UKH

/ Five ten - disaster imminent?

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bouldery bits - on 05 Apr 2018

So I've been a 5.10 user for years (although I'm not climbing much currently due to injury recovery and spending more time in fell shoes at present) and I've noticed the following things that I'm going to have a whinge about.

1. Just clicked on the link for the new Anasazi pros (which look alright). Why am i on the Adidas website??? I know they got bought out but this is a bit weird. Seems like an unwise brand move?

 

2. Dragons. Where have they gone? Why have they gone? It's not OK. Dragons are well weapon. Teams are poo and it's about v5 just getting my hooves in them. No Blancos on the website either....

 

3. New Quantum's are terrible. Why are they so wide and what's going on with the toe box??? Bring back the proper purple ones please.

 

Anyone else concerned?

La Sportivas Don't quite fit my feet.

Red chilli aren't actually sticky ime.

I'm not cool enough for soill.

Evlov might be alright I guess.

Ocun have the wiff of rock pillars about them.

Tenaya last a good ten minutes ime.

Leaves me with Scarpa I suppose....

 

In short, don't go changing 5.10. Please.

 

Post edited at 23:50
d_b on 05 Apr 2018
In reply to bouldery bits:

They dropped the one shoe I could wear all day the instant adidas bought them.  It comes for us all, and now it has come for you.

 

summo on 06 Apr 2018
In reply to davidbeynon:

I abandoned Camp when they made the camp fours have all the comfort and properties of a £10 industrial work shoe, with a near £100 price tag. 

climberchristy on 06 Apr 2018
In reply to bouldery bits:

> Leaves me with Scarpa I suppose....

You could do a lot worse. Scarpa are a quality brand. I swapped from 5,10 to Scarpa years ago and never wanted to change since,

 

AlanLittle - on 06 Apr 2018
In reply to bouldery bits:

> Tenaya last a good ten minutes ime.

Interesting. I had a pair of Tenaya Ra's and build quality seemed to be excellent. Unfortunately. I didn't like them at all, & it took me bloody ages to wear them out so I would throw them away with a clear conscience. 

AlanLittle - on 06 Apr 2018
In reply to davidbeynon:

>  and now it has come for you.

Quite. I read with great trepidation the news that La Sportiva are buggering about with Miura Laces. I don't want to start having to think about what shoes to buy next.

Dandan - on 06 Apr 2018
In reply to AlanLittle:

> >  and now it has come for you.

> Quite. I read with great trepidation the news that La Sportiva are buggering about with Miura Laces. I don't want to start having to think about what shoes to buy next.

Say it ain't so! 

SebCa - on 06 Apr 2018
In reply to bouldery bits:

> La Sportivas Don't quite fit my feet.

> Red chilli aren't actually sticky ime.

> I'm not cool enough for soill.

> Evlov might be alright I guess.

> Ocun have the wiff of rock pillars about them.

> Tenaya last a good ten minutes ime.

> Leaves me with Scarpa I suppose....

> In short, don't go changing 5.10. Please.

Ha oh to have the choice, I have size 14 feet so for me its either 5.10 or Scarpa....possibly Boreal.

I found myself looking the other day and its pretty difficult to navigate, I used to be able to filter by size, my first search criteria. I have been looking at Scarpa anyway so out of ease will probably go that way. Shame as I have had a fair few pair of 5.10s

Phil79 - on 06 Apr 2018
In reply to bouldery bits:

I gave you a like just for the Nathan Barley reference.

AlanLittle - on 06 Apr 2018
In reply to Dandan:

Can't remember if this on mountainproject is the exact posting I read, or something similar: 

> Miura XX is gone, new Miuras have cosmetic updates but that is all. No P3 or price hike. 

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/114204297/201819-la-sportiva-catalog#ForumMessage-114208246

... but "cosmetic updates" sounds ominous

UPDATE: and oh dearie me here's LaSpo's "refine the classics" page: https://www.lasportiva.com/en/climbing-reboot

Just found a German site selling off the real thing cheap. Might "hamster" myself a couple of pairs, as we say over here.

Post edited at 10:07
Andypeak - on 06 Apr 2018
In reply to bouldery bits:

> Red chilli aren't actually sticky ime.

I think Red Chili have started using vibram rubber on many of the models now so they should be as sticky as anything else

Fakey Rocks - on 06 Apr 2018
In reply to bouldery bits:

Evolv are pretty good.

The new Supra is pretty stiff, slightly aggressive, very comfy... I find i need a bigger size (12) than my normal footwear (10.5), but i wear socks. I'll buy an 11. 5 soon to go sockless in summer. 

The Sharma is supposed to be pretty good too. 

Evolv have 1 or 2mm more rubber to the soles thickness than other brands, and it does last a fair while, it's pretty grippy too. 

This may not be of interest to you but like 5.10, they have a big range of mostly synthetic shoes, i.e., little or no leather or suede, so if u prefer the more cruelty free lifestyle, that's good (compare with sportiva... None, boreal... None, scarpa... possibly some, etc). 

Tim Sparrow on 06 Apr 2018
In reply to summo:

> I abandoned Camp when they made the camp fours have all the comfort and properties of a £10 industrial work shoe, with a near £100 price tag. 

I thought the same when I first had some of the new versions when they were going cheap at Needlesports.- but with some nice insoles, I find these better than any of the other earlier versions. Just bought the last cheap pair at my size.

1
d_b on 06 Apr 2018
In reply to Fakey Rocks:

I did actually end up getting evolv as my new all day long route shoes.  The rubber is good but quite soft, and it was quite hard to find somewhere that sold them so I have been rationing their use.

summo on 06 Apr 2018
In reply to Tim Sparrow:

Think I might just be expecting too much, as I bench mark most shoes against the original scarpa el caps. 

jimtitt - on 06 Apr 2018
In reply to bouldery bits:

5.10 were planning on reducing the product line before they were bought out, they had problems producing enough and also wanted to move further into the cycle shoe market to diversify. Adidas seem to be simply carrying this plan out, there certainly seem to be more different models of rock shoes from a large number of manufacturers than the market can sustainably support (you left about half a dozen companies off your list).

summo on 06 Apr 2018
In reply to jimtitt:

It does make you wonder how in touch with their market some manufacturers are, or their quality of consumer research. You often get a product that is universally liked, fits well, last a reasonable length of time... then sure enough they change something which often seems purely for the sake of reinventing it or is cosmetic  bringing out a 2018 model etc.. If they just focussed on getting the basics right people will keep buying the older model anyway. This seems to apply to shoes, boots, fleeces, rucksacks and no doubt plenty other things. 

uphillnow - on 06 Apr 2018
In reply to bouldery bits:

I am worried too, 5.10 Anasazi are one of the few rock boots that suit my feet. Loved the original Blanco's for limestone and bought a replacement as soon as I heard they were stopping making them. The new ones are a disappointment however, and don't know what to go for next.

 

Fakey Rocks - on 07 Apr 2018
In reply to davidbeynon:

> I did actually end up getting evolv as my new all day long route shoes.  The rubber is good but quite soft, and it was quite hard to find somewhere that sold them so I have been rationing their use.

GO sells a bit of the Evolv  range, + if u mean comfy all day u mean the Defy?, not bad but a bit floppy, the Supra are stiff but still comfy for me, bought from BF (they've almost got the full range)

I climb mostly lime + indoors 2 or 3 times a week, lasted about 10 months.

d_b on 07 Apr 2018
In reply to Fakey Rocks:

I ended up getting the Kronos.  It feels fairly similar to my old ascents.

I thought the Bandit SC looked like a better match for what I wanted at the time but was unable to find a pair to try on anywhere.

For indoor/general use I use scarpa "force x" shoes, which are ok for a couple of hours but I can't wear them on long routes.

Post edited at 09:43
TobyA on 07 Apr 2018
In reply to summo:

> It does make you wonder how in touch with their market some manufacturers are, or their quality of consumer research. 

It may also be that we see lots of people who climb like we do all wearing the same shoes and think "they are a super successful model" not realising that they don't sell too well anywhere else. In Helsinki every wannabe bouldering grommet had LS Solutions, let's call it the Nalle effect, but I've seen very few people wearing them on grit or inside in Sheffield.

OP: never found a pair of Five Tens that fitted my feet in 25 years of trying some on each time I was shopping for shoes, so some changes might open their market up! 

summo on 07 Apr 2018
In reply to TobyA:

True  I have never bought climbing stuff there, but xxl only sells one or two types of climbing shoe. I imagine their volume could destroy any useful statistis from independents.

Either way, I still mourn the loss of the original scarpa el caps and 5 10 camp fours. 

Post edited at 10:42
Wayne S - on 07 Apr 2018
In reply to bouldery bits:

Change can be bad.....When I find a shoe I like and works for me I do have a tendency to buy the world stock if I get a whiff of it being discontinued,  I have 4 pairs of Katana lace three on the go and one in the original box on standby.  As it happens the Kataki is a solid replacement......and I feel a bit silly!

 

 

d_b on 07 Apr 2018
In reply to TobyA:

I think what annoys me is when entire niches are ignored.  You can walk into a shop and find a dozen aggresively designed bouldering shoes and maybe one that may be suitable for mountain routes if you happen to be lucky with the shape of last...

I understand that manufacturers have to go where the money is but it is frustrating sometimes.

mark s - on 07 Apr 2018
In reply to bouldery bits:

The only boots I have worn for 15 years has been 5.10 I can see Adidas end n the whole climbing shoe side of it. I may be way off the mark but I wouldn't be surprised if it is on the table in the production meetings 

3
teh_mark on 07 Apr 2018
In reply to mark s:

I can't see Adidas buying a brand whose original and main line of products are climbing shoes, and then stop manufacturing climbing shoes.

Mayaculpa - on 07 Apr 2018
In reply to bouldery bits:

Five Ten Camp Four Approach Shoes 2013 were comfy and bomb proof so they discontinued them. Why? revenue stream.... 
Tony Jones on 07 Apr 2018
In reply to bouldery bits:

It's interesting to note that there seems to be a supply problem at the moment with some sizes of 5.10 pinks, and also that those sizes that are available are being discounted as if they are end of line.

I wouldn't say that I'm panicking but I'm starting to stockpile my 'technical' size.

Big business? I'm not sure that their marketing folks will ever understand niche markets.

 

Fiskavaig on 07 Apr 2018
In reply to bouldery bits:

5.10, i have used since the 80's. stealth rubber is the best there is in my opinion. Its the same with everything good these days, it works so stop making it! Scarpa Cumbres, La Sportiva Nepal evos as two recent casualties! 

jamscoz on 08 Apr 2018
In reply to teh_mark:

Original sure. Main line? Not so much any more.  The biking side is huge for them - I meet plenty people (probably mostly bikers) that don't know that 5.10 make climbing shoes.

 

Coel Hellier - on 08 Apr 2018
In reply to jamscoz:

> I meet plenty people (probably mostly bikers) that don't know that 5.10 make climbing shoes.

Where do they think the name 5.10 comes from?

1
jimtitt - on 08 Apr 2018
In reply to Coel Hellier:

> Where do they think the name 5.10 comes from?


The hardest anyone can climb in them because of the wierd fit?

1
Robert Durran - on 08 Apr 2018
In reply to jimtitt:

> The hardest anyone can climb in them because of the wierd fit?

The fit is absolutely perfect for me

Doug on 08 Apr 2018
In reply to Robert Durran:

I miss my 5.10 Newtons

bouldery bits - on 09 Apr 2018
In reply to bouldery bits:

Thanks all.

Seems my concerns aee not unfounded.

Oh well. Atleast I'm too rubbish for it to really matter!

Simon Caldwell - on 09 Apr 2018
In reply to summo:

The RAB Generator springs to mind. What on earth were they thinking!

d_b on 09 Apr 2018
In reply to Simon Caldwell:

If we are on clothing then the original Rab Vapour Rise jacket is on my list of things that should never have been discontinued.

Mr Trebus - on 09 Apr 2018
In reply to Tony Jones:

I don't understand why they have taken the heel hanging loops off the back of all their approach shoes. 

I lived in ascents for years, but they changed them to a sports shoe. Adding a small loop so you can add cord would even be better than nothing. 

Tony Jones on 09 Apr 2018
In reply to Mr Trebus:

Approach shoes without a method of hanging them from the back of a harness seems to suggest they might have been designed without consulting someone that will actually use the things. Having said that my tennies have heel loops.

becauseitsthere - on 09 Apr 2018
In reply to davidbeynon:

Agree. Also too many folk wearing overly aggressive shoes and not really climbing that hard either.  But I suppose if you're on a budget and can only afford one pair....

Just got myself the new Scarpa Maestro's as my all day shoe. (Spirit VCR's being my last and not keen on their replacement) Only had a couple of sessions but very pleased with comfort. The friction is superb.

Simon Caldwell - on 09 Apr 2018
In reply to bouldery bits:

Bugger, just did a search and Anasazi Guides aren't available any more, and I'm too late for the end of line sales

Emily_pipes - on 09 Apr 2018
In reply to bouldery bits:

I had the old Camp Fours for years, several pairs of shoes.  Then they changed the design and I was bummed.  I now have Scarpa Geckos, which are a much lighter shoe, but pretty awesome scrambling around on slickrock in Utah so I'm not going to complain. 

Mark Kemball - on 09 Apr 2018
In reply to bouldery bits:

You think you've got problems, I was really really pissed off when EBs changed their design...

Col Kingshott on 23 Apr 2018
In reply to AlanLittle:

I had a quick look on their website the other day, looks like they’ve changed to rubber on the laces from XS Edge, to XS Grip (or the other way round).  So same rubber as the Miura Velcro now.  

 

Col  

 

thebigfriendlymoose - on 23 Apr 2018
In reply to Col Kingshott:

> I had a quick look on their website the other day, looks like they’ve changed to rubber on the laces from XS Edge, to XS Grip (or the other way round).  So same rubber as the Miura Velcro now.  

> Col  


Muira velcros use XSEdge on the men's and XSGrip for the LVs.  I think the Skwama, Testerossa, Solutions, and the no-edge range all use XSGrip for both normal and  LV.

Col Kingshott on 24 Apr 2018
In reply to thebigfriendlymoose:

Just double checked on their website. What I said is correct old Miura lace use XS Edge, new version use XS Grip. So they have changed. Have to see how that works out, I’m a massive fan of the current lace version on XS Edge. 

 

Or did you mean that the new new version is going to be made alongside the old one as a ‘Low Volume’ shoe? 

 

Col. 

 

alx on 24 Apr 2018
In reply to jamscoz:

Quiet often companies hit upon a more lucrative market which they can earn more from. It’s just a case of gradually cannibalising the old infrastructure to feed the new direction.

 


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