UKH

Yes - quite a niche topic and no relevance to a climbing forum but more interested in the fell race equivalents than the climbing equivalents (although that might be fun too)!

I was watching The Road to Roubaix (again) the other night and the same opinion was repeated over and over - just to finish a Paris-Roubaix is an achievement. It got me thinking about which fell races might attract a similar opinion (in a very amateurish kind of way) so here is my question:

List cycle road races and their equivalent fell race. The fell race must be in the UK and a paid event.

I'm going to start off with:

Tour de France = The Spine Race

Giro D'Italia = The Dragon's Back

Your go.

Three Peaks=Three Peaks.

Not a road race but I like it!

The Bob Graham and the Fred Whitton are sort of equivalent.

Perhaps in geography, but not in effort or impact on your body. I always thought the rule of thumb for comparability was that bike rides should be at least five or six times longer in distance than running road races. So a 200km hilly audax ride was thought to be comparable with a road marathon.  That makes a Bob Graham equivalent the bike ride, not only quite long but must included a pre-dawn low point to be comparable in my eyes.

I think for the Spine Race you would have to have something that wasn't neatly divided up into Stages like the Tour de France. Something where you start and then you're on your own. It's not in the UK, but for 70 years the Calais-Brindisi audax has been up there in the long distance cycling world as a lonely, self paced ordeal.

I think GBDuro is more of a comparison to the spine, although perhaps not as great in reputation as either the tour or the spine. Yet. 

In that case the Ennerdale round would be comparable to the Fred Whitton but I don't think it instinctively matches in quite the same way.

South Downs way in a day and the 15 peaks

bang on . Not sure it makes much sense to compare but for nothing more than amusement , I reckon a BG is worth almost but not quiet 2 Freds . So I’ll say 1 BG = 1.75 FW .  

Was thinking about this overnight, and realised that any equivalent of the Spine has to have long nights and miserable weather. So how about a mid-winter LEJOG ? - the key would be to wait for a frost free couple of days so you don't crash and then accept everything else the weather could throw at you. Ideally a not too cold gale from the SW.

I know several who have managed a mid winter, night time Fred Whitton recently as the perfect antidote to the mid summer norm.

I often compare the big lakes classic races as akin to a TdF mountain stage, whilst medium races in less hilly upland areas (Peak, North York Moors) are more similar to the one day classics.

So whilst Wasdale (21 miles/3000m) is a grind and a whittling down of the contenders over the course of the entire race, like to going over several big alpine passes, something like the Guisborough Moors (10 miles/800m) race is more about getting over the early lumps in as good a position as possible, saving enough energy for an all-out attack on the last/penultimate climb - playing more like attacking on La Redoute/Roche aux Faucons at Liege. Maybe even saving everything for an attack on the Carreforre at Roubaix.

I'm going to give the Fred 55% of a BGR. 3 Peaks CX 66% of 3 Peaks fell. Old County Tops = South Downs Way?

Might sound odd but I think Edale skyline has a bit off a Milan - San Remo vibe about it. Early season, no one really gets going until late on in the race and at least when I did it the up and down Grindsbrook clough (the Derbyshire Poggio?) to steal a march on your opponents before the line.

Surely not. I've done the Fred as a complete punter, but the BG is surely way beyond.

7 hour FW, or 8 at a push is surely a better comparison.

No?

I think this is probably close as far as the Fred and BG go. Though I might put it a bit lower then 55% even. I did the Fred W in about 8 hours - and would have been at least half an hour faster without two major blowouts coming off Hardknott and again on Wrynose. And without being much of a road cyclist or great deal of time on the bike in training. Try taking on the BG with that level of prep and it will break you very early on I think. Can't speak for the 3 peaks CX v. fell race as I've only ever done the CX.

I always wanted to do bob graham.....but then I got ankle arthritis....etc.....so moved to cycling. I've wondered about a cycling equivalent. I may be wrong but I thought linking the white rose sportiva route with fred Witton may give a similar destroying experience.

Would be about 300miles...alot of hills

Probably more like MSR now that it goes the other way round and is generally good running throughout. The clamber up to Crookestone knoll and onto Ringing Roger gives you the Cipressa/Poggio double.

When run clockwise, before paving of Brown Knoll, it was a bit more Paris-Roubaix - the bog over brown knoll acting as a springboard to pull away over rougher terrain/lose people in the clag; the remaining edge path rough enough to keep it tricky.

Been out the game a while but back now, didn't know it had swapped directions. Must do it again and see how it stacks up.

Bingley Harriers:  Runners vs Cyclists = Cyclists vs Runners   (dependent on conditions)

I think you're right. I was thinking about this before I went to sleep last night and settled on 40-45%. Certainly the Fred is more bodgable. I was 10h+ I think, mostly with a slower friend. Not on the BGR roll of honour but have helped on a couple, my imaginary time would be somewhere around 23h55

3 Peaks CX gets dragged closer to the run effort by having extra (junk) miles and awkwardly shaped luggage on the first 2 climb.

I love it!

Must do the 3 peaks fell race someday. Unlikely this year (or has it been cancelled already?)... I'm holding out for the cyclocross going ahead though.

I'm surprised by the amount of talk about the Fred. I've done it and I'm not sure if i'd get around a Paris Roubaix in a week!

I didn't really want to include the BG as it opens up the doors to all sorts of mega challenges not to mention the other big rounds which is why I said paid fell races. 

I agree the TDF and the Spine are completely different - maybe the stage races are more like race series.

I wonder if these bigger events will be pushed back to the summer

Marathon du Mont Blanc..............Etape de Tour

Nothing offical yet but 900+ racers plus family/friends/spectators etc doesn't look likely for April. I wonder if they'll do the same as last year and punt it back to the same weekend as thre CX. I was looking forward to the once in a lifetime opportunity of a weekend 3 peaks double header!

Fun though this is, I can't help feeling this is a bit like those old arguments "If a grizzly fought a giant squid, which would win?"

Taking your first example (TdF vs. Spine) I can think of half-a-dozen justifications why the the TdF is far harder than the Spine. And another half-dozen why the Spine is far harder than the TdF. Road cycling and fell-running are like chalk and cheese. Apart from anything else, races like the TdF and Giro are only open to professional teams, so the biggest challenge is actually to become a World Tour pro in the first place. Once there, most will complete multiple GTs as a matter of course (it's their 'job').

As a tangential (but related) question, does anyone know of a world-class cyclist (past or present) who is also a top-class fell runner? Must be a fell-runner in the british sense (muddy, lots of up and down), so no triathletes please.

No, Almost certainly not possible unless it is much later in the year. I might also enter both if they end up falling on the same weekend..

Surprised no one has mentioned Strathpuffer which seems every bit as gruelling as any of the big rounds in winter with the added tedium of being loops of the same track

Yes the Ennerdale and Fred Whitton feel close-ish. I've done both (Ennerdale as a competitor, FW route but not as competitor). I was younger and fitter when I did the Ennerdale (2006) whilst the FW was 2020. Still, the Ennerdale took it out of me more.

There is so much more to deal / cope with during a long fell race, being away from habitation and navigating in crap weather being just a couple. Although personally I find these attractive features.

When cycling the FW I knew that even though I was out on my own, I could easily and quickly summon help if all went wrong. 

The Puffer is in no way comparable to BG/CRR/PB in winter.

If you want a riding achievement that's comparable to the CRR at least, try a winter Cairngorm loop, inner and outer.

Whilst I agree that entering the puffer isn't comparable, I'm struggling with the winter inner and outer stipulation. That seems a bit much... Has anyone even done that within 24 hours?

If the 3 Peaks Fell goes ahead in April I'll eat my buff. We've just cancelled our much smaller trail race planned for May

Yep, agree with Dave. Multiple laps of a fairly non-technical loop, never more than 20 minutes ride or 30-40 minutes walk from the race marquee / support / coffee / beer / food / first aid etc has almost no commitment to it. Being out on the hills at night in Wales, Lakes and esp on the CRR, even on a summer round is on a different scale altogether. Add in the winter factor and well, you're talking about an entirely different beast. 

Don't know but I'm not convinced that running for 24hrs and cycling for 24hrs are equivalent efforts. No freewheeling on a run!

You'd also have to be super clued in to conditions to do a winter cairngorm loop like you would need to be for a winter CRR for example.

I can't believe I've been drawn into the stupidity of this thread.

True indeed, but we both know that's a trick question. No idea about the outer loop, but the inner has big chunks where you ain't even riding, let alone freewheeling 😉

I agree that cycling 24 hours is much easier than running for that length of time. But I was working on number of completers as my benchmark of effort.  Can't quite recall but I don't think more than a couple of people have done a sub 24 C Loop and would be amazed if [m]any had done it in winter.  BGR on the other hand has quite a few completers. Hell my BiL has done it.

We've nothing better to do in Lockdown 😃

Looks like you're in luck (my Buff's safe) - 3 Peaks postponed to 3 Peaks weekend - https://www.threepeaksrace.org/

That's going to be quite a weekend!

What do we think the chances of a Lakeland triathlon on the 5th June still going ahead (x-triathlon)?

I haven't swam properly in almost a year so putting the date back a month or two might be a bonus for me!

Definitely the squid , 100 %, grizzly s are nowt , couldn’t even take that Boswell bloke and his numb nuts mate . 
edit : 8 f£&king arms . Count them . 8 . Grizzly ? 2 .