UKH

I've just been reading the review for this

https://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/camping/tents+bivvys/msr_hubba_hubba_nx_2-p...

Just wanted to understand how it needs to be pitched inner first but can also be pitched with the fly only to save weight.

Can anyone enlighten me?

Thanks

In reply to leon 1:

So you could pitch it outer first then if you wanted to use the inner as well?

In reply to Rory Shaw  Sorry I accidentally deleted my original reply but this video shows how it can be done

youtube.com/watch?v=RTakBn9ehOs&

In reply to leon 1:

Thanks, I'll check it out

In reply to Rory Shaw:

For fly only you need the footprint to stop the poles spreading out or make your own system with 4 lengths of cord. there are some photos showing the set up with the footprint on MSR's website

https://www.msrgear.com/ie/tents/backpacking-tents/hubba-hubba-nx-2-person-...

In reply to Graeme Hammond:

Thanks

In reply to Rory Shaw:

I'm amazing that anyone has the balls to market inner pitch first tents in the UK.  Worst idea ever and offers almost no benefits with many drawbacks.

In reply to crayefish:

Have you ever considered you may be looking at it from a particular perspective, and that this may not align with the majority?

My old tent, that I had for 20 years was a pitch-in-one (inner stayed clipped to outer). It was quick and easy to put up. When it finally died we were looking for another outer first style tent.

When we couldn't find one except for some high-end, or super cheap tents (or heavier geodesic ones like the TN Quasar etc.) I had a long hard think about the number of times I'd actually pitched while pissing down - I could only think of 2 or 3 times in 20 years. Now, don't get me wrong - if you're a regular foul weather camper it could be beneficial. 

Our new tent can have the fly rolled back to halfway for a nice view of the night sky (done this once already) or used in hotter, drier places inner only (spent 10+ nights like this so far). It was also cheaper, lighter and we have more options than niche, UK/wet weather focussed outer first tents.

So yeah, they don't suit everyone. I wouldn't recommend getting a job as a UK tent market analyst any time soon....

In reply to Alasdair Fulton:

Clearly you're a fair weather camper if you don't pitch you're tent in the rain!    Most keen hikers in northern Europe will spend a fair portion of the time in the rain.

Modern simultaneous pitch tents are just as strong/taught and inner first and are much quicker and drier to pitch.  No need to pitch inner first at all.  There is no shortage of decent UK and Scandi models (TN, Hille, Vaude, Hels, Trekker, Fjall, WC, Vango, etc.), at good prices and super light weights if one wants.

Of course, if one lives in Spain or Sierra Nevada, then inner first, without the outer for the view, is perfect.  But for UK weather, inner first is simply dark ages tech reserved for those who are adverse to change. 

In reply to crayefish:

I live in Glasgow, I've pitched it in the rain plenty times, but rarely adverse enough conditions that it would have made any difference if it were not outer first.

TN & Hilleberg don't even get close weight/price/room wise to our current tent (which is quite similar to the MSR, it's a Sierra Designs Meteor 3000).

Here's a challenge for you since you're soo confident a suitable tent is out there. (I had a quick scan through the Vaude website, and the only tents that are a similar weight and space are x2 the price.)

So, the challenge is:

- pitch as one/out first tent

- roomy for 2 people, with good sitting up height (my old Vango Spirit 200+ was not good in this respect)

- <2.2kg

- recycled / eco friendly materials (haha, this one might screw you

- <£250

Was just looking at Helsport tents and apparently they don't ship to the UK anymore, another Brexshit bonus!

Funny you mention people not liking change? Did you read my post? Ask anyone that knows me and they'll tell you I'm always the first one looking at new developments and/or imagining new ways of doing things. You probably couldn't have read it more wrong if you tried...

In reply to Alasdair Fulton:

Relax old boy, I wasn't targeting it at you specifically.    Just a general observation.

Actually one of my (admittedly numerous) tents is a Vango Xenon UL 2+, which is a 2 person tunnel with extended porch (great for foul weather and I can even fit my bike inside the porch).  It's 2.2 kgs and has lots of space... I used it for solo hiking until I got my custom Phreeranger.  Has some limitations as it's Nylon fly (absorbs water) but then so is the Hubba so they both have limitations here.  However, the fly on the Hubba is much higher from the ground which is largely useless for wet and windy weather in the UK.

In reply to crayefish:

That Xenon looks like the natural evolution of the spirit 200+ I had. It was remarkably good in bad weather for it's price, and not too heavy but you really needed a big flat pitch with good peg points to get it to work, and any hint of rain or condensation made it sag massively, and it was horrible to spend eny extended time in as all tunnel tents are - narrow, low, awkward to get in and out.

Really, there's so much variation in people's requirements that sweeping statements are just a bit pointless.

In reply to Rory Shaw:

You can do this with my tent*, a BA Tiger Wall**. However, it’s a total ballache (only test pitched it like this on the garden), a lot harder to get a good pitch and I would only do it in an absolute torrential downpour. I can get the tent up pretty quickly on my own and with two people (assuming the other person follows my strict instructions!) the inner is exposed for so little time it doesn’t really get wet.

*Pitch outer first with groundsheet then add in the inner
**More like the MSR Freelite than the Hubba 

In reply to crayefish:

After thirty odd years of using both inner first and outer first tents, my experience says it depends.

Inner first tents are usually lighter than outer first tents with all other characteristics taken in to account. That is important when strength vs. Weight is important or absolute weight is important.

If it is really heavy rain it is nicer to pitch and particularly strike camp in an outer first tent, particularly one with a large porch. That said, the outer first tents that I have owned have taken longer to pitch than inner first.

My most recent purchase was an ultra light inner first tent, which I took to one of the wettest places on Earth, many times wetter than anywhere in the U.K. I rained a lot, but was fine with an inner first tent.

In reply to crayefish:

What are these many drawbacks apart from the occasional times putting it up in heavy rain? I'd always go for the simplicity and stability of inner first over the faff of outer first.

In reply to crayefish:

In my experience the hubba is so quick to pitch that even in terrible conditions you're unlikely to have any issues. It's actually possible to pitch it under the outer layer as well with a bit of practice.

In reply to Rory Shaw:

The Hubba is very easy and quick to pitch and doesn't get wet inside if you're careful. It's an excellent tent and I've used it in UK/EU/Skandi without issues. 

In reply to Robert Durran:

I don't really see how an inner first is less faff or more simple... it involves more actions if anything.  Outer first (with inner combined... I'm not referring to the type where one has to clip the inner inside after pitching the outer) involves the same erecting of the poles and tent, but without having to then throw the fly on over the top.  And multiple pieces just increases the chances of something blowing away during setup in strong winds.

My ancient Vaude Hogan (with the shock cord pole system) went up quicker than any tent I've ever known, but a tunnel goes up in not much more time (2 pegs, poles in, 2 pegs and its up!) but I appreciate that tunnels aren't for everyone.

I've also never felt wanting for more stability from any of my tents within the expected usage parameters.  Sure, my Keron is as noisy as buggery in 100+ kph winds, but the vertical walls and great space to weight ratio was a conscious choice over say a Saivo.  And when I'm using my Phreeranger, I'd also not plan for it in the same conditions because that's not what its designed for.

In reply to Graeme Hammond:

Presumably 2 diagonal lengths would work - only needs to keep tension until the inner is in - I might try this at home...

In reply to crayefish:

If the inner is combined, you lose some of the advantages of an outer first tent and if you pack it up in the wet, you have a wet inner when you put it up the next night.

In reply to Graeme Hammond:

I just tried this at home - no cord or groundsheet required, just hook the pole ends into the tabs in the corners of the fly and the tension will make it into a tent shape (then do the middle spreader). Pegs required for the doors but that’s the same with the inner in too.