UKH

On a recent Mongolian expedition I nearly died: check out the link for details of the problem: http:
//www.alpine-club.org.uk/alpineclub/heatExhangerPotsWarning.htm

Take care out there,
Dave Wynne-Jones

In reply to Dave Wynne-Jones:
Very interesting.
The question I have is:
Is a flame burning and producing CO significantly less energy efficient so as to render the use of a heat exchanger pan over a normal pan effectively useless?

In reply to gethin_allen:

You shouldn't use any gas stove in a restricted area.
We have public safely TV adds on it here! Warning signs on all benchtops in huts and shelter walls. I think people gas themselves cooking inside tents and Huts with windows closed fairly regularly.

In reply to Dave Wynne-Jones:

ok. im interested in this.

the article doesnt state much other than the apparent operations of the stove (which is interesting).
can we have details on which specific stove the accident occured with, the altitude you were at, the type of gas being used and the ventilation of the tent.

after using jetboils and reactors, heat-its, and xgks with all sorts of flux rings/exchangers at altitude (up to 7000m, often for weeks on end) and never having had a problem of this nature, im keen to learn more.

not discrediting the issue at all - just wanting the sort of details that will help minimize any problems.

In reply to Dave Wynne-Jones:

Very sobering, and I'm very glad to hear you & your companion were saved before it was even more serious.

In the Antarctic I was told that as many people have died of CO poisoning through cooking in tents & huts; as have died in crevasse falls. Which puts the risk into context. We always had a CO detector and were reminded to check it daily, though of course it's one more thing to carry at altitude.

This issue needs to be spread as widely as possible.

In reply to gethin_allen:

The short answer to this is No. From my experience using these heat exchanger units at altitudes up to 2500m there is a significant impact on gas consumption by the stoves such that over a 14 day trip, melting snow, a tent pair would use a couple of canisters fewer than with the trad system.

Dave

In reply to KiwiPrincess:
Sometimes ther is little choice about using the stove in a tent, if camping on a remote glacier in storm conditions for example. With care it is manageable but clearly extra care needs to be taken when any new element is introduced to the system.

In reply to ice.solo:
Sorry about the delay in getting back to you with details: I've been away for a few days.
I'd prefer not to name the manufacturer because they have been very positive in their reaction to my feedback to them rather than making any attempt to pass the buck. It would therefore be a shame if their sales were hit by publicicing this issue relative to their product when, from the feedback from a researcher in the area, it is a problem common to all heat exchanger arrangements to a greater or lesser degree.
In fact the arrangement I was using worked perfectly at 2400m & 3100m where we had access to a water supply, however cold. It was at 3600m when we were melting snow/ice that the problem emerged. I think the factors influencing it included management issues in that we had been reassured by the good performance at the lower altitudes and were hurrying to get out in the morning so almost certainly allowed the pot to become so cooled by adding too much snow that the "quenching effect" was more pronounced.
It is clear that the new generation of heat exchangers are more intensive in their operation so there may be more of a problem with them but I'm glad to hear you have had no problems in your usage.

Dave

In reply to KeithW:
Thanks for your good wishes.
On the antarctic peninsular we used the same arrangement to melt snow & cook inside the tent for the same reason, very strong cold winds, but had no problems with CO. That may have been because we were operating at lower altitudes so the quenching effect was less with more oxygen around and/or we managed the cooking arrangements better because we were not affected by altitude.
I agree that this info needs to be as widely disseminated as possible, hence the AC website notice, this posting on UKC & the BMC have also included it on their website.

Dave

In reply to Dave Wynne-Jones:

All stoves generate CO, heat exchanger or not, high or low altitude. Here's an excellent article:

http://zenstoves.net/COHazard.htm

I think all stoves need a stove pipe (aluminum foil would be light) to carry all the nasty gasses out of the tent, even for low emission stove systems. After all any CO at all is going to compromise your health. And since the symptoms of CO poisoning mirror altitude sickness and aggravate it, many tragedies blamed on altitude could well be due to CO.

In reply to Dave Wynne-Jones: what sort of gas did you use