UKH

Hi all 

Am doing an intro to summer alpine mountaineering course with ISM in about two weeks and struggling with boots.

I've tried the Mantas, Charmoz and Trango but unfortunately find all of them too tight across my toes - unhelpfully I have wider toes than ankles, and flat feet, which pushes the toes forward even with Superfeet.

I've just bought a pair of the Ribelle Lite as the best of a bad bunch (though still bit tight on the width of my toes - unfortunately sizing up just makes them too big elsewhere). The advice says they will take a B2 crampon 'with a flex bar'. What does this actually mean? (Will be renting crampons.) I've given up asking ISM for advice as they keep just telling me to watch their videos. 

Just trying to work out whether this boot will do the job or will be too flexible. I'm really just after any B2, for summer alpine and low grade UK winter stuff. Obviously whether they will fit after a longer walk than I can do at home is anyone's guess - so at this point keen to just buy something and start breaking it (or me??) in! 

Ta.

In reply to Queen of the Traverse:

A flex bar is a more flexible bar for crampons. I know Petzl have an explicit one, not sure about Grivel or how compatible different bars are between brands. E.g. https://www.needlesports.com/Catalogue/Climbing/Winter-Alpine-Expedition/Cr...

The idea is that a standard bar assumes you have a certain level of stiffness from your boot, e.g. a B3 or a stiff B2. Stuff like the Ribelle (and e.g. Sportiva Aequilibrium) are B2 in the sense that they have a rear crampon bail but maybe not so much in the sense that they are bendier. Nicer for walking, worse for front pointing.

My understanding is that more flexible boots put more pressure on the linking bar, and so if it's not made to bend then you can fatigue/damage the standard steel linking bars over time. Whereas the flex bars are made to tolerate that.

You could try the Sportiva Aequilibrium boots perhaps, they are a bit wider in the toe than the Trango although the heel can be a bit funny with crampon fittings it seems.

Also, the Sportiva Karakorum HC could be interesting - it's not very light but crucially it looks like it's predominantly an alpine walking boot that goes up to C2 crampons, so I think that will mean they are more flexible than B3s and might be built for a bit more walking comfort. Looks like they sell them as a unisex model so unsure how the toe/heel fit might be. I have a similar pair of boots (Nepal Trek Evo) and they work well for a lot of walking but also alpine capable.

Hanwag, Aku, Lowa could all be worth looking at but I don't know how readily available they really are in the UK.

Alternatively, if you haven't already - perhaps try some B3s which are sometimes a bit roomier... e.g. I fit into Sportiva Nepal Cubes okay whereas Trango Towers are noticeably tighter across the toes. There are down sides to B3s when it comes to walking and stuff but upsides once actually on snowy steeper ground. And I don't find B3s too bad anyway even for a lot of walking, although opinions differ.

Personally for boots I'd compromise basically everything else (except maybe warmth but less of an issue in summer alpine) in order to get a good fit.

Edit: one option (if you haven't already) is to basically call or e-mail all the decent UK shops with a list of the boots you've already tried and see if they have anything that's wider in the toes, or can suggest something. Rock+Run, Needlesports, Joe Brown/Climbers Shop, Outside...

In reply to mcawle:

Thanks but unfortunately all of the shops around me (including Outside - I don't know why they didn't suggest the Aequilibrium but maybe it wasn't in my size) have the same four options, all of which I've tried! So it'll have to be one of these. 

Thanks the info re bars though. Appreciate the comprehensive answer  

In reply to Queen of the Traverse:

These will be a great boot. See how you get on, if they still aren’t your flavour by the end of the trip. You’ll likely be able to make most of the investment back selling them on. Mountain boots can be a bit like that until you find ones that are a happy compromise for you. 
 

these lighter style boots are great though. I dont know the itinerary of your trip or where you’re going in the alps, but if it’s an intro course lots of the terrain will likely be perfect for these boots. No doubt as you get hooked you’ll potentially want a B3 as the difference in their climbing ability is IMO night and day. Plus b3’s these days seem to offer great comfort for walking approaches or shallower angled terrain, so the benefit of a B2 is becoming somewhat negated. Good excuse to invest in the future! Have a great trip. 
 

This page has a great example of crampon anatomy, include the ‘flex bar’. Any crampons you hire will be v similar, excluding the colour and perhaps how many points they have. 
https://www.ellis-brigham.com/crampons/crampons-buying-guide

In reply to Grit4Life:

Thanks. Was mainly worried that the crampons are being sorted by my course so had no idea if they will have ones with a flex bar, and I won't have any extra time to sort out alternatives before it starts. If a flex bar is standard though hopefully I'll be OK.

In reply to Queen of the Traverse:

The Ribelle’s work well with G12’s and a flex bar and are great for lower grade summer Alpine. I’ve used them on AD routes with no issues. They are ok for short sections of frontpointing but I wouldn’t want to do long pitches. They climb really well on rock and I’ve found them great for low grade winter routes in the UK, although they have very little insulation, so you want to be moving rather than belaying.

I have a similar issue with forefoot width on boots and the Ribelle’s were the best I found until I tried Salewa Rapace’s, which suited my foot shape very well. May be worth trying them if you can find a stockist near you?

Edit- I’d buy a pair of flex bars before you go out, if you’re worried about it. They aren’t expensive and only take 2 minutes to swap the existing bars over. Just make sure they are the same model as the one’s you are hiring. Alternatively, you should be able to buy a pair out in the Alps at any decent gear shop. 

In reply to Queen of the Traverse:

The Ribelle lite is perfect for summer Alpine and lower grade UK winter. I’ve used them on routes up to AD with no issues. They climb really well on rock too. They are not warm boots, so you’ll want to keep moving rather than long belays, in UK winter especially.

I used them with flex bars and they were great, although you wouldn’t want to be front pointing for long sections in them as it really stresses the calf muscles- fine for short steep sections though. The smaller your foot, the less flex there will be but, even in size 11’s with a flex bar, they were ok. 

If you can check with ISM what make of crampons you will be hiring, I’d buy a pair of flex bars and take them with you. It only takes 2 minutes to swap them over. Alternatively, any decent gear shop in the Alps will sell them.

I have the same forefoot issue as you. The Ribelle lites were the best I found, although not perfect, until I tried the Salewa Rapace, which fitted my foot shape very well. May be worth trying if you can find a local stockist. 

In reply to Queen of the Traverse:

Hi

I've been on trips with ISM twice - both excellent experiences, so I'm sure you'll have a fantastic time. Adrian Nelhams has always been very helpful with any queries and has always been happy to provide info. 

With regards to boots, I wore Scarpa Ribelle Lite's last summer in the Alps. Great boot! I borrowed ISM's crampons last year, not sure what they were I'm afraid but they were absolutely fine with the Ribelle Lite's. ISM have a really good gear store at the hotel in Leysin so I wouldn't worry.

Enjoy your trip!

In reply to Queen of the Traverse:

They’ll be fine with a standard bar on the crampons. The flex bar helps to get a better fit as they have quite a pronounced rocker but they fit and work just fine without it.

If you need a wide toe box don’t even think about Sportiva Aequilibrium, they are very pointy and not foot shaped, but of a shame as it’s an otherwise very nice boot. 
 

O would recommend the Scarpa Zodiac Tech, it has a good toe box and is less baggy in the mid foot and instep than ribelle

In reply to Queen of the Traverse: i agree you should be fine.  What size feet do you have ? As I recall form another post you're quite short.... and there is a big difference in flexibility between a 38 and a 45

In reply to Queen of the Traverse:

Whew! Panic over. Thank you all