UKH

Hi, im after some help and guidance really!
im a history student at Manchester Metropolitan University and currently studying for my dissertation.
im looking at focusing on British female mountaineers between 1890 and 1930, and female clubs and to an extent their exclusion from 'male' clubs.
ive had a look at what the Alpine Club Library have, but obviously thats in London and im in Manchester. Although i will be visiting there eventually i cant get there at the moment.
so really im asking if any one has any advice for me in which way to go. any books you recommend (as i get marked down on missing any crucial works) and also what sort of primary sources i should be looking for.
Thanks for reading
Vanessa Thirsk

In reply to VanessaThirsk:

Born between these dates? Climbing between these dates? Why not before 1890?
I'm curious?

In reply to MikeTS:
looking at climbing between these dates really.
reason for not looking before this date because its hard to track or find evidence for in the case of women, also needed to limit my research for the dissertation so chose end of 19th and early 20th century as this is my preferred period really. Also ive got 12,000 words to write but its still such a large topic for the word count
ive just done an essay on the Alps as a tourist attraction in the 19th century, so have already looked at climbing before hand which touched on women.

In reply to VanessaThirsk:
Look out for Mabel Barker in the 1920s. See for example "The central buttress of scafell", though I am sure there are plenty of other sources. Includes her own account of what was the 4th lead of the crux of that route, and also includes some editorial commentary on women in climbing during that era, which I found very interesting though I presume you will be familiar with that background.

In reply to VanessaThirsk:

Pat Kelly (1873-1922) founded the Pinnacle Club in 1921. Have you asked the Pinnacle Club whether they have an archive?

And maybe you should look at: Shirley Angell, Pinnacle Club: a History of Women Climbing (1988). It might be a 'crucial work'?

How about Gertrude Bell who climbed the Northeast face of the Finsteraarhorn in 1902?

Or Mabel Barker ("And nobody woke up dead: the life and times of Mabel Barker, climber and educational pioneer" by Jan Levy 2006)?

Kelly and Barker both climbed in the Lake District. The FRCC might have something on them.

Have you tried typing "women climber" into Google? It will take you to womenclimbing.com, with a history of women in climbing.

In reply to jonny taylor:
Thats great, thank you so much

In reply to smolders:
thanks for the reply, yep tried to get hold of the Pinnacle Club: a history (1988) but its quite a rare book, although the Alpine Library have a copy, so i will have to wait till i get to London.
i have contacted the Pinnacle Club itself, unfortunately they havent got back to me, perhaps i should try again?
ah right i havent come across womenclimbing.com, will definitely have a look.
Thank you so much for your help

In reply to VanessaThirsk:

How long have you got in London? The British Library has Shirley Angell's book. It also has some early journals of the Pinnacle Club from 1924. And someone's written a book about these: "Presumptuous Pinnacle Ladies: a selection from the early journals of Britain's first women rock climbers club" Margaret Clennett, 2009.

If you've only got limited time, you'll find it quite hard to use the BL, because you'll need to register as a reader if you're not already, and then order the books/journals, which can take anything from 2 hours to 2 days to arrive. But if you can't find these books anywhere else, I guess that's what you have to do.

In reply to VanessaThirsk:

In 2010, the Scottish Mountaineering Trust published a book called Rising to the Challenge - 100 years of the Ladies Scottish Mountaineering Club, by Helen Steven. It covers the period 1908 - 2008.

In reply to smolders:
well im looking at going to London a few times, its just all a case of money with how long i can stay at any one time, but that sounds like a possiblility, i never thought about the British Library - just had the Alpine Club Library in mind.
my dissertation isnt due until next May, so ive got plenty of time yet, but only really got until september to be able to travel to do research, then im back at uni attending lectures.
think ive got a copy of presumptuous pinnacle ladies.
Right will definitely register, this is why im starting now cos i know it takes time to order books and sources etc

In reply to Andy Nisbet:
ah perfect! Thanks, as ill be looking at different clubs and was hoping there was more than the Pinnacle Club and Ladies Alpine Club!

In reply to VanessaThirsk:
Hi Vanessa if you were trying to contact the Pinnacle Club via the website, it's pretty dead, but the new one under construction not yet live. I'll email you with the contacts of the PC archivist.

cheers
hazel

In reply to VanessaThirsk:

I got the tile wrong. It should be:

Rising to the Challenge - 100 years of the Ladies Scottish Climbing Club, by Helen Steven.

In reply to VanessaThirsk:

Gertrude Bell

A fascinating woman - Mountaineer, Explorer and Diplomat

In reply to VanessaThirsk: Gertrude Bell was climbing in the alps at that time.

From 1902 regarding the Schreckhorn - Lauteraarhorn traverse

http://gertrudebell.ncl.ac.uk/letter_details.php?letter_id=1316

In reply to EwanR:


Also Miriam Underhill, Janet Adam Smith, and Helene Kuntze (coming the other way on the traverse!). Meta Breevort was a bit earlier, as was Mrs Mummery.

In reply to VanessaThirsk: Dorothy Pilley Richards - first ascent of the North Ridge of the Dent Blanche. Take it from me, it is hard, even with modern gear.

In reply to VanessaThirsk:
two good climbing autobiographies: Nea Morin's (forgotten the title) and Dorothy Pilley's Climbing Days.

In reply to VanessaThirsk:
Mountain men: an early history of rock climbing in Wales by Alan Hankinson. don't have it in front of me now but references to early female climbing in Wales throughout the book. May be of use.
http://www.rogerwoodbooks.co.uk/products-page/mountaineering/hankinson-alan...

In reply to EwanR:


A very challenging route to this day! I would love to have done it (or to do it)

In reply to VanessaThirsk:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Una_Cameron

http://www.nls.uk/collections/foreign/mountains/private-print

In reply to VanessaThirsk:

Mummery did the Traverse of the Grepon with Lily Bristow - a friend of his wife's. Not too much is known about her - she would make an excellent research topic.

In reply to VanessaThirsk:
Thank you so much for everyones help, ive got lots to look into.
i was just wondering if there are any other Female or female dominated climbing clubs
do you know whether women were excluded from many of the first climbing clubs or did they have a few female members?

In reply to VanessaThirsk:
Have a look at 'Women on the Rope' by Cicely Williams ISBN 0 04 796040 X pub. 1973

In reply to VanessaThirsk:
Thanks,

Also i need to reference bibliographies i have used to complie my own - ive got Jill Neate Mountaineering Literature and W. R. Neate Mountaineering and its Literature - just wondering if there are any more

In reply to VanessaThirsk:

The SMC didn't allow woman members until 1989. I think there are one or two in England who still don't (but don't quote me).

In reply to VanessaThirsk:

Hi Vanessa

Just sent you an email detailing stuff which might help.

Cheers,
Colin

In reply to VanessaThirsk:

Regarding the so-called 'Senior Clubs'; the Fell & Rock Climbing Club was the only one that had membership from both sexes right from the start in 1906. (Alpine Club did not accept women until 1974, Climbers' Club 1975, SMC 1989, Rucksack Club ca. 1993ish)

Interestingly, this has led to noticeable legacy in the 'culture' of the various clubs. The FRCC have always had separate male & female dormitories in their huts - something I suspect is unique among climbing clubs - at least in the UK, and they have long had a policy of acquiring smaller properties close to some of their huts which gives priority to family groups - again, unique as far as I'm aware.

There was also a big overlap between FRCC and the foundation of the Pinnacle Club - one of the leading lights, Pat Kelly, was FRCC and wife of leading early 20th century Lakes climber Harry Kelly, - a progressive socialist, agnostic (and feminist!) Mancunian climber.

Derek Walker has written an excelelnt summary of club development here:
http://www.thebmc.co.uk/Feature.aspx?id=1483

Cheers,
Colin

In reply to VanessaThirsk:
ive contacted the archivist of the Pinnacle club however the journals wont be going online for some time. the journals are avaliable on CD however there only being distributed to pinnacle club members - has anyone got any ideas of how i could get a copy as i just cant get to London at the moment