UKC

Anyone heard or experienced any rock types in the UK cutting through a new rope?

In reply to saturn:

Grit, there's a famous weekend whipper by Caminati or someone on elder's arête at curbar and his rope just gets shredded

In reply to saturn:

Yes. There are plenty of rocks that can cut a rope and this has happened.

In reply to saturn:

Have twice had semi-static ropes badly cut (with me on the end of them). The first time, the rope was about half cut through before I realised. 

Both times cut on chert bands on limestone, on the same crag.

Mick 

In reply to saturn:

Chert in limestone, flint in chalk, slate can get sharp edges, bands of volcanic tuff (locally called chert even if not geologically correct) in a couple of places in the Moelwynion (N Wales). Probably a lot more - these are just off the top of my head.

Edit: I had a rope half cut through on concrete that had crushed flint or something as aggregate, OK that not a real rock type, but it is the kind of silliness climbers can do sometimes.

In reply to CantClimbTom:

Obviously more likely with some rock types than others but I would think that just about any rock could do it in the right (wrong!) circumstances.

In reply to saturn:

There is a fairly exciting write up in the logbook of Orifice fish along these lines.

Orifice Fish (E4 5c)

In reply to saturn:  The Lewisian Gneiss is famous for this.  need to really protect rope well on the long abseils.   Crags such as Mingulay, Pabbay, Lewis sea cliffs, Sheigra.  & Yes we experienced some quite severe rope damage on the trips I’ve been on.

In reply to saturn:

Knew a guy who laid a brand new rope on the ground at the bottom of a crag straight from the original wrapping, and prepared to gear up. A rock came off from above and landed directly on the rope - it cut through it in a few places there and then.

1 rope trashed that had never even been tied onto !

In reply to saturn:

I had a new rope cut through to the core last December. The surprising thing was it was only about 1m up from the fixed belay during a lead rope solo. The rope was static held tight against the rock. It was Arran granite and I reckon there was a sharp crystal to blame. No edge near by that would of caused it. I switched to a unicore rope after this happened and a couple of rope protectors.

In reply to fred99:

I experienced that once. Taking a breather before embarking on the Petits Charmoz, two ropes bought the previous day in Snells. A couple of rocks fell straight onto them, writing them both off. Glad they weren't mine.

In reply to saturn:

I saw a bloke whip off Cool for Cats in Pembroke. I think a hold broke on him. His rope somehow wrapped around a natural spike and cut the outer sheath. He came to a stop. Then we all pointed out that he was hanging on the white core strands. A good 5 meters of them were exposed. He then placed a bomber runner where he was and lowered off the other rope. It could have been a bad one because when we looked at where his last placement was on the other rope, it was a long way below.

In reply to saturn:

It doesn't need to be sharp to cut; sideways abrasion will do it, or a rock that falls and cuts the rope (as sadly happened at Blacknor about 15 years ago).

I think the UIAA cut test is done over a 90 degree angle

In reply to saturn:

Yes. I’ve had it happen to me three times in the UK. Slate on a year old rope, Microgranite on a brand new Beal Opera and Gneiss with a new 10.5mm static. 

In reply to the thread:

Is saturn actually a bit of a Uranus? 

In reply to fmck:

Does a unicore rope really offer any advantage over conventional ropes in the scenarios discussed in this thread? My understanding was the main advantage of bonding the sheath to the core was to prevent the climber dropping to the end of the rope in a jumarring situation if the sheath was damaged. I don't see how a unicore rope would have saved Caminati for example. See video link below.

https://youtu.be/jDl2hiBypYA?feature=shared

In reply to saturn:

I challenge anyone to find a rock type that is climbable and cannot ever cut through a rope in the right circumstances.

In reply to JMAB:

Southern Sandstone? I think you'd have to be doing something very wrong to cut right through a rope on that.

Some may disagree with describing it as "climbable" though. 🙂

In reply to nikoid:

Thanks for the confidence boost!

In reply to nikoid:

To expand I don't know really. I asked the question on a LRS forum and got a Yosemite big wall climber recommend the Beal rope I use now. Kind of thought they were the guys in the know and this guy in particular came across as very experienced.

I was using a single edelweiss from go outdoors that was pretty stupid really ad it was cheap. I keep this for outcrop climbing only now. Feels quite soft and easily manageable but not very hard wearing as it turns out.

The Beal feels sturdy but not as easily manageable but careful rope management seems to work. I've used it on 2 LRS winter ascents on Arran and 2 Arran rock multi pitch slab climbs so far. Its incredibly hard wearing on ropes Arran granite slabs but it still looks minted.

So really time will tell but It does appear to be hard wearing but in a cut scenario I hope not to find out!

In reply to fmck:

Good reply. For what it's worth I am using unicore ropes at the moment and they seem pretty hard wearing and handle well.

However I think some people have concluded that unicore construction offers improved cut resistance and I'm not sure if Beal specifically make that claim.

In reply to saturn:

New rope: no. Perfectly serviceable rope: yes.

Slate will cut it like butter. Most rock types will in the right wrong circumstances.

jk

In reply to jkarran:

Like the original abseil for Mercury (E2 5b) at Carn Gowla for instance.

In reply to saturn:

Slate can *very* easily slice though rope. I lost one of my Mammut Genesis 60s to it. I had taken it out of its packaging that morning, did Horse Latitudes (6a+) as a warmup, pulled the rope down and it lasoed a small flake to the left of the climb. When I pulled and freed the rope, it had cut cleanly through the sheath a few metres from the mid rope marker. As in, core pulled out and everything.

Interesting to think that it did that without a real load on the rope, you can only imagine what it would have done with someone’s weight on it.

In reply to saturn:

Bit of a strange question, there’s pretty much every rock type available present somewhere in the U.K., and of course something hard can cut through something soft. 
 

To add to the noise, I’ve seen a 70m ground fall when 2 ropes were both severed close to the climbers harness from a rock fall as he was mantelling off route in the Avon Gorge. 
 

(He miraculously survived but lost his legs and is in a wheelchair) 

In reply to saturn:

Yes, many times. It's why cavers re-hang at any point where the rope touches, or almost touches, the side of a pitch, however smooth the rock may appear to be.