UKH

Used my shiny new climbing shoes at the indoor wall yesterday but had to swap to my old one's after 4 climbs due to the pain at the tip of my left big toe. They are Scarpa Quantic SF - a half size smaller than my street shoes.

How long before they become far less painful? Looking online, advice ranges from 4 sessions to, they will never stop being very painful. Is there hope for me with these shoes? 

I'm trying to climb 6b+ consistently, or higher. Thanks 👍

In reply to DizzyVizion:

If it's synthetic uppers, I don't think they will stretch that much (at least compared to leather). They should give a little though. Have you tried wearing them dunked in a bowl of quite warm water for 20min or so?

In reply to Jon Read:

I believe they are synthetic 🫤 But I will try the warm water tip 👍🤞 Thank you 

In reply to DizzyVizion:

They are indeed synthetic and generally won't stretch,  maybe give a bit but not stretch in the traditional sence, being synthetic the warm water trick probably won't make that much difference (backnin the days of leather shoes it was common,  although I never found it helped much personally,  but that was probably just me) . Toby Archer did a very in depth review on here last year of those shoes including some notes about sizing so thats probably worth a read. Generally speaking though it seems street size would make a good fit for most , doesn't help you much of course apart from perhaps identifying that they may just be half a size to small ? 

In reply to climber34neil:

I hope not 😬 I only downsized by a half size per the manufacturers suggestion (Scarpa). They suggest you downsize by either a half or full size 🫤

In reply to DizzyVizion:

I can't comment about that shoe directly but years ago I did something similar with a pair of instinct vs ( orange ones) , tried them on in the shop, bought them half size down as suggested by scarpa for a " performance fit", there was a performance, but it wasn't a good one ! Managed to swap them for the same size street shoe/ trainner size which were perfect 

In reply to DizzyVizion:

I recently returned a pair of Quantics which were 1/2 a size below my normal size because of the pain inflicted on the outside of my big toe. Everywhere else the shoe was a comfortable fit but the toe pain was excruciating.

My wife tried on the shoes - she is one and a half sizes below me and the shoes were baggy on her except for the extreme pain on the outside of her big toes. That convinced me that I was never going to be able to use these shoes.

In reply to climber34neil:

Thanks Neil. I'll need to ride out the pain for a bit longer before I consider giving up on them.

Money is almost as tight as these shoes

:  (

In reply to Gormenghast:

The tip of my left big toe is the only point where the pain was really bad. Otherwise they would have been absolutely fine.

My big toe looked as if it had been sliced off at the end because of how flat it looked from being crushed in from the front. Ouch!

In reply to DizzyVizion:

I take those recommendations with a pinch of salt. I’ve been wearing Scarpas at street size for years, currently Furia Air. I simply can’t get a half size down on my feet and climb. It’s very morpho I think

In reply to paul_in_cumbria:

Nice! They look really good. A bit too much for my needs though I think.

I'm in my mid 40's climbing around 6b indoor in a pair of Scarpa Thunders (street shoe size). They have been great- very comfy. More suited to multipitch. They let me down when edging/pushing up off tiny toe holds. There have been 6b/6b+ routes where a good edge is, for me, pretty much a necessity. Hence the new shoes- they are marketed as a good intermediate shoe.

I'm colourblind meaning when climbing indoors I sometimes bypass a hold because I'm unsure if it's pink or blue or purple, or green or yellow or orange or red- it's a nightmare. Plus I've really bad tennis elbow right now.

If I could get these new shoes to work out, I would honestly be so happy!

In reply to DizzyVizion:

At the grades you are climbing, overtight shoes will hinder more than help. Some argue climbing in painful climbing shoes is a bad idea for anyone.

https://www.thebmc.co.uk/climbing-shoes-is-pain-insane

In reply to Offwidth:

Thanks Offwidth, I'll give that link a proper read soon. 

I agree that pain is a hindrance to climbing, absolutley! I bailed near the top of a climb because the pain was getting a bit too much.

It's frustrating because it's only my left-big toe that is suffering. Last night I put them on and soaked them in a basin of warm water wiggled my toes around for 20 minutes, then allowed them to dry while still on. This seems to have helped but still needs more stretch. So today I placed bags of water inside them and put them in the freezer.

I'm flying out to Thailand tomorrow morning with Koh Tao the first stop. There's a small indoor climbing gym there so I'll take the shoes and keep at it.

I've bought shoes before that hurt and sold them on but this pair is so close to being fine. 

If I persist and get results, I will be back here to report it.

And if I don't get resulst I'll sell them on here probably, we'll see. 

In reply to DizzyVizion:

Best of luck but my advice is buy shoes that are snug but don't hurt. If snug shoes stretch you can always adjust space and stop the stink by using socks.

In reply to DizzyVizion:

Can I suggest that you try out the granite bouldering on koh tao. I'm really surprised that someone has built a wall when there is so much good natural rock! Liquid chalk really helps with the humidity. 

I'm sure you realise that your feet swell throughout the day and more when it's hot versus cold.

Have a good trip 

In reply to nic dill:

Thank you 🙂 I will definitely check out the bouldering 

In reply to Offwidth:

this ^^ is what my orthopaedic surgeon was saying about my cripplingly tight Testarossas before removing the lump on my big toe 

In reply to DizzyVizion:

I usually go up half a size and wear thin socks, zero misery and day long comfort! I suspect a few foot problems I have now were in part caused by too many hours squeezing into too small a shoe. 

In reply to DizzyVizion:

recently started using Scarpa Maestros and really like them, fit really well although a bit tight for multipitch.  However I had to go 1 size UP from street shoe, even though website told me to go a size down.  Glad I tried on a range of sizes in the shop.

If they stay too tight, and depending on the design you can sometimes improve them by making some cuts in the rubber strip that goes round your heel.

Not sure what your shoes look like but I have some 5.10s that were too tight on long routes. Sitting on a multipitch belay one day I thought I'd try cutting the heel rand / strap. Just made a few slices into the rubber while wearing them, the tension makes the cuts open up as you do them and instant relief! Just make sure you don't cut too deep and go through the shoe. 

The pain I was getting was also in the toe area, cutting the shoes like I said reduced the overall tension and took pressure off the toe. I can still heel hook fine in them as well.

In reply to DizzyVizion:

Not too relevant to your ok (sorry!), but in relation to the BMC article:  I find a mid-high level, quite snug shoe more supportive for standing on small edges and more comfortable in the long run than comfort orientated shoes, if that's the kind of climbing you do. So accepting a little pain is greater comfort overall, if that makes sense?

Unfortunately the goldilocks zone is tiny and trying on lots and lots of shoes is the only way to get it right!

In reply to DizzyVizion:

Sitting in Doha with my old rock shoes in the bag rather than the new tighter-than-tight pair. My toes were just a bit too raw, so I switched them for my Scarpa Thunders just before heading to the airport- the right decision I think.

I will just punt the Scarpa Quantic SF size 8 nearly new in box for £65 Inc UK mainland delivery, if anyone is interested you can let me know, but I won't be back to the UK until July 17th. Obviously wouldn't arrange any transactions until I'm back. But happy to reserve them for the stated price 👍

In reply to DizzyVizion: OK, normally I'd say 1/2 a size down from street should feel pretty ok straight away so I'm thinking this shoe might not be a very good for you full stop.  Have you tried anything else?

I've never had much joy stretching shoes with water and ice makes no sense at all.  Try an initial stretch by wearing thing plastic bags so they slide on easy, then once that'ok, then wear them without

In reply to wbo2:

I used plastic bags on my feet to begin with - made getting them on/off a piece of cake. It was really only the big toe on my left foot that hurt too much - the fit on the right though tigh, would have been okay. The shape of the shoe in general felt good just a size too small. So I've ordered the size 9's. 

I will definitely update here when I get back to the UK in 2 weeks - the 9's should be delivered by then 👍

In reply to DizzyVizion:

Nowadays I always buy rock and approach shoes half a size too small, soak them in water and then use shoe stretchers (Amazon) to get a perfect fit width and length wise. Obviously don’t overstretch. 

In reply to Philb1950:

Thanks Phil. Would this method stretch the rubber enough? Perhaps by a full size- in my case anyway. The upper is synthetic as opposed to stretching a suede upper.

In reply to DizzyVizion:

The simple answer is I don’t know, but rubber and synthetic does stretch