UKH

Just received new cyclocross tyres for my gravel bike, and they are super tight. All the reviews said how good they were, but I failed to notice folks mentioning how hard they were to get on the rims. Anyone got any top tips? I read somewhere to pop them in the oven at 60 degrees for 10 mins, but that scares me a little. 

In a warm room if you can - the tyres will be easier and your fingers will work better.

Last ones I fitted made me think I'd never be able to do that to fix a puncture in the cold & wet

I've used a hairdryer on them before now....definitely better heated up a bit but also make sure you have got the bead on the other side as straight and flush as you can....

...usually a lot of cursing when I do this stuff...

Do you know what the rim well is and do you think you are using it fully? If so, then yeah, extreme stuff like ovens (although a hair dryer seems easier) might be your answer. Just making sure the tire is in a nice warm house for a few hours has worked for me fitting Marathon Plus tires in the past. 

Last year I had a fight with some new Vittorias - from my blog:

"When I first tried putting a Trail Tech on my rims it was a total battle. Having mounted different Schwalbe Marathon models over the years - famed for being hard to fit - this was upsetting as it calls into question my a) self-appointed expert tire changer status and b) manhood. After composing myself, wiping away the tears, and watching a few YouTube "how to fit tight tires" vids for inspiration, I had another go and by really forcing the beads of the tyres in the well of the rim and working down, managed to get it on." http://lightfromthenorth.blogspot.com/2020/05/vittoria-trail-tech-g-tubeles... The youtube video (some Aussie guy - just search "fitting tight bike tires", was really helpful just in making me focus on the rim well! Get it in the rim well and I bet it goes on! Good luck and have handcream ready for the obligatory skinned knuckles!

Thanks all - I have hung them above a radiator to start with - it's been many years since I needed to use a hair dryer....If I get a puncture in a race I'm going home. 

Cable ties can help, I'm led to believe, though I never tried it myself (despite running Schwalbe Marathon Plus on any bike I ever have - as others have said these are a pain to fit).

Washing up liquid

This issue with crazy tight tyres and rims seems to be getting more and more frequent. I blame the push towards tubeless tyres. With the aim of getting tyres that seat without the need of a compressor and to get tyres that don't burp on corners companies have changed the profile of the rims and tightened up the beads to the point that anyone without stout levers and mighty thumbs are stuffed. I'm still running tubes, I don't fancy having to top up sealant every 6 months and I've never found tubes an issue.

something slippy, like washing up liquid with a bit of water.  Tyre as far into the well as possible, all eight fingers wrapped around the tyre and rim  and your palms, base of your thumbs and wrists doing the pushing with a rolling/twisting action, away from you as you grip the wheel.  Your thumbs alone are not enough.

It may be beneficial to chant 'Fxxx not with me, you little bastard' as you twist

Enjoy

Yes, what nniff says. It's mostly about hand position and using the full strength of both hands. Get both your hands over the tire as if you're holding an oar in a rowing boat.

Yes, this is the source of the problem in many cases. On the majority of older standard road clincher rim/tyre combinations I can get the tyre off and on without using levers in a matter of minutes. Ever since I got my gravel bike which I have two sets of wheels for, both with tubeless ready rims (but I'm using tubes), I have had to use tyre levers to get the tyre off, and much swearing to get them back on. I shallower well in the rim on tubeless rims makes quite a difference.

To the OP - good luck! Everyone else has given most advice, though I'd add you can use a tyre lever to get the last bit on if you are careful, but be sure not to pinch the tube when doing so - tuck it right up into the tyre.

Right. Kids are in bed so they won't hear me swearing....here goes. 

After a fight to get some Gator Skins on recently I bought one of these…

https://www.wiggle.co.uk/lifeline-tyre-seating-tool?lang=en&curr=GBP&am...

It was obvious I wasn’t going to manage to fix a puncture out on the road with winter cold thumbs alone. I’ve not yet needed to have a go with it, so the jury is still out on whether it’ll actually do the job…

Talc or washing up liquid. Work toward the valve. When you get stuck go back to the start and squeeze the beads into the centre of the rim running your fingers back toward the valve. Then use the heel of your hands to roll the tyre over the rim. Don’t try to push the bead over with your thumbs. Just keep working at this and it’ll go eventually. 

The difficult bit is always the last bit of bead.  As you close in on the last section.   Work round all the bead that is already inside the rim , and push it down into the rim well.  That should give the extra clearance to get the last bit of bead over without too much effort.

I'd agree it seems to be more of an issue with rim design and the push towards tubeless.

I don't have any issues getting the 23mm tyres on or off my decent wheels - although getting the cheap tyres off the rims on my hack bike are another story.

But I do need tyre levers to get the wider 28-32mm tyres off the rims on my CX bike rims and they are a bitch to get back on. The Conti GP4S especially, but they are renowned for being very tight.

I've also noticed I have to really pump them up to quite high pressures to get them to seat properly on the rims, leave them for a while and then back the pressures off a bit.

I run tubeless across seven (family) bikes (gravel & MTB), running a right mixture of tyres and rim combos. Often with liners (gravel & MTB) that do make it a bit trickier getting tyres on.

But I don't recognise the portrayal of it getting noticeably worse to set up tubeless. I think most modern tyre/rims combos make it easier than it used to be - though some rim/tyre combos are harder for sure, so the OP could be hitting that issue.

That being said, ... you do just need to get good at it, and there are some of your own tricks you need to develop.  And a compressor does speed things up a lot.

If a tyre is troublesome, try and keep the beads in the centre of the rim, this will give the tyre 'space' for you to pop on that that last bit. 

Also put the lever (I like Pedro's) in the centre of the bead section that needs to go on and then slide it to the side.  Do it in small steps.  Your knee/foot also can be used to hold down the other end of the bead section while you lever the other end.  I have an old cushion that I put the wheel on, so I can do the wheel flat on the ground.

And make sure you check the bead line is off the rim.  Pump it fairly hard to start with, ride around on it for a bit and leave for a while at higher pressure, before dropping to ride pressure. I think this helps set the bead and let the sealant cure/weld.

And that bead pop noise is most satisfying
 

I've read informed advice that, rather than topping up the sealant, you're meant to remove the old sealant and replace it with new.  Either way, it may OK for people who enjoy spending as much time in the workshop as out riding I suppose but it's not for me.  Washing the bike, cleaning & lubing the drivetrain and other moving parts, checking tyre pressures and a general once-over with an eye out for anything that looks awry is enough for me as a regular maintenance regime.  Brake pads and chains get replaced when wear is approaching the limit.  Other things get done when the bike starts making funny noises or not responding properly to control or pedal inputs.  So I work largely on an "if it ain't broke..." basis, but modern bikes do seem to be getting more and more like cars in needing a calendrical maintenance cycle.

However, resistance to the tubeless juggernaut may turn out to be fruitless if the trend towards tyres that can't be fitted by normal mortals continues.

The ONLY thing that got a set of tubeless tyres on for me was the crank brothers speedier lever:

https://tinyurl.com/3r8kymcy

The lifeline thing linked to above didn't touch it but, contrary to my expectation, this thing worked a treat. 

I'm more surprised now when putting a new tyre on a road bike (4 of them in the household)  if I don't struggle to get it on. My wife bought one of the Lifeline gizmos linked to above - this definitely makes the job easier at home with no need to use hair dryer or skin your knuckles - but nobody is carrying that around with them as it's way too big to fit in any pouch or pocket.

One of these does fit most places - and is worth adding to your kit as again it does work although you have to be slightly more careful to make sure the tube is out of the way (ie already in the rim all the way round) and it needs a bit more leverage (as the 'lever' isn't as long). I believe they're also made in the UK too!

https://www.tyrekey.com/

.. that's riding to failure, which isn't bike maintenance ...

Utter nonsense

I was on the verge of tears (of rage) when I put my Gravelking SKs on my second bike... 😆

Are they really as fantastic as shown on the videos?

youtube.com/watch?v=ZbO_03rKyPk&

youtube.com/watch?v=RAdVc35EQ-A&

Very tempting....

I can't say other than when (trying to fit some Hutchinson tubeless to carbon mavics) I was on the verge of changing tyres altogether when one of these solved it just like that.

It's also just about small enough to take out on the road for emergency. 

Yes.

CB

I haven't got a special tool like the ones in the videos  (Crank Bros and the other) but when I replace difficult tyres with standard tyre levers the main problem is that as the lever pushes one edge of the remaining unseated section on to the rim the opposite edge comes off. In the videos there seems to be no tendency for this to happen. It makes me suspicious that the videos are not made with difficult rim/tyre combinations. Can anyone comment more authoritatively on this?

Also on the Crank Bros video the tool just slides round easily. I have often/usually encountered situations where a lever cannot just be slid round like this. Is it a clever shape of tool that slides better, an easy tyre rim combination or a form of lubrication that is not shown and may not be available out on a trail?

I think its a clever shape/concept. I need more experience actually using it to be more authoritative but it's different to using a conventional lever. Nothing to do with lubrication. 

A few of the people I know who run tubeless have destroyed expensive rims while supposedly taking advantage of the low pressures they say you can run, which seems to suggest that you can't really run these low pressures unless you have a sponsor and team of mechanics to hand you new wheels.

The addition of running liners on top of the faff of tubeless, with further expense, weight and fitting difficulty is another reason I don't fancy going that way.

Ex-bike mechanic - ask at your LBS to show you as there is ‘honour’ to preserve with bike mechanics and not use tyre levers to mount tyres - that said, we’d use them to remove tyres as life’s too short.
Talc the inside of the tyre, particularly new ones reduces the friction to roll it over the rim; centre the bead in the rim well use the heels of your hands to grip under the bead and rock the wheel as a lever towards you and push the bead away for the last bit. That said, there are some ‘painful’ combos like Conti GP5000s tubeless on Hunt Carbon rims that take some effort. 

I was reluctant but was persuaded by a canal ride where I was far from home (way too far to walk) and they had just trashed the hawthorn hedges all over the towpaths (which were grassy to hide the thorns). I fixed about four punctures before running out of repair material and spare tyres and got at least two more after that. Fortunately these later ones were slow enough that I could go about 3 miles between each pump up.  Every year the farms around here have a festival of hawthorn bashing and spreading. I couldn't face another another one so went tubeless. The conversion went fairly easily although I needed one new rim. Since the change I have been able to run (somewhat, not silly) lower pressures which has, as a bonus, given me better grip without rim damage (I am fairly light and don't do big drops). 

Post conversion I would say they have been less faff than tubes because of the complete freedom (so far) from punctures.

Yep +1

So far! I've had both experiences: The tyres that came on the bike (and get most use) have never had a puncture (3 years and counting). Some others have been less good - a few thorn punctures that simply would not seal which left me having to put a tube in (awash with sealant - horrible mess). YMMV as they say. Good when it works, horrible when it doesn't.

This on an MTB or larger gravel tyres ? Have you tried worms?

You can fix most issues pretty quickly with these (much faster than putting a tube in).

Friends use these:

https://ride.lezyne.com/products/1-pk-tbls-v104

You can pre load the worm on to speed things up further.

There are some subtleties for fitting tyres that are really important for some rim/tyre combos. A good youtube videos covering the correct procedure for fitting will help a long way.

Gravel. I carry worms (anchovies?), but didn't use them since these puncture were just pinholes. It seemed counter-intuitive to have to make the holes bigger in order to put a worm in the seal it. Or was I wrong?

Carrying a tyre plug set (worms as ChrisJD put it) is useful. I once had a 5/6mm cut due to glass and was amazed that a tyre plug kit sealed such a large cut. I ran that tyre for some 15 mths afterwards and it was perfectly sealed for that all time. Would easily work with a thorn hole though I’ve been lucky all my thorn punctures over the years I’ve used tubeless have self sealed.

One friend has the “worm” pre threaded. Personally I don’t but then I do carry a small pump as speed is less important to seal.

I do appreciate that tubeless is not for everyone. Indeed I run a hybrid with tubes as I like to change tyres at least twice in a year on that bike for different riding requirements and see tubeless as a waste of sealant and is a bit messy with frequent tyre changes.

Overall, I’m very happy to run tubeless and particularly when thorn are problem! Thorns were what really made me change over; six thorn punctures in two weeks was the final push to change.

As an aside, one of my friends uses this system with tubes on his hardtail and he has been very impressed with both the level of protection and ride quality.  I've not tried, so can't vouch for it.

https://tannus.co.uk/armour-homepage

Can get to fit gravel tyres sizes as well.

Done. That was emotional. Front tyre went on a dream - 5 min job. Led me into a false sense of security as the back one was a beast. First inner tube was too long - never had that before, but it was a good couple of inches too long - odd. 2nd inner I pinched and put a small hole in (Will patch up tomorrow). 3rd inner, some renewed patience, and extra care, and the tyre eventually popped on. Thumbs no longer work, but the tyres look great, and can't wait to race on Sunday. Thanks for all the advice. Turns out that a glass of port is the best assistant. 

Where are you racing? 

Winter cyclocross series, Fontainebleau region. 

In my case the holes were just pinholes rather than 'cuts'. Still wouldn't seal and I'm not sure making them bigger by cramming an anchovy in would have helped. I'm tempted to think it was some incompatibility between the sealant and the tyre (natural) rubber, but I'm not a chemist.

Actually, I don't have a problem to fix. Most of my mileage is on well performing (never puncture) tubeless tyre. I only use the 'non-sealing' tyres on tarmac and them putting a tube in is a non-issue (no significant pinch flat risk). When I tried the tubeless, I loved the 'magic-carpet' ride - which has been somewhat lost by adding a tube - but on balance it's a good compromise.

Won’t see you at Andover then!

That does sound odd (and unlucky) - what sealant were you using?

I've tried a few types, but always come back to the original Stans or Stans-Race.

Good luck: ride hard and fast!

The problem combination was OKO Magic MIlk with Gravelkings. I've now moved onto Orange Seal, but haven't had a chance to try it with the GKs.

I had a Gravel King SK puncture and not seal. I later tried to fix it with a worm and more fresh sealant - still wouldn't seal. Removed the tire, cleaned it all out. Bought a special tubeless tire patch kit (which seemed mainly to comprise of normal inner tube patches but superglue rather than rubber glue). That didn't work either.

I've had two different sets of tires on the bike since then - and both have been pretty perfect in comparison to the gravelkings! But they still seem to be fashionably popular.

Not just me then. Sort of comforting.

Well they do give a very nice ride - particularly tubeless - and they're very light (38mm slicks). Just a pity they don't seal for some reason.

I had Swalbe Marathon Plus on for a few years. I didn’t have a problem putting them on as I could use levers but I had a major problem removing them because I couldn’t get the levers between the tyre and rim. The bead was really embedded in the “tubeless ready” rim. I carried a blunted screwdriver with me to use as a lever but this did put small nicks in the rim. When I finally gave in and went tubeless I used a Stanley knife to remove the tyres. 
The tubeless fluid is easy to renew as it is very thin and goes in via the Presta valve (with the actual valve removed). Not had a puncture for over a year i.e. 2000 mls.