UKH

Looking getting a carbon road bike with hydraulic disc brakes to get back into road cycling after a couple of years off. I've only ever ridden Boardman before (had a SLR 9.2 which was great, but sadly not available).

Open to any brand (and second hand, but getting the right spec and size is difficult). Mates have suggested the following which seem similar on paper - appreciate I will need to ensure the bike fits me just researching to make a short list to go see / try - thanks in advance

Boardman SLR 8.9 Disc

Ribble Endurance SL Disc 

Trek Domane SL5 

Trek Emonda SL5 Disc 

Cannondale Synapse 4

In reply to Bezz:

Just to add Merida Scultura 4000 to the list... 

In reply to Bezz: Dolan Rebus or Tuono. Each bike customised to your size and spec

In reply to Bezz:

Always worth a look on PlanetX website too, very good value bikes and regular sales

In reply to Bezz:

Can't really comment in any depth other than I have a ribble r872, carbon frame, ultegra group set and I love it, that's it really 

In reply to Bezz:

In truth there aren't many 'bad' bikes out there: It's more a case of which ones get your juices flowing and which ones you don't. It's really more about *you* rather than the bike. Which one do you fancy? Ehich one is going to inspire to get out there? And of course which one is available/affordable.

For what it's worth, unless you're into racing, there's little practical advantage in carbon bikes over steel/aluminium/titanium. They may be a tiny, tiny bit lighter (compared to *your* weight) and a tiny bit more aero (how fast do you think you're going to go?), but that makes little difference day-to-day.

In reply to Marek:

Big question, but what are the cons of carbon? I'm looking at a bike where the Alu version is 800g heavier than the carbon one and that's pretty consistent across brands

In reply to Marek:

That’s like saying there’s no point in having a car capable of a top speed of more than 70mph unless you’re into racing on a private track. Carbon is a lot nicer and the reduced weight is very appreciated if riding hilly roads. No longer significantly more expensive than good quality aluminium and much cheaper than titanium

In reply to Bezz:

Best value for money have to be Planet X. The group sets alone on their bikes are often nearly as much money as the total cost of the bike they are on if bought separately.

In reply to Bezz:

I have a 2021 Defy Advance 1 that I’m really happy with. It’s a tad more expensive, but the 105 version is around that kind of price.

In reply to Marek:

Good advice, thanks. 
 

carbon appeals to me as I’ve had both aluminium and carbon and found the ride more forgiving on the carbon bike - weight really isn’t a big deal given I weigh 80 kg and that can swing up to 5kg each way ! 
 

In reply to Max factor:

Only con that stands out for me is that carbon is more fragile, easier to damage and harder to repair…but then again with care, that’s probably not a big deal?

In reply to Bezz:

Ribble. I've got an 872 and it's superb. The Endurance SL is even better by all reports.

In reply to Bezz:

I thought we'd parked the discussion that carbon was more fragile etc.. ? It isn't.  Expected lifespans for carbon bikes are longer than for Al bikes at least, and if C bikes don't like being dropped on sharp edges, neither do the alternatives.

Happy owner of last 2 bikes being carbon.  

At 2K all in I wouldn't be looking at crackatastic Ti bikes for life....

In reply to John Rothwell:

My experience of going to a Ribble showroom: 

Turned up. One example of each bike on the shelves. Got put on sizing rig for the Endurance and 872. Both felt wrong on the jig. Staff said, ah well. Couldn't standover the bikes or try fit any other way, and staff didn't have any good suggestion so went home. 

Was a bit rubbish really. 

In reply to Max factor:

I’d say the only real con is the risk of damage from it being struck and loaded in ways it’s not designed to be. That said, I’ve had lots of crashes and only caused damage once, and that was a broken seat stay which landed on a sharp edge with all my weight on it. Repaired for £300. 

In reply to Max factor:

I'm not saying other materials are better, just that you shouldn't disregard bikes because they're not made of carbon. When you're riding the bike you probably won't be able to tell what it's made of.

In reply to kevin stephens:

'Nicer' is just subjective 

A couple of hundred grammes is unlikely to be noticable to someone weighting (a typical, with bike) 80kg. I've had very light bikes and quite heavy bikes and in practice my times round routes in the Peak never correlated to which I was on. On long rides comfort was more important.

But my point was that one shouldn't assume it's any 'better'.

In reply to Bezz:

Aluminium tended to be a bit harsh, but modern frames like a CAAD13 (for example) are as comfortable as a comparably priced carbon frame. And (arguably) more fun to ride.

In reply to Bezz:

I'm not sure about that. Carbon is much stronger than you might guess and yes, it can be repaired. The most fragile-and-unrepairable is probably a light weight aluminium bike. But as you said...

In reply to Bezz:

I am a total punter regards biking matters but I have had a serious crash on a carbon bike.

Luckily for the bike frame (but definitely not for me!) I had a crash that ended with my face first in the road. The aluminium handlebars were bent on one side, I couldn't change gear but could cycle to the A&E. Followed having my face stitched up my handlebar was replaced and all is good.

The bike (pre and post crash) feels so much more forgiving than my previous Al frame bike.

In reply to Bezz: Might usefull to say where you are based ? One of my lbs sells Merida and both their road and mtb offerings fancy seem to be very well priced . If you can make it to wheelbase at stavely they have more road bikes in several brands than you can shake a stick at and have one of those snazzy fitting rooms . That would be the way to get sizing right . Also they usually have a sale in September of this years/ last years bikes .

In reply to Bezz:

You need to decide what style of bike you are looking for first of all - race or endurance ( I assume not an out and out touring bike ). The geometry can be quite different between the 2 styles, which can affect the comfort of your riding position ( if you've not been doing much cycling you possibly won't want to be forced into an aggressive tuck position that you may find you are unable to hold for long, or are uncomrtable doing so ), as well as things like max tyre clearance sizes.

eg in your original list, the Trek Domane is the endurance bike, but the Emonda is more a race bike. The Emonda will only accept tyres up to 28mm wide, but the Domane can take 38mm. Ideally you probably want a bike that can take 32mm tyres at least.

Similarly, there's a recommendation for a Merida Scultura - that's their racing geometry bike, you may be better with something from the Scultura Endurance range.

If you don't enjoy the fit of your bike, you won't want to go out on it, so make sure you get one you're comfortable on for a few hours.

In reply to steelbru:

good points, I’m a fairly regular cyclist but definitely prefer comfort over speed . 
 

I guess the geometry for race / endurance also varies between manufacturers too? 

In reply to Bezz:

Worth bearing in mind that carbon isn’t inherently more compliant and comfortable than aluminium. Its strong point is that it’s easier for designers to manipulate than alloy or steel, so brands can design carbon frames with almost any blend of stiffness and compliance they want in specific areas of the frame. I’d say it’s worth testing the bikes you are interested in if possible, as you may find some are more comfortable than others as there will be a difference even amongst bikes branded as being ‘endurance’ models.

For what it’s worth, I seem an outlier here as my experience with carbon road frames hasn’t been great. I’ve moved to steel now after managing to wreck my last Ribble when my chain came off the front ring on a steep climb and chewed through the carbon of the bottom bracket shell :’ (

In reply to wbo2:

What IS the expected lifespan for carbon, ish? I have a luvverly Bianchi, safely stored, which I've not used in earnest since before lock down. Time to use it or move it on? Or can I happily store it for another 5/10 years?

In reply to Bezz

I’ve found Dolan to be great. Well worth calling into their Ormskirk base for a fitting. I have had the pre-disk Tuono for some years, very comfortable and light

https://www.dolan-bikes.com/tuono-disc-carbon-road/

In reply to Siward:

Physically/chemically? Decades-ish. Aesthetically/emotionally? Probably less!

Yes, although you might find wear-n-tear replacement parts for it hard to come by.

In reply to Philb1950:

Have you seen any more on how they are doing though? Didn't they go into receivership of some kind just a month or two ago? I'm still seeing their ads so they are obviously still trading, but it didn't sound like things were very stable at Planet X currently.

In reply to Siward:

Well you’ll get over two decades out of a good aluminium frame, so a Carbon frame must outlast that.

In reply to Bezz:

As to frame compliance, it might have mattered when you were running 19mm tyres at 130 psi. But with wider tyres, at more reasonable pressures, they give far more compliance than any difference between frames.

In reply to Bezz:

Million dollar question really.  Pick one you like the look of, and try and ride it.  If you like it, go with that.  Rule 1 thereafter is don't ride anyone's else's bike just to see what it's like, and hence stay happy with what you have.  Be equally wary of picking someone else's bike up.

I have too many bikes. 

For what it's worth - I think wheels make the most difference.

I have one carbon bike with machine-built wheels at about £900/pair.  They are brutally harsh

My alloy commuter has cheap machine built wheels that go round and take all the hammer that commuting throws at them.

I have a stupid expensive carbon bike with mentally expensive wheels - fast, very light, comfy, low spoke count, and prone to breaking spokes, at which point the wheel turns into a pringle and the telephone call of shame has to be made.

I have a hand-made stainless bike that has Chris King hubs and a high spoke count.  Currently on DT Swiss rims.  Fast, light, tough as old boots and comfy.  Just replace the rims when they wear out.  Works out at a bit over £1,000 for the first pair of wheels and about £170/pair thereafter.

All bar the commuter (105) hydraulic discs) have rim brakes, which I far prefer for all except commuting (100 sets of traffic lights each way through London)

In reply to Bezz:

With regard to Carbon I bought a 6yo Cervello R5 off a mate 5 years ago and it had done about 40K miles then, I've done 35K miles on it since then and apart from a few cosmetics its still as good as new. I've also bought a Trek Emonda SLR about 2 years ago on Ebay (full receipts and history) for £1200 and I love it. Without going into to much detail I've set one bike up for spinning mileage and the other for more challenging rides. The geometry of the bikes are different and it taken me time and a lot of fiddling to get the Trek absolutely right (I had a bike fit for the R5). So there are top notch legit bikes (and they are worth it IMHO) around at decent prices. However it is worth getting a proper bike fit as well as getting a test ride to make sure you like what you are getting. 

In reply to Brass Nipples:

I'm not the heaviest user of bikes, but I have an old Raleigh Gemini XC Trail, a drop handle bar hybrid (like a gravel bike now), which is over 30 years old. I have a copy of it up north(Mother's House), which w straightened after being hit whilst on the back of my car, years ago. So 531 can to some extent be fixed.

In reply to veteye:

Well new tubes can be brazed in at reasonable cost, and a few places offer such a service. When it does fail it’s in a predictable manner with lots of signs beforehand.

In reply to Brass Nipples:

My stainless frame was bought to last a lifetime.  So when I got hit by a car it was all a bit sad.  One seat stay separated from the seat tube and the other had a kink in it.  General consensus was that it was not repairable, but I packed it off to Belgium, where it was made (and where they had the jigs and the tubes, and it came back many months later, all shiny and new-looking - most of the waiting was for paint. Not exactly a cheap repair, but seeing as I had a box full of all its Dura-ace bits it seemed worthwhile.  Also a devious N+1 .....

In reply to Bezz:

If you can, sit on the ones you fancy instore as you'll find the cockpit geometry varies, pick the one that suits you best.

In reply to Philb1950:

 Because the frames are shit and essentially made from pencil lead.

In reply to ianstevens:

I’ve never had a problem with either Planet X MTB,s or road bikes, or the rest of their kit. When Martin Atkinson was chairman of Planet X he reckoned the frames were made in the same Chinese factories as some of the more iconic marques and I’ve no reason to disbelieve him. But have it your way.

In reply to TobyA:

I dimly recall hearing some absolute horror stories about catastrophic failures of PlanetX carbon frames in situations where that shouldn't have occurred. Perhaps others will know more detail - I see there's been a few downvotes on the PlanetX recommendations. 

Also not sure whether this issue is still current, or consigned to history - I would just recommend carefully researching before going down this route. 

I’m no expert but wonder if planetx frame issues are a bit of an urban myth? I know a couple of guys in the club who trot this out but when pressed for detail they cannot supply it. Oth I know quite a few people with planetx bikes who have no issues with them.

In reply to ianstevens:

The Planet X (On-One) Free-Ranger is exactly the same frame as a Dolan GXC, Tifosi Cavazzo, Ridley Kanzo C, Vitus Substance + numerous smaller brands... 

Planet X and others like them sell cheap bikes because they are buying the raw frames off the shelf (probably at bulk for a couple of hundred dollars each), then painting them, fitting the components and selling them on. Unlike the likes of Trek, Specialized, Cannondale etc they are not involved in R&D, or paying for the tooling up for their frame manufacture (itself many $100k's). The off the shelf frames will almost certainly lag the leading brands by a few years as a result, but I think the gap in performance is narrowing.

Btw I have owned one Planet X (their Stealth TT bike), quite an old model - the manufacturing quality was fine, super quick but had to be polite an unrefined ride quality. Cadel Evans used it in the Tour one year apparently....

In reply to Richard Horn:

Do you know that to be 100% true? I'm not really doubting you, just wondering if that is industry insider knowledge - someone who knows the probably Taiwanese company that makes that frameset, or whether its "a bloke in my club whose cousin once worked for company X said..." type of knowledge. I knew that different companies bought the same basic frames, but I didn't realise that many bought exactly the same frame. An interesting business insight.  

I have just googled those models and stared at the pictures a bit - they do look very similar but then I've also concluded that all gravel/road bike frames made out of the same material look rather similar!

In reply to Bezz:

With £2k and your requirements, I would hold off until the end of year sales and pick up a reduced £3k model...

The Emonda will have more racey geometry than the others, but is the one I would probably go for out of your list. The Synapse/Domane are both well regarded endurance bikes. My father in law bought a Ribble Endurance SL and he doesnt like it as much as the ancient Trek Madone it replaced...

I have a Ridley Helium SLX (rim brake model from 2017) and I am constantly amazed how nice it is. You can get a Helium SL disc now for not much more than £2k, another one to try out?

In reply to TobyA: same moulds but different layups? This can make a massive difference to comfort and also manufacturing costs.

An important factor to consider is the number of frame sizes available and the increment between them to ensure an optimum fit. This is something Dolan score well on

In reply to TobyA:

All these models are Carbonda 696 open mould frames, this is well known - in fact you can order from China direct but it would be a faff (import duty etc) and no easy way to return if there is a problem. There is some debate online whether or not each company alters the carbon fibre spec but I find this doubtful (would cost a lot to employ people with the knowledge to do this vs still having a copy-cat looking frame at the end of the day). Some models come with BSA bottom bracket shells fitted, some without and rely on a press fit bottom bracket.

Btw I wouldnt have a problem buying one of these, they seem to be well regarded

In reply to Philb1950:

I've only ever had a problem with one frame - and it was a Planet X. Most flexible carbon bike I've ridden (not in a good way) and developed a crack in the top tube. Bin stuff for me.

As always on these threads: made in the same factory means nothing. It's not an allegory for same materials and manufacturing processes. 

In reply to Richard Horn:

Yeah I'm aware of how they work and how open mould frames are sold. 

I had an Exocet. Super flexible and cracked. Wasn't impressed and would avoid the brand for this reason,

In reply to TobyA:

https://factorbikes.com/factor-origins-part-three/#:~:text=After%20decades%....

Rob Gitelis (owner of Factor Bikes) owns his own carbon frame factory in Taiwan. He used to make frames for lots of big manufacturers. I was chatting to John Bailey (original Factor bikes owner) who was telling me that Rob often would find ways of improving frames, but the companies would just ignore him as they trusted their own r&D (fair enough) . Anyway, he decided to stop making other brands bikes and make his own - he bought Factor and now exclusively just makes his own bikes in house. I bought one and am very happy with it (an o2)... interestingly , unlike other brands, Factor frames evolve in between new model releases, because they can as have full autonomy. 

I believe only Giant are the other large manufacturer who own their own Asian factories. (could be wrong on that)

In reply to Max factor:had exactly the same experience and bought a Specialised after a full test ride where they were happy for me to be both off and on road.

In reply to Bezz: I am looking at a Giant TCR at a higher spec than £2000, but they do a TCR Advanced Disc 3 with Tiagra at £2099. 

In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

My mate has a Factor VAM, the top tube of which cracked when he clipped-in to the pedal. 

In reply to ianstevens:

I had a PlanetX as a hire bike once - think it was a Pro Carbon. It was scary at speed, as seemed to wobble all over the place. Might just have been that bike, though.

In reply to Yanis Nayu:

life time warranty means I expect he had that replaced no questions asked.

I over tightened the bolts on the handlebars, caused a hairline crack - replaced for free, two years after I bought the bike and telling them it was my fault.  

In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

He claimed off Laka; I guess in doing so put my bloody premium up…

In reply to LastBoyScout:

Yes, one of my club mates has got one and said it’s ok for sustained power cruising but it crap for sprinting and isn’t fast.