UKH

I am looking for a new bike for general mountain biking in the Austrian alps, but I have little knowledge/interest of bikes themselves, even though I would consider myself a decent intermediate in the bike park. It's all a bit techy, and I just want something to do what I need it to, without getting into all of the different technical aspects of brakes, gears, etc..... 

For reference, I already have a downhill bike (YT Tues) which I am using to ride the bike parks at Saalbach/Leogang normally. Overall very happy with it (it gets me confidently down any runs in the bike park) but is the only downhill bike I've owned, so I don't have another reference point.

What I would now like is a bike for non-lift assisted mountain biking. In my opinion, it should be able to get down an intermediate run in the bike park comfortably, but should also be able to be pedaled uphill well as there will be equally as much uphill as downhill on this bike.  

There are various different names such as "trail", "XC", "All Mountain", "Enduro", but what do I actually need??

I'm thinking:

Full suspension

29" wheels. 

Dropper seat post

Do I need to be able to lock out the front and/or rear suspension for going uphill? or is the suspension setup so different that it's not required??

No. of gears??

Recommendations of specific bikes would be good as it would give me a starting point. I would like to stick to euro brands, as I need to get serviced maintained here.

First bike I looked at, as an example, is a Cube Stereo One. Not sure if this is a good reference? Again, there are a million options with this model ranging form 2k to 5k, but I have no idea what I really

budget wise - 2500 euro. Unless there is a compelling reason to pay more or less for specific features. 

Cheers

Are you generally better on the ups, or downs. And then do you want a bike that plays to your strengths, or compensates for them? Do you take drops and jumps? And if so how big?

Theres been a general improvement in how bikes in each of the “traditional” types you mention above handle. There’s also some new sub types that cross these brackets like “down country”. Whether these are useful new descriptors or marketing guff is up for debate.

Maybe a trail bike that climbs well, or a down country might be a good start. 
I’m a fan of Scott bikes, and their twin lock system that lets you remotely lock out front and rear suspension from the bars. They tend to lighter, and faster uphill bikes. I have the new type Spark (120/130mm travel) with the shock hidden in the frame, and it’s a great ride, very fast. But I probably ride it to its limit (for me, anyway) with technical intermediate trails, at most tackling 2-3ft drops and small jumps. For a bit more downhill the new Genius (150mm travel?) looks great.

There are of course similar bikes in the other major brands, without the twin lock system. 

An awful lot of bikes market themselves as roughly what you want, pedallable on the ups, fun on the downs and encompasses 'downcountry' bikes through to enduro. For a middle of the road suggestion, if you like your current YT you could look at the YT Izzo, the part alloy part carbon model is in your budget and the full carbon model not a huge leap. Both no. of gears and country of manufacturer are red herrings, any bike shop should be able to service any bike amd most are made in the far East anyway, and all the bikes that you will look at it will be 11 or 12 speed, either of which are fine 

Short answer YT Jeffsy or simar Trail bike.

Long answer. Something between Downcountry, Trail or Enduro depending on your exact preference.  So the DC will pedal up and along  better than the other two. The enduro will descend better than the other two. The Trail will ascend better than the Enduro and descend better than the DC.

It just depends what you want to prioritise. Given that you have the Dienstag I would not buy the Enduro as it is too similar. 

A DC ( for example YT Izzo) would be great on all general MTB up to a certain gnarliness level, at which point the Trail bike would suit slightly better.

Jeffsy is the YT Trail bike.

PS. Spend more. Unless you are very lucky in the sales, 2.5k will not buy you a very nice bike.

Being in Austria/Germany I would be considering the direct to consumer brands based out in Europe for best value for money. bikes that i would be considering if it was me based upon what you have described would be: 

Canyon spectral 29 AL 5 2299 Euro - https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/mountain-bikes/trail-bikes/spectral/29/spectra...

Radon Slide Trail AL 8.0 29 2159 Euro - https://www.bike-discount.de/de/radon-slide-trail-al-8.0

You could also see what is avialable from Vitus/Nukeproof/Airdrop however these might be hit by additionaltaxes/delivery charges. 

Thanks for the suggestion, I like the idea of being able to lock out the suspension, as I imagine that makes a big difference pedaling uphill, and especially being able to do it on the fly. 

For this bike, I guess it will be more single trail type stuff with small drops, and over rocks, tree roots etc, so no need for the same level of suspension as a downhill bike. More like cycling round local trials through the woods and on gravel tracks etc. 

I would be happy to take another YT, and was looking at the Izzo or Jeffsy (as mentioned below), but the problem is YT never seem to have any bikes in stock (and currently doesn't say when they will be available)

I agree that an enduro bike i.e. Yt Capra will be too similar to the Tues, so I'm more inclined to head towards an Izzo style bike. If I want to ride more extreme terrain then I can go to the bikepark. 

So, I think I'm getting a better idea of what I want. 

When you say that 2.5k bike will not be very nice, what do you mean?? If I take as example the Jeffsy, they range from 3 to 5 k, what is the 5k one doing for me in terms of ride and feel that the 3k does not??

I have seen  a few Canyon bikes kicking around (although more road bikes), but I wasn't sure if they were more a decathlon type of brand. i.e cheap, but not actually any good. 

Radon I've never heard of. 

Weigh significantly less and this be more fun up and along, allowing you to go further. Allows you to move the bike around better.

Brakes and gears should work better. Slicker shifts. Less brake fade ( not sure that's still a think tbh though) brake later and better.

Suspension will work better. React quicker, be better damped. You'll go faster, for longer with a less beat up body.

All of the above is of course tempered the " how much spare cash have you got and how much do you like mountain biking" question.  For me, its the main sport that we do as a family so we spend more on bikes than cars. But I realise that doesn't work for everyone.

The current continuum MTB 'types' got from:

[Gravel] - XC 'Racing'- Down Country - Trail - Enduro - DH

Plus Hardtail fitting in anywhere depending on your level of gnar, but typically within XC to Trail for most people.

'All Mountain' term used less nowadays. 

https://off.road.cc/content/feature/types-of-mountain-bikes-every-mtb-categ...

Sounds like you want something in the Down-Country to lower end Trail:

Although these links include high bikes, should give you a feel of brands and ranges to look at (or find a higher end one 2nd hand, which TBH is the way to go once you know a bit more of what you want and if you have the time/will to keep searching):

https://www.mbr.co.uk/buyers_guide/best-crosscountry-mountain-bikes-396502

https://www.mbr.co.uk/buyers_guide/best-down-country-mountain-bike-398081

https://www.mbr.co.uk/buyers_guide/best-mountain-bike-of-the-year-323484

https://www.mbr.co.uk/buyers_guide/best-mountain-bike-under-2000-322893

Hardtail is also defo an option to consider to start with; I've ridden quite in bit in France and Corsica on techy GR routes with a long travel (160/170) hardtail; a lot of fun can be had; but it can be brutal.  Always liked my Commencal Meta HT (had two over the years).

Mountain biking is probably my second or third summer sport (after trail running and climbing), and downhill biking will most likely remain my main focus for biking. 

This is more popping out in the local area when I have spare couple of hours, hence I don't want to overspend on it unnecessarily on it. I'm guessing the biggest price differentiator is carbon vs alu frame, correct?? and is it really worth extra for a carbon frame?

Canyon are fine, a "direct from the buyer" outfit, although they have struggled with distribution recently – who hasn't? – and their road bikes have integrated "cockpits" (dread word). But anything good enough for MVDP is good enough for me, or anyone else. Mrs F has their alu Endurace model and hasn't reported any problems. 

Yep, understood

Not for a Fully at the 2500 Euro mark.

For me yes, as I love carbon bikes, love lightness and love mtb. Around the £2-3k mark possibly not. You'd be better getting better components

ok thanks, good to know.

So in this price range I'm probably better of with an alu frame with a better spec components. 

In my view, yep

I was looking at Rose bikes yesterday. They seem to have some really nice stuff

https://www.rosebikes.com/rose-root-miller-2-2709632?product_shape=Miami+Ic...

Missed the edit window...

Would also agree with sxrxg on Radon Slide and that you'd be better buying from ze Germans rather than focusing on the UK market.

PS, Canyon get a lot of slating on singletrackworld.com for bad customer service.  No idea if it is justified, but putting it out there. ( it may just be because they sell more in the UK than all the other Germans combined and so generate a higher absute number of complaints

Thanks everyone for all the replies. Lots of stuff to look into. 

Whatever style of bike, I'd be looking for something with a Pinion gearbox. Top of my list would be a custom Curtis. frame. 

Both Canyon and Radon have shorter travel lighter more cross country options as well if that is a route you are considering: 

Canyon Neuron 6 AL 2299 Euro - https://www.canyon.com/en-at/mountain-bikes/trail-bikes/neuron/al/neuron-6/...

Radon Skeen Trail 9.0 2399 Euro - https://www.bike-discount.de/de/radon-skeen-trail-9.0-1

Canyon also have a really intresting bike the Spectral 125, this combines lighter weight than the normal trail bike, shorter 125mm rear travel with 140mm front travel however keeps aggressive long low slack geometry with 64° head angle and 76.5° seat tube. For me this is a really intresting combintation, it might not be for the type of riding you want to do though, also cheapest one is slightly above the 2500 euro budget. 

Canyon Spectral 125 AL6 2699 Euro - https://www.canyon.com/en-at/mountain-bikes/trail-bikes/spectral-125/al/spe...

I guess you mean trails (not trials as in Danny McCaskill type stuff)? 

If you've got loads of money, buy anything you're going to love and get out and enjoy it! But otherwise if that's really all you want a bike for, many of the suggestions so far seem to be hugely over the top. A decent hardtail (XC or trail) will do that with ease and as long as your local trails through the woods aren't mega steep and super rocky, it sound like the stuff I'll happily ride my gravel bike on. If you've already got a DH bike why not go towards the other end of the spectrum?

I did say a hardtail was defo an option ....  but it is the Austrian Alps ... and the OP is riding everything at Leogang (very famous for its DH WC course) ... 

I was thinking hard tail when the OP mentioned intermediate trails and riding the uphill bits, not so sure now.

Also I was going to suggest having more than one chainring.

Don't suggest having more than one chainring, their demise has not been mourned in the mtb community and they now only exist on supermarket bikes for good reason

For 2,500Euros ! Dream on.

You got a source for that? According to the cayon website the AL6 125 is 15.4kg and the standard one is15.32kg. Which emphasises the pointlessness of that decision. Using the same frame on a shorter travel bike is great for the manufacturer but bullshit for the consumer. If I'm running 125mm travel I don't want to be lugging around an overbuilt frame that's designed for 150mm of bounce. Worst of both worlds...

Whilst I reckon I could get down most stuff on a hardtail, I'm just not sure how much fun it will be, hence I'm quite liking the look of something like the Scott where you can lock out (or something where you can easily adjust the suspension on the move). 

Actually, I sometimes ride my wife's 600 euro hard tail down the flow trail in my village, which is actually pretty fun as it's kind of bmx size for me, but I wouldn't want to pedal it uphill at that size. Also not sure how long my wife's bike will last if I continue.....

"his combines lighter weight than the normal trail bike, shorter 125mm rear travel with 140mm front travel however keeps aggressive long low slack geometry with 64° head angle and 76.5° seat tube. "

Thanks for the reply and suggestions, but the above text may as well be in Chinese for me, and why I find MTB stuff really techy. 

The frame weight is listed as nearly 400g lighter (https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/blog-content/mountain-bike-news/spectral-125-v...) and is a different frame and therefore arguably no better for the manufacturer than any other new bike. As for the full bike weight can only assume there must be something weird going on with spec choice that isn't equal between the two models. 

Also with higher anti squat values it should be a better climber, also the suspension will ramp up quicker making the bike more poppy. Both of these things will make the bike feel more efficient/lighter and the ride feel will likely be considerably different to the longer travel offering. 

Custom steel with a pinion from a boutique UK builder is painfully niche

Thanks for that I stand corrected.

I'll try to give some more info....

Up until fairly recently shorter travel bikes were very twitchy and responsive due to frame angles and tube lengths. They were optimised for racing on easier terrain. They had long stems ( the bit that holds the handlebar on) and steep head angles  ( ie the line running down from the stem to the front forks to the tyre contact patch was closer to vertical ).

Longer travel bikes had longer frames, shorter stems and less steep head angles. They were much more stable to help you hold a line down steep rubbly descents. Because the stem was shorter and the frame longer you were much less likely to pitch over the handlebars on steep tricky stuff.  Best way to imagine it is to think of a pimped out Harley Davdson or Chopper motorbike.  The front wheel is waaaaay out in front. Really stable, really relaxing ...

What has happened "recently" is that the geometry from the longer travel bikes has moved across to the short travel bikes as well. This makes them more stable and better for riding slightly more techie terrain.  ( alongside this XC races have got more technical and rocky, which these new bikes are better for)

The upshot of all this is that today's short travel bikes are much more fun and capable than old short travel bikes. So you can take them down harder stuff and still enjoy it. ( your arms and body may take a hammering due to shorter suspension, but aside from that.

Does that bring it to life any?

Price up regular replacement of mangled rear mechs and constant chain/sprocket replacements. plus all the junk hanging on the end of the swingarm, exactly where you don't want it.

My preferred option, probably not for the OP though.

The price is definitely holding me back but I can dream. A bit of nostalgia for me as I used to race on Curtis BMX frames in the 80's

Trek Slash. Awesome bike and great value.

Whoa..... do you have one?

Like it?

I'm thinking g of getting one for my son but finding it impossible to get a demo ( and alo baulking a bit at the price tag.

What one you got?

Where do you ride it? 

< edit: trying to work out if your username is a reference to where you cycle or something else>

One of my Peak riding mates has a Slash; loves it now, after he ditched their carbon made-of-butter-rims (two exploded) and got his rear shock sorted (probably faulty from new).  He's flying for sure on it now.

My son is on a 2nd hand Remedy carbon; really impressed with that as well.

Sounds like you need a trail bike:  https://www.mbr.co.uk/buyers_guide/best-full-suspension-mountain-bike-39600...

I certainly wouldn't shoot for an enduro bike given you've already got a DH bike (I don't have a DH bike because I have a long travel enduro bike at the moment).  And I wouldn't shoot for an XC bike unless you want to do XC.

Yes - 29er

Yes - dropper

Gears - 1-by is the only option ... so that means 10,11 or 12.  The number of gears don't really matter (i.e. don't worry if it's 10 vs 11 vs 12) .. the range does matter if you want to climb.  You should be expecting something in the 500% range(ish).

Travel - given you have a DH bike I'm going to guess you're likely used to using your travel.  On that basis - shoot for the longer end of the trail bike range i.e. 150-160mm.  (You can always stiffen them up if you want to .. but you can't add more travel later if you decide you need it without changing out the forks/rear shock)

Weight - i wouldn't over think it.  0.5Kg isn't something you need to get hung up about .. just take 0.5Kg less stuff in your back pack and you'll be fine.  

Geometry matters - buy a bike with modern trail geometry.  Anything MBR recommends will fit the bill.  

Last thought .. quality over quantity.  

Come back and tell us what you decide upon!! (I've got new bike psych for you!)

Oh gawd, vacuous thing to say

Yep, coming round to the idea of a trail bike. I'll make a shortlist over the weekend, and see what's available in stock, and then post it up for opinions.

I really can't agree that a 150-160mm can be stiffened up and will be equivalent to a shorter travel bike. The engineers will have optimised the leverage curves around the travel and by stiffening it up you will just make the suspension performance worse and potentially make the bike ride poorly. A shorter travel bike will be optimised around that so will still be supple off the top yet become stiffer more quickly allowing you to pump and pop off the terrain. I think it is really important to decide on what the bike is to be used for and then pick the travel and geometry required for that type of riding. For example a 120-130mm bike will be much better for all day marathon type riding in rolling terrain than a slacker trail bike, it will be more efficient and the geometry will make it more fun in rolling terrain than most long low slack trail bikes. 

I do actually agree with you on that - I was trying to simplify.  My point is really that I have in past I have wished I had more travel .. but there are very few times I've ever wished I had less and not been able to tweak them a little to get by.  (I am not making the case to be over biked)

From the OP has provided that:  "it should be able to get down an intermediate run in the bike park comfortably, but should also be able to be pedaled uphill well as there will be equally as much uphill as downhill on this bike."

#1 - Vast majority of modern trail bikes should be able pedal uphill okay.  Certainly all the ones in MBR's bike of the year will be able to.

#2 - Let's assume that means reds at the bike park.  Reds at the bike park are not reds in the wild.  You're going to have drops and doubles on a red at a bike park.  If it were me .. and I were buying a bike to run reds at the bike park .. I'd want travel at the upper end of the trail bike range i.e. 150-160mm.  Everyone is different.  Maybe you'd be happy running bike park reds with 120mm.

Cheers

This is where I admit to being a complete contradiction... I am recommending full sus 29'r bikes however after owning a fairly hard hitting 150mm trail bike I now ride a 27.5 steel hardtail with 63° head angle and 150mm up front. I ride this everywhere including many bike park black trails. For me it is way more enjoyable, smaller wheels are more manageable yet the slack head angle and low bottom bracket offset this on really steep fast stuff. The feeling of the damped steel is lovely and takes the edge off the worst chatter. I am probably slightly slower on this bike however I feel much more involved with the riding and the terrain, for me this equals more smiles per mile which is what is important to me. 

Fairs fair ... sounds like a great bike!!!

I'm riding a 29 carbon enduro bike ... 170/160mm.  Absolute weapon.  Love it. 

Makes a distinctly average MTB'er look distinctly less average. 

The new Vitus Mythique gets some fairly rave reviews with the VRX being within your budget and the better equipped AMP being 300 euro over but possibly a better buy. With 140mm of travel it shouldn't have too much overlap with your DH rig while still being able to handle bike park terrain (just)

Hi, I actually have a Remedy but rode a 2022 Slash earlier in the year (borrowed) and now really want one. Really fast, really agile,  brilliant all rounder.  Loved it. Yes, my name reflects my home stomping ground!