but comparable to the Softie 3, or is the devil in the detail? (Eg Snugpak Softie Technik 1 is not manufactured in the UK or something like that?)

In reply to novice10:

I haven't used either bag, so I can't say for sure, but the temp ratings appear the same (comfort 5C, low 0C).

That said, they're not rated much warmer than the bag you have already, which appears to be rated comfort 7C and low 2C, so if you're really feeling the cold then you might want to get something that's more than just 2C warmer in the bag ratings.

Is there a reason you're only looking at 

1. synthetic bags, and 
2. Snugpak?

There are a lot of good technical companies making synthetic bags for comparable or cheaper retail prices, e.g. 

1. https://www.mountain-equipment.co.uk/products/lunar-ii (a bit warmer) or
2. https://www.mountain-equipment.co.uk/products/lunar-iii (quite a lot warmer although a bit heavier and probably bulkier)

Again I haven't used these bags but ME are a reputable company and the bags are rated warmer than the ones you're looking at. Also cheaper than a Softie 3, coming in at around £100 or so depending on which one you're looking at. Not made in the UK but they do at least make some commitments to fair labour etc.

In reply to mcawle:

Well a new ME Lunar 1 (https://www.mountain-equipment.co.uk/products/lunar-i) is either 5g or 90g lighter than a Softie 3, depending on which stats I'm reading, and is also £50 cheaper. However I think there are more second-hand Snugpaks for over £40 on eBay.co.uk than second-hand MEs, showing they are fine at retaining some of their value. Also there are far more new Snugpaks listed for over £200 than MEs. So Snugpak has a larger presence in the most upmarket niche than Mountain Equipment does in the UK. (Snugpak also has a considerable presence on foreign second-hand markets from what I have seen, eg in Bulgaria). This success must be partly a product of their expertise and high-quality manufacturing know-how. Snugpaks certainly have a reputation for being bombproof (ie very durable), maybe that's part of the reason. 

But from what I am seeing there are more new and second-hand bargains to be had from Snugpak on eBay, maybe just as a function of the number of sellers in the UK (ie you may be more likely to find a bargain among 50 Snugpaks than 10 MEs on sale on ebay at any given time). For example the (older model, but condition new) Snugpak Softie Technik 1 which I found is only 60% of the price of the ME Lunar 1 (although it does weigh 110g more). 

I believe the stats for the oex200 are not reliable. I think it should have a comfort rating of 13C or more. 

Synthetic because I am on a very long walk through the Balkans and Turkey, making it more likely that at some point I won't be able to dry the sleeping bag properly (say if there is no laundrette for a stretch of the route, I am only in guesthouses for three 12-hour periods every week, the weather is wet for weeks on end, and every time I use the sleeping bag it gets a little bit more damp due to condensation. I also like to wear the sleeping bag on my chest, outside the rucksack, to distribute the center of the weight I am carrying further forward.) 

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In reply to novice10:

A Snugpak Softie 3 is not a warm back and comfort @5degC would be optimistic imho. It's not to EN 13537, just Snugpak's figure. I doubt it would be warmer than your current bag.

ME make some of the best bags in the business, this statement, "Snugpak has a larger presence in the most upmarket niche than Mountain Equipment does in the UK" is rubbish.

In reply to galpinos:

I have just looked at the most expensive bags produced by these two companies. Mountain equipment does produce a bag for over $1000, which is more than twice as much as Snugpak's most expensive one. I have no idea why that's not represented on eBay. The real buying and selling must occur in specialist shops in that case, and I am not on that scene.

But the difference in median price for second hand synthetic bags is narrower in the UK: £70 for Mountain Equipment, £45 for Snugpak (on eBay). A new ME Lunar 1 for £100 is about 42% more expensive than the median price for a second-hand ME sleeping bag, whereas the new Snugpak Softie Technik 1 is only 33% more expensive than the median price for a Snugpak second hand sleeping bag. So I'm not sure that a Snugpak Softie Technik 1 for £60 is actually a bad deal?

In reply to novice10:

Depends on your point of view. £60 to still be freezing doesn't seem like the bargain of the century.

In reply to galpinos:

I hadn't heard of the EN13537 standard for sleeping bags. It's a big factor for me whether a manufacturer is as transparent as they can be by comparing themselves against established standards like this. 

In reply to galpinos:

I am not really familiar with how to stay warm at all. Can I improve my situation my using some kind of reflective material as well, to lay down on the ground or to use as an additional layer around the sleeping bag?

In reply to novice10: I rather think the reason ME isn't as well represented on ebay as Snukpak is they sell less, and not many get sold on as there isn't really much to upgrade to.  Happy usees.

 I dont think Snukpaks are bad, but your metric is a bit suspect. 

Are you carrying this on the front ? Doesn't that drive you crazy?

In reply to novice10:

Are you using a foam or air mattress? These can be significant insulation in themselves depending on what model you get. If you're just sleeping on the ground, that may well be your problem (with the ground being a huge heatsink for your body). 

Boil some water and put it in a nalgene as youre going to bed. This is your hot water bottle and will make a huge difference. 

Depending on the fit of your bag, you may be better off putting layers over the top of the bag rather than wearing more inside of it. If you have a puffy jacket with you, you can layer it on top of your feet or body when you sleep. 

In reply to novice10:

It creates a level playing field but it comes at a cost and for a small company like Snugpack selling to the cheaper end of the market I can understand why they don't get their bags officially rated, especially when their target audience will not have even heard of the standard!

In reply to novice10:

You stay warm by:

• creating heat - going to beg warm makes a difference, having a belly full of hot food and jumping around pre bed all helps. You can then add a nalgene of hot water to your sleeping bag (don't get burnt) as a hot water bottle
• retaining heat - this is done through:
  • Your sleeping bag (discussed above)
  • Your sleeping pad - These not only provide comfort, but insulate you from the ground. The more expensive ones have an R Rating (tested to ASTM F3340-18) to compare. Doubling up a foam and inflatable mat can be a good, versatile and economical combo.
  • Your clothing - what you sleep in makes a difference, though make sure you don't wear so much that your insulation does not loft!

In reply to galpinos:

That's a fair point actually, I use a 40 below bottle boot as normally I'm using these techniques in extreme cold, so never thought about that. Might be worth rigging up or buying some sort of cover for the bottle if you don't have one

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:  or use a sock