/ £1000 rain coat

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Hawklance - on 12 Mar 2019

I predict within the next 5 years one outdoor company will make and claim their new rain coat is the best thing since sliced bread and people will buy it regardless of its unfounded price. Why are we bring pushed to pay stupid prices for stuff that doesn't cost as much to manufacture?

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Luke90 on 12 Mar 2019
In reply to Hawklance:

Wouldn't the manufacturers be daft to not release high-end overpriced gear for people who are willing to pay? The rich folk or suckers who buy it can subsidise development of new ideas that eventually trickle down to those of us who stick to more conventionally-priced gear.

I don't know about you but I don't feel particularly "pushed" to buy the expensive stuff. If it offends you, you're probably paying it too much attention.

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drolex - on 12 Mar 2019
In reply to Hawklance:

Too late I am already climbing in my Burberry trenchcoat. Amazing piece of equipment - it even has gear loops.

The assorted scarf is also helmet compatible.

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Tom F Harding on 12 Mar 2019
jimtitt - on 12 Mar 2019
In reply to Hawklance:

Buy what you want, I will.

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muppetfilter - on 12 Mar 2019
In reply to Hawklance:

Can i just spend the £1000 flying somewhere where it doesnt rain?

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rj_townsend on 12 Mar 2019
In reply to Hawklance:

We aren't being pushed into buying anything - it's the choice of each person whether to purchase or not. If you don't like the price, don't pay it.

As for paying just the price it costs to manufacture, I suggest you move into the real world.

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cb294 - on 12 Mar 2019
wbo - on 12 Mar 2019
In reply to Hawklance:Norrona also made one and matching , equivalently priced trousers.  Fell apart pretty quickly so people got their money back.  

Noones making you butthis stuff, plenty of budget options around

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pec on 12 Mar 2019
In reply to cb294:

> This one?

> € 1399 ffs

Interesting to see in the blurb that this jacket is actually wearable. That's a really useful feature, I'll have to bear that in mind next time I'm in the market for a waterproof (when my current jacket I got from Aldi for half price at £20 wears out).

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fifthsunset - on 12 Mar 2019
In reply to Hawklance:

> I predict within the next 5 years one outdoor company will make and claim their new rain coat is the best thing since sliced bread and people will buy it regardless of its unfounded price. Why are we bring pushed to pay stupid prices for stuff that doesn't cost as much to manufacture?

Don't Arcteryx do their Taste The Difference range? Bet there's something in there for over a grand. 

Boom! Found one: https://www.veilance.com/gb/en/shop/mens/monitor-coat

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Neil Williams - on 12 Mar 2019
In reply to Hawklance:

> I predict within the next 5 years one outdoor company will make and claim their new rain coat is the best thing since sliced bread and people will buy it regardless of its unfounded price. Why are we bring pushed to pay stupid prices for stuff that doesn't cost as much to manufacture?


I don't really find outdoor gear to be particularly overpriced.  A typical Gore Tex waterproof costs in numbers terms about the same as it did in the late 1990s which means a substantial real-terms reduction.

By contrast, £1000+ for a mobile phone is obscene; OnePlus have demonstrated that quite clearly by producing an excellent device for not far off half that.

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Duncan Bourne - on 12 Mar 2019
In reply to Neil Williams:

My last coat cost me £200 a lot more than the £50 I paid for a similar product in 1993

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The New NickB - on 12 Mar 2019
In reply to Duncan Bourne:

I got a Berghaus Alpine Extrem jacket for my 18th birthday in January 1993, RRP was £180. Pint of bitter down my local was £1.30. Beer in the same pub is now £3.50. Similar inflation would put a £500 price tag on the jacket.

You could spend a lot more even then on jackets designed for climbing rather than just walking the Trango Extrem was about £50 more and the TNF Mountain Jacket was a similar price to the Trango.

I currently wear a £300 Black Diamond jacket that I paid less than £200 for (seems to be more discounting these days) and is better in every way than the old Berghaus, except perhaps durability, as it’s a third of the weight.

The prices of the top end jackets are probably similar to the top end jackets 25 years ago, the difference is you can buy a sub £100 jacket and it will perform as well the top end stuff of really not that long ago.

Post edited at 17:51
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Roberttaylor - on 12 Mar 2019
In reply to Hawklance:

The thing about the expensive jackets that bothers me a bit is that if someone new to the outdoors wanders into tiso with the intent of getting some kit to go for a walk and they are confronted with a rack of overpriced stuff they may not realise there's an alternative. I don't like the thought of people being put off a healthy, enjoyable lifestyle because they think it's outwith their means.

A bit condescending perhaps but not everyone has the social capital to know what a reasonable price for a jacket is.

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TobyA on 12 Mar 2019
In reply to Roberttaylor:

Although they can go to Decathlon and get a good jacket for a lot less in real terms than were available 25 years ago.

I remember one of the MRTeams in north Wales saying there were fewer rescues now for people with hypothermia simply because decent fleeces and waterproofs aren't particularly expensive these days.

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pasbury on 12 Mar 2019
In reply to Hawklance:

There are many ways of proving you’re a dick. Buying a 1000 quid waterproof is just one of them.

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PaulJepson - on 13 Mar 2019
In reply to The New NickB:

Yeah I remember reading somewhere that climbing gear and clothing is comparatively cheap nowadays vs income/cost of living in the 80s/90s.

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gravy - on 13 Mar 2019
In reply to cb294:

It may be E1399 but it gets you hydro bot and that's a service some people will pay good money for...

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Tom V - on 13 Mar 2019
In reply to gravy:

How does it stand up to dog piss, though?

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ClimberEd - on 13 Mar 2019
In reply to Hawklance:

As someone I know while buying an exceedingly expensive first bike said

'my wife spends 10 grand on a handbag at the weekend, so I'll spend 10 grand on a bike if I feel like it'

I'm sure they would buy it without worrying.

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MischaHY - on 13 Mar 2019
In reply to cb294:

In fairness, that does at least represent a serious technological step forward. It's not just Goretex pro being sold at 3x the usual price point. 

I'd be interested to read an independent review on how it performs in practicality. 

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earlsdonwhu - on 13 Mar 2019
In reply to ClimberEd:

You must mingle with a different crowd to me! 10 grand for a handbag or bike?! Austerity really kicking in .

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ClimberEd - on 13 Mar 2019
In reply to earlsdonwhu:

I'm not sure they are the austerity target market......

Just pointing out there are people like that out there, and more than you might think.

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cb294 - on 13 Mar 2019
In reply to MischaHY:

I did not even look at the technology*. Whatever the new fabric costs, 80% of the price will be for having the name of a famous skier on your jacket when you finally make your way down to the apres ski bar.

CB

* Just spotted the brand in an outdoor gear catalogue that is part of my essential bog literature

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AlanLittle - on 13 Mar 2019
In reply to Hawklance:

I have a few bits of Arcteryx kit, all of them bought approximately half price in sales, and the cut, design, build quality is generally superb. I personally still wouldn't have bought them at full price, but I'm duly grateful to the people who do and thereby pay for the top notch design team etc.

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MischaHY - on 13 Mar 2019
In reply to cb294:

It's pretty fascinating from what I've just briefly read/watched. They use a process called electroosmosis which uses contrasting voltage to drive moisture actively through the membrane. Video here: 

https://hydrobot.com/new-revolutionary-solution/ 

From the website:

"Video shows active electroosmotic pumping of water from top of membrane to other side, then reversed pumping (by reversing voltage) to re-wet the surface, and finally pumping in the original direction again. Using small contact and low voltage / low power, the membrane can be used to remove humidity from textile layers and other surfaces.

While the passive membranes used in textiles and clothing is typically capable of transporting max 0.1 to 0.5 litre per square meter and hour, Osmotex’ active membranes can transport more than 200 litres. This far exceeds the capability of any standard textile material. They are also not dependent on ventilation or humidity gradients, and both magnitude and direction of flow can be controlled electronically.

As human perspiration rates can easily reach 1-2 litres per hour during sports or hard work, and in extreme cases as high as 7 litres per hour, there is a undisputed need for better solutions in sports, work and protective clothing. The material is also being tested in applications such as seat comfort, wound care, air conditioning and buildings, storage and electronics protection."

TLDR: The membrane electronically sucks moisture from one side to the other at a max rate of 200 litres/m2 per hour. 

I'm genuinely fascinated by this and would say that if it work as expected in sport it could be a huge step forward in material technology. Imagine a hardshell you could wear comfortably next to skin without that horrible 'clammy' feeling. Boots that could dry themselves out after walking through a river, or gloves that could dry out after getting soaked. Could be a real game changer. 

Post edited at 10:07
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jkarran - on 13 Mar 2019
cb294 - on 13 Mar 2019
In reply to MischaHY:

Yes that may work, and it may be even more useful for down sleeping bags or bivy sacks, where I find condensation even more of an issue. However, I would not want a jacket that requires a battery. Something about that feels wrong to me, a bit like cheating. Same with actively heated boots, or Di2 gear boxes on my bike.

I would welcome other uses for that fabric, though, e.g. in hazmat or biosafety suits, where the perspiration issue is even worse, and active drying could make quite a difference!

CB

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MischaHY - on 13 Mar 2019
In reply to cb294:

Interesting opinion. Horses for courses I suppose - personally I've no issue with 'active' technologies as long as the battery life is reasonable (i.e. 24hr functional usage time as a good base, ideally far longer. 

I imagine this can be reasonably achieved with a lithium battery these days - but perhaps not.

I wonder if rather than sleeping bags the more interesting place might be in a sealed single skin tent that doesn't condensate. That would be a serious step forward. 

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mattc - on 13 Mar 2019
In reply to AlanLittle:

Arcteryx customers service isn’t up to much tho! I have some shoes with the sole coming away from them after about 6months light use and they put it down to wear and tear! 

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Hardonicus - on 13 Mar 2019
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galpinos on 13 Mar 2019
In reply to earlsdonwhu:

I doubt they live in Cov Pete..........

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MischaHY - on 14 Mar 2019
In reply to mattc:

Did you go direct to the shop? Delamination is a warranty issue and will be dealt with. As ever, polite but firm and be persistent. 

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Tricadam on 14 Mar 2019
In reply to Hawklance:

And if you think those (let's face it, mostly male) full-price-Arcteryx buyers are suckers... https://www.wowamazing.com/lifestyle/fashion/9-expensive-underwear-world/

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Frank R. on 14 Mar 2019
In reply to Tricadam:

They might not be £1000+ (although, as a one and only prototype, who knows), but these down-filled bikini might be slightly more useful in the mountains than the diamond ones (sorry, FB link only)

https://www.facebook.com/sirjoseph.cz/photos/a.219020786045/10155758421231046/?type=3&theater

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richprideaux - on 14 Mar 2019
In reply to Hawklance:

There's a £500 poncho if you want to go for lightweight AND flappy:

https://www.canadagoose.com/uk/en/field-poncho-5610M.html

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mattc - on 17:48 Fri
In reply to MischaHY:

yes the shop agreed that it wasn't excitable but said they needed to send them back to the manufacture who after looking at them said it was down to wear and tear and not covered. I've had the same with a ME jacket and a pair of jottnar vanir salopettes the salopettes had hardly been used and are shockingly bad, but to be fair the jacket was well loved. Patagonia for me now the ironclad guarantee is the way forward.   

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MischaHY - on 08:07 Sun
In reply to mattc:

That's really disappointing but I suppose I've not seen the product so can't be too critical!  

Patagonia is an great way to go regardless, but they do have an excellent warranty. Depends if you fit them though...

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