UKC

Swedish stove manufacturer Primus has commissioned a study by Strong Roots Training into the most common mistakes made when using an outdoor stove.  The research will form the basis of the Primus Stove Demos that will take place at the Telegraph Outdoor and Adventure Travel show on the Primus stand on the 12th – 15th February.

Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/news.php?id=7076

In reply to UKC Gear:

Come on, that is a crap "study". Don't get me wrong, I have two stoves from that manufacturer.

In reply to Sir Stefan:

Clearly. Any study worth its salt would have had at number 1, 'forgetting it'.

And then number 2, 'going to a country where they don't sell those gas canisters'.

In reply to Martin not maisie:

"Refilling a meth’s stove prior to it being extinguished"

No.3 - using a greengrocer's apostrophe

In reply to Nic:

Given it is an abbreviation of 'methylated spirits' are you absolutely sure the apostrophe is incorrect? 500 words, please. By Wednesday morning.

In reply to Martin not maisie:

3, Cooking in the porch and knocking it over

In reply to UKC Gear:

It would be interesting to have an equivalent study on 5 most common dangers arising from design/manufacturing flaws. I've recently had two (cheap!) stoves present leaks through the medium of flames where they weren't supposed to be. Potentially lethal.

In reply to Martin not maisie:

My 5 in no real order.

Packing the stove but forgetting the pans. (Venture Scouts - we did give them pans - eventually)

Packing the stove and pans but forgetting lighter or matches. Curse the government anti smoking nanny state when you can't find a single yoof with a lighter cause they all have been bribed with patches innit. (D of E group - not mine)

Burning whatever it was you were attempting to cook after a few too many beers. Me on many occasions.

Swearing at the gas stove when its -10 and its taking too long to make a brew. Wishing you brought a different stove. Make sure no Scout are watching as you preheat the canister very carefully. Me.

Swearing at the petrol stove because something has gone wrong with the f ing pump again and its p*ssing petrol everywhere. Realise that your service kit is elsewhere. Me. Demonstrating different stove types, sadly the petrol stove was not to be.

In reply to Andy Say:

Not good. Name and shame time?

In reply to Nic:
Back on topic anyone using trangias with yoofs should use a 2 burner system to prevent idiot refilling errors.

Also wise not to use 5 litre containers.

Horrendous accident entirely preventable.

Anyone involved in d of e etc please read this.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/press/2013/rnn-ldn-02113.htm

In reply to marsbar:







Ok so maybe they should have had the correct bottles (the ones with the auto closing sprung caps are best IMO) but surely at some point in the training they would have had they would have been instructed always make sure the burner was out before refilling and this person just didn't follow instruction.

I'm not too sure how your 2 burner system would be practical. If the burner has burnt out the whole system will be hot and so removing the burner and replacing with a new one is going to be the devils job and the ideal way to burn yourself. Unless you are suggesting they should take 2 full stoves and only cook on one at a time which would be crazy as trangias are ridiculously heavy.

In reply to gethin_allen:
That’s a sad story, but I believe the biggest mistake was not realising that the flame was out, probably because meths burns with a fairly colourless flame. I used to regularly refill a burning meths stove without any problems. It may flare a little and even light the vapours at the bottle cap which was easily controlled and no problem if some away from a tent or other flammable material. Of course I couldn’t recommend it.

Now I prefer the convenience and soot free gas stoves for summer and the noise and drama of petrol stoves for winter. They’re the bad boys that need real care in handling the fuel.


Edited to add that I’d only top up from metal bottle, the consequences of using plastic one would be horrendous.

In reply to gethin_allen:

I think that anyone providing kids with 5 litre plastic bottles of meths to use can be assumed to not have a clue about training them. As far as I remember from the time it was not felt that the girls hadn't followed instructions, more that they weren't given any.

As for changing the burner it is a faff. I'm not a great fan of meths cookers anyway. If people must use trangias with youth groups I would suggest gas ones. Or use the gel.

In reply to UKC Gear:

first time I used my primus gas stove the plastic cover on the piezo ignition thingy melted so it stopped working! Still cant work out if it was design flaw or user error, but the rest is fine

In reply to marsbar:


How about idiot errors like filling the kettle with meths (actually colourless alcool a bruler), followed by boiling the kettle inside the flysheet and then making tea with it?

Makes the tea a funny colour and it does curdle the milk. The real error was using similar Sigg bottles for water and meths, and refreshment had been taken the night before. Still, I reckon it shows that Trangias are safer than you think!

In reply to Andy Say:


Yes.

Other than when used for the possessive (eg "Andy's posting") an apostrophe stands in for a missing letter, usually a vowel. For example, in "don't" it replaces the missing/elided "o" of "not". In the much misused "it's" it stands in for the missing "i" of "is" (which is precisely why "it's" as a possessive makes no sense whatsoever).

A single apostrophe is not used to indicate an abbreviation - that's one of the jobs of a full stop (though it's often omitted).

A construction you sometimes come across these days, especially in IT circles, is the <initial letter>-<number of characters in between>-<final letter> form, to indicate a long word. For example, "i18n" as a short form for "internationalisation". Using that method, "methylated spirits" might be expressed as "m16s" - noting that that would include counting the space as a character.

It could also be debated whether "meths" is an abbreviation, a contraction or even a diminutive. Whatever the outcome of that debate, though, "meth's" would never be correct.


Not even 200 words I'm afraid - but then I bet you didn't read it all anyway.

In reply to Andy Say:

It is incorrect

It is incorrect.

In reply to marsbar:

>

This was me in Patagonia on a 3 day walk. Pays to test the fuel you buy from the Argie service station before you set off. Not quite as bad as the mate who had dodgy fuel on a one month trip to Antarctica.

In reply to UKC Gear:

Bloody hell, do people really still buy Trangia stoves?
I prefer a cup of tea when I want one, not an hour after.
These are awesome:
http://www.cascadedesigns.com/ie/msr/stoves/simple-cooking/whisperlite-inte...
I've had mine for 20 years and it's never let me down.
Si.

In reply to marsbar:




This is one of the reasons why trangias are sh*t

In reply to Morgan Woods:


That's harsh, they are are perfectly safe used correctly and, as I illustrated, quite often if they aren't. They are also pretty efficient, pack into the volume of billies you need anyway and run on fuel that is easily obtained almost anywhere.

In reply to Martin W:

Now how about a short essay on why Meths are worse than Hitler to complete the duo of internet forum clichés?

In reply to Dave Garnett:

But also take ages to boil a bit of water. You can die of dehydration before your brew's ready

In reply to simes303:

These are awesome:


That isn't a stove, this is a stove: -

youtube.com/watch?v=kBaVaS0jsbM&

Comes with a metal casing to contain/direct the flames. However, normally put in a trench for safety reasons!

In reply to UKC Gear:

Slightly off topic but - I was leading an advance party setting up summer camp for a well known public school scout group. I had prepared breakfast for the sixth form leaders and we were lingering over our coffee. A simmering top up pan was getting low so I topped it up with "water". What happened next was like something out of Apocalypse Now, with lots of hissing and spluttering, a big whooosh,followed by rolling banks of flame filling the mess tent. It turned out that one of the very bright sixth formers had decided to bring a gallon of acetate in case of need for canoe repairs,but had put it in a water container ! Don't worry,he is probably helping run the country now. PS to add to the entertainment, it proved an effective if not recommended way of showing a four foot high propane bottle had not been fully nipped up at the regulator !

In reply to UKC Gear:

I've had the Trangia induced scorched eyebrows from filling whilst hot (not lit). The hot stove just causes the new meths to vapourise a bit which then goes off when the match is lit.

Worst one, though was with my old favorite Coleman Alpine gas burner (the one with three fold out legs and a tube to the gas bottle. They are pretty hairy if you accidentally melt the hose !

In reply to UKC Gear:

For ages I used "Essence C" in my coleman fuel stove, available for cheap in French ironmongers, worked a treat. I then got some "Essence F" (by mistake), filled up and lit the stove ... After a surprisingly short period the preheat tube was glowing cherry red and the whole thing was making a noise like an F-16 on full reheat. I managed to turn the tap offand the following day drained the stuff out of the stove, which was shedding carbonised bits when I turned it upside down. I did try the stove again this summer back on Essence C and it doesn't seem to have taken any lasting harm. Definitely a well engineered bit of kit.

In reply to Andy Hardy:

Not turning the gas fully tap fully off and allowing snow hole to fill with gas, runny nose kills all sense of smell. After an hour or so deciding to put on a brew, strike match and set fire to snow hole and your clothing, sleeping bags and other flamable stuff including your eyebrows.

In reply to Martin W:

Meth'd though, that would work, but a little old fashioned.

In reply to marsbar:
Name and shame time?

Maybe not

BUT it might be worth regularly checking the connection to the burner unit and to the control valve when using flexible hose type stoves.

I had one stove leak gas from the hose/burner connection when the stove was turned down to simmer. I only noticed when with a quiet little 'whoomph' the stove went out and flames started coming out of the connection at ground level. The other stove had a fairly stiff hose and I suspect that the repeated jiggling around to get the burner to sit flat had helped unscrew the hose/valve connection. No whooomph this time - but I thought I could smell gas and checked with a lighter. In open air and at arm's length I hasten to add. And again I got a flame where no flame should be.

Lesson learned. I regularly check my stoves over now.

In reply to Andy Say:

I had the same, couldn't hear the hiss from the regulator on the gas caister but one minute I'm making a brew, the next the stove, hose and canister and engulfed in flame.

In reply to Dave Garnett:

Sounds unpleasant. I like a little something in my coffee now and again, but meths in tea. Ewwww.

In reply to GrahamD:

I still have and use my Coleman alpine. I haven't managed to melt the hose.

In reply to Morgan Woods:

Personally I don't like my food to smell of meths and I am generally on my 3rd cuppa bu the time trangia users have got the water warm. I'm not the biggest trangia fan, but I do think that you can't blame the stove for such a stupid breach of safety instructions. They are safe when used sensibly. Using a 5 litre plastic bottle was beyond stupid. Someone paid by a school to run d of e should know that. I have only ever volunteered to help d of e and scouts and I know that.

In reply to marsbar:

I love the Alpine Stove. I got another one after I knackered the first one.

In reply to GrahamD:

Its the one I pick most of the time. I haven't seen anything more recent that has made me think I should update it.