UKH

Hello,

I'm planning to start some winter mountaineering and ice climbing.I would like to buy an all round pair of axes since i'm a begginer and I don't want to spend a fortune on two separate pairs.I'm 168 cm tall.

The Singing Rock Edge axes caught my attention.They are T rated, slighlty curved, 54 cm, and cost around 125 pounds a pair.

But at the same time I would be willing to spend double that money to get the Singing Rock Bandits, if they are also suitable for general mountaineering.These are 50cm long, and seem very good for ice climbing, but i'm concerned about how good they are for walking/arresting a fall.

I only climbed ice once, with and old pair of Petzls, and I loved it.In the future I'll also like to get into mixed climbing/dry tooling.

I also didn't consider axes like Petzl Summit Evos or BD Venoms because at the same price as the Bandits, they are way less aggressive.

I could also get the Edelrid Riot axes for a bit more money than the Bandits.

So to sum this up, I would be willing to spend some money on some more aggresive ice axes, if they would be ok for general mountaineering aswell.If not, I will get those cheap Edge axes since they seem ok all around, and in the future I will get another pair for ice climbing.

Thanks!

You have the answer in your last sentence

If you’re just starting, but want them for general mountaineering and some ice climbing, I’d probably buy three axes, not two pairs. 

Something like a DMM  Cirque/Petzl sum’tec and then a pair of the Singing Rock bandits or similar then you’d have all bases covered. 

Everyone has an opinion on axes, so here's mine

If you're just starting out and intend first doing lots of mileage on easier routes in the I-III sort of range (a sensible idea, erring on the easy side of that range for some time - and in conjunction with working on the necessary all-round winter hill skills) then you don't want anything too aggressive. If an axe is more techy then it's generally less suited to general mountaineering ground, which is an obvious point but arguably one that needs repeating.

Ideally you'd perhaps get one pair now that's perfect for where you're at right now (Edge), and then upgrade to something else if/when you progress, in a couple of years or whenever. That said, I can understand the desire not to have to fork out for two different pairs as you progress. 

If you want to save money then one option might be to get a fairly technically capable pair, but one that's a step down from the moulded-handle-ultra-aggressive sort of axe you see people using on harder routes, drytooling etc.

We reviewed a bunch of axes last winter:

https://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/snow+ice/ice_axes/technical_ice_axes-9964

Of this selection, the only two that cover the ground from mountaineering right into higher grade climbing (which you may get to eventually, or equally may not) are the DMM Apex and CT North Couloir. Either of those would be a worthwhile alternative to the Singing Rock Bandits. You could happily use them on a grade I gully or grade II Scottish ridge traverse, but they could take you well into the mid grades too.

Having said all that, if you're going to be climbing lots of easier ground for the foreseeable future then even an axe like this is arguably overkill. 

Alternatives to the Edge might include the DMM Fly or the DMM Raptor. I think the latter is superb as an all-round mountaineering axe - i only use mine for one-axe days but you could equally climb with a pair. Other makes and models are available of course.

Perhaps we ought to do a mountaineering axe group test some time...  

Go second hand. No point getting shiny if your going to bash them into stuff. Should be able to get a pair to get out for 150 easy.

It looks like the Singing Rock Edge is neither a technical tool (which you'd usually buy a pair of), nor a mountaineering tool (which you'd only buy a single one of). It kind of falls between these 2 categories.  Not entirely sure what sort of use they had in mind for it. Maybe the idea was, it could work both on its own and paired with another more technical tool. Like if you bought one Edge and one Bandit to start with... Really depends on what's your main interest is. Winter walking and climbing grade I - single long mountaineering axe, climbing from grade II and above - pair of short technical axes.

Personally I wouldn't bother getting any tech axes that aren't set up for leashless (ie needs an upper a lower grip rest and a suitable hole in the pommel for clipping leashes like this too https://www.trekitt.co.uk/12557/products/black-diamond-spinner-leash.aspx?c... ). On the cheaper end of the scale singing rock bandit or elderid riot would be perfect.

If you can find a pair second hand all the better. 

Wrist leashes are just a massive pain in the arse and if I was you I'd start as you mean to carry on and not use them on tech axes.

A friend who has got into winter climbing in the last few years has a pair of DMM Fly axes. These have served him well for Mam Tor Gully, grade 2 snow routes in the Cairngorms, easy ice climbing in Cogne as well as walking up Ben Nevis and a grade 1 ridge in Glencoe.

I got into  winter climbing from a rock climbing background (and skiing/ski-touring). So while I was accustomed to move on snow (with skis) and on rock (with sticky rubber shoes), mixing these was new to my (with steel on me feet).

That said, I don't think I did much (if at all) grade I-III  stuff, namely because none existed where I live... It was directly to water ice and easier mixed climbing. I did get a  shorter straight mountaineering axe and two ice tools... The axe didn't get much use. In fact I thought I'd use it while ski-touring, but soon realized that if the conditions mandated an axe, it would be terrain I would not like to ski down.

So at least from experience, get proper tools (bandit, riot or similar 2nd hand tools) and hiking poles.

And if you are more inclined to walk... when get a longer walking axe (and hiking poles) and forget about climbing...

Oh, self arrest can sort of be done on the shorter techical tools... but it ain't fun... best not to slip in the first place (hiking poles help). And oddly enough, I have only once needed to resort to self arrest... on my first day in Scotland, when I glissaded over a cornice... managed to arrest wihtout a hitch with a green BD Fusion (predecessor of the Fuel) after around 10m or so.

Maybe go for a capable "in between" pair? Something like the Petzl SumTec, Grivel Light Machine or Cassin X-light. 

Thanks for the suggestions but these are all expensive here and I wouldn't want to pay that kinda price for a non aggressive axe.

Aggressive tools are going to be almost impossible to self arrest with. If you can find a tool that's aggressive, easy to plunge and self arrest with, that's also cheap as chips then I think we'd all like to know. Otherwise get yourself a modular tool like the DMM Fly, it's a compromise of everything but it exists for a reason. 

If I were you I'd get the Singing Rock Bandits. I'm sure they are capable of climbing far harder than you, or I, ever will.

In addition to this I'd look at getting a single 50-55cm mountaineering axe. Something like a DMM Cirque or a Grivel Airtech. You should be able to pick these up fairly cheaply second hand. 

If cash is tight, buy the mountaineering axe and the bandit hammer first. Then add a bandit axe when you progress beyond Scottish III.

That's what I'd do anyway.  

Thanks all for the replies.

The DMM Fly's look awesome but I can't get them here so I think I'll be getting a pair of Bandits and one or two cheap mountaineering axes, maybe from Simond(since I'm buying for me and my partner too).