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It goes without saying that 06/07 has been a very poor climbing and skiing season in the Cairngorms. Climate change is just one of the big challenges facing the newly formed Cairngorms National Park.
The local economy has a heavy reliance on tourism and local businesses are coming up with new ideas...
Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/
The local economy has a heavy reliance on tourism and local businesses are coming up with new ideas...
Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/
In reply to Andy Hyslop - UKClimbing.com:
Aviemore seems to be in direct competition with Fort William to be the Outdoor Capital of Scotland (the UK ?).
Lochaber stole a march on Aviemore with the cycling on Aonach Mor which seems to be a success. Why not develop another venue and try to establish a circuit in Scotland ?
Why not develop an indoor snow sports venue of their own along the lines of the Ice Factor and Xscape at Braehead ? Given the unreliability of conditions in winter in Scotland and the all round popularity of winter sports I think we could sustain them. We couldnt get a single booking one Thursday in February in the Ice Factor. Its a prime example of excellence.
Is Glenmore being utilised to its maximum potential for the benefit of the area ? Is it too inward-looking and 'specialist' ? Its great to have a recognised centre of excellence but could it be more ?
Is the idea of the two areas combining resources to create an Outdoor Executive idealist / impractical ? Create a co-ordinated , joined-up approach ? We're not great at that in the UK. Would it just be a talking shop ? Has the National Park brought real benefits ? Should it be reveiwed ?
Personally, both FW and Aviemore can be a little dismal to visit, lacking character and attractiveness. If I didnt have a strong reason to go there (the excellent walking and mountaineering oppotunities) would I really go ? How are they going to attract those who dont share that interest ?
FW wins de facto with Ben Nevis, which will always bring loads of tourists. And the WH Way, too. Could Aviemore develop a route of equivalent status ? Does the Speyside way measure up ? A Central Highlands Way going thru Glen Nevis, by Loch Ossian, over the Bealach Dubh, out by Loch Ericht, round Meall Chuaich and down to the Ruthven barracks ?
And a National Trekking Centre based on Glens Tromie and Feshie and Geldie and Tilt and Avon and the Lairigs Ghru and an Loaoigh ? A formal hut network, in conjunction with the SYHA or MBA ?
These are just ideas, both general and more detailed to provoke a debate, either here or in Aviemore circles. I'm not saying I'm necessarily pro or anti.
ahunter
Aviemore seems to be in direct competition with Fort William to be the Outdoor Capital of Scotland (the UK ?).
Lochaber stole a march on Aviemore with the cycling on Aonach Mor which seems to be a success. Why not develop another venue and try to establish a circuit in Scotland ?
Why not develop an indoor snow sports venue of their own along the lines of the Ice Factor and Xscape at Braehead ? Given the unreliability of conditions in winter in Scotland and the all round popularity of winter sports I think we could sustain them. We couldnt get a single booking one Thursday in February in the Ice Factor. Its a prime example of excellence.
Is Glenmore being utilised to its maximum potential for the benefit of the area ? Is it too inward-looking and 'specialist' ? Its great to have a recognised centre of excellence but could it be more ?
Is the idea of the two areas combining resources to create an Outdoor Executive idealist / impractical ? Create a co-ordinated , joined-up approach ? We're not great at that in the UK. Would it just be a talking shop ? Has the National Park brought real benefits ? Should it be reveiwed ?
Personally, both FW and Aviemore can be a little dismal to visit, lacking character and attractiveness. If I didnt have a strong reason to go there (the excellent walking and mountaineering oppotunities) would I really go ? How are they going to attract those who dont share that interest ?
FW wins de facto with Ben Nevis, which will always bring loads of tourists. And the WH Way, too. Could Aviemore develop a route of equivalent status ? Does the Speyside way measure up ? A Central Highlands Way going thru Glen Nevis, by Loch Ossian, over the Bealach Dubh, out by Loch Ericht, round Meall Chuaich and down to the Ruthven barracks ?
And a National Trekking Centre based on Glens Tromie and Feshie and Geldie and Tilt and Avon and the Lairigs Ghru and an Loaoigh ? A formal hut network, in conjunction with the SYHA or MBA ?
These are just ideas, both general and more detailed to provoke a debate, either here or in Aviemore circles. I'm not saying I'm necessarily pro or anti.
ahunter
In reply to Andy Hyslop - UKClimbing.com: There is the Outsider festival coming up soon as well, combined with run and bike race.
Glenshee have made the bold step of putting in mountain biking trails in order to genereate some revenue in the summer, maybe Cairngorm should follow suit? The funicular runs all summer anyway.
Glenshee have made the bold step of putting in mountain biking trails in order to genereate some revenue in the summer, maybe Cairngorm should follow suit? The funicular runs all summer anyway.
In reply to Andy Hyslop - UKClimbing.com:
>"When the marketing of Badenoch and Strathspey under the 'Extreme Capital and the Outdoor Capital' banner was raised at a meeting of Aviemore and the Cairngorms Mangement Group, it was swept aside in favour of golf and the softly, softly, touchy feely approach to the outdoors.
........
Extreme sport is not necessarily about jumping out of planes, pulling big air on the slopes of Cairngorm or going all out or not at all. Extreme is actually at the other end of the spectrum. It's about giving people new experiences – something otherwise unachievable and personally extraordinary.
.....
The area needs more exciting businesses and attractions that give no doubt to our claim as the extreme capital of Britain with the best professional adventure providers around.
......
Extreme Dream and G2 have decided to take the step to help secure the future of this area by adding the strap 'Extreme Capital of the UK' to all advertising material before this title and claim is lost as well." - Quoted from Scott Muir's letter to the local paper.
I hope that the idea to start referring to Aviemore as 'Extreme Capital of the UK' is opposed. The only thing extreme about Aviemore is the poor town planning and architecture.
As a keen participant in walking, climbing (and occasionally snowboarding) I find the term 'Extreme' extremely embarrassing.
I applaud Scott Muir's attempts to improve the tourist economy of the area. Howver, I hope that this can be done without resorting to MTV style re- branding of the Cairngorms.
Davie
>"When the marketing of Badenoch and Strathspey under the 'Extreme Capital and the Outdoor Capital' banner was raised at a meeting of Aviemore and the Cairngorms Mangement Group, it was swept aside in favour of golf and the softly, softly, touchy feely approach to the outdoors.
........
Extreme sport is not necessarily about jumping out of planes, pulling big air on the slopes of Cairngorm or going all out or not at all. Extreme is actually at the other end of the spectrum. It's about giving people new experiences – something otherwise unachievable and personally extraordinary.
.....
The area needs more exciting businesses and attractions that give no doubt to our claim as the extreme capital of Britain with the best professional adventure providers around.
......
Extreme Dream and G2 have decided to take the step to help secure the future of this area by adding the strap 'Extreme Capital of the UK' to all advertising material before this title and claim is lost as well." - Quoted from Scott Muir's letter to the local paper.
I hope that the idea to start referring to Aviemore as 'Extreme Capital of the UK' is opposed. The only thing extreme about Aviemore is the poor town planning and architecture.
As a keen participant in walking, climbing (and occasionally snowboarding) I find the term 'Extreme' extremely embarrassing.
I applaud Scott Muir's attempts to improve the tourist economy of the area. Howver, I hope that this can be done without resorting to MTV style re- branding of the Cairngorms.
Davie
Mountain biking has really taken off where ever it has been organised in Scotland. The uplift system on Anoch Mor envied throughout the country. Trouble is the Cairngorms, being a National Park are not really suited for down hilling and the mess involved. Plenty of other sites but its the lift system that makes Anoch Mor outstanding. Motor sport also needs more venues and there is planty of space but I doubt that would go down well.
In reply to mattsccm:
What about setting up some down hill tracks closely equating to the winter pistes? The whole place looks shocking in the summer anyay so surely there wouldn't be too many conservation issues.
What about setting up some down hill tracks closely equating to the winter pistes? The whole place looks shocking in the summer anyay so surely there wouldn't be too many conservation issues.
In reply to Wibble Wibble: Echoing other sentiments above, the Cairngorms is one of the few places in Scotland that hasnt witnessed the recent development of mountain biking in places like Laggan, Golsbie, etc etc yet it has some amazing trails. I would 100% advocate a downhill mountain bike course or two down from Cairngorm, building on the Funicular. Get the guys behing Golsbie to build a few lines which dont mess with the skiing, it would be fantastic.
In reply to Barber Baz:
I doubt very much that the go ahead would be given for a downhill track in Coire Cas. The area is too politically sensitive after the Funicular rows. It might attract business as you say, but would be heavily opposed by environmentalists. I would certainly oppose it. There are better places to build downhill tracks- Forestry Commision land being far more preferable.
Davie
I doubt very much that the go ahead would be given for a downhill track in Coire Cas. The area is too politically sensitive after the Funicular rows. It might attract business as you say, but would be heavily opposed by environmentalists. I would certainly oppose it. There are better places to build downhill tracks- Forestry Commision land being far more preferable.
Davie
In reply to Barber Baz:
And there could be some really good long distance cross country routes in the Spey valley - miles and miles of 'em. Maybe there is, but it isn't promoted.
And there could be some really good long distance cross country routes in the Spey valley - miles and miles of 'em. Maybe there is, but it isn't promoted.
In reply to Andy Hyslop - UKClimbing.com: What about making a big deal about the potential for Paragliding? Its fairly non intrusive to the environment, and I'd imagine the area would have a lot to offer. I'm not an expert in this sport I hasten to add, although it is something i want to try.
In reply to drunken monkey:
Too windy?
> (In reply to Andy Hyslop - UKClimbing.com) What about making a big deal about the potential for Paragliding?
Too windy?
In reply to Wibble Wibble: Not all the time surely. Trust me, I know its a windy place, but I've seen people up there paragliding before. Do you not need at least 15knots wind to make it worthwhile anyway?
In reply to Wee Davie: fair play, im with you, its just a great opportunity to use existing infrastructure..and it would be one hell of a ride. Perhaps there could be more marketing about existing trails in the area.
A Hunter: great idea you have of building an indoor ice venue... you even have the audacity to include the word 'sustainable' in the same paragrpah
Let's all combat the possible effects of global warming by building huge refrigerators that lead to more energy useage purely for our fun. The existance of fake ice/ snow monstrosities should be severely questioned.
Let's all combat the possible effects of global warming by building huge refrigerators that lead to more energy useage purely for our fun. The existance of fake ice/ snow monstrosities should be severely questioned.
In reply to urban warrior: thats a good point about the environmental impact. could they be made more self-sustaining from an energy use point of view by generating their own power, say by wind turbines ?
if there was a(nother) good snow sports venue here might fewer people opt to go on cheap flights to norway and the alps to get their sport done there, thus reducing the environmental impact of all these flights ?
i amnt an expert so cant do the environmental sums, i'm sure you're better placed than me, i am just putting up ideas to stimulate debate. please knock them down if theyre guff !
ahunter
if there was a(nother) good snow sports venue here might fewer people opt to go on cheap flights to norway and the alps to get their sport done there, thus reducing the environmental impact of all these flights ?
i amnt an expert so cant do the environmental sums, i'm sure you're better placed than me, i am just putting up ideas to stimulate debate. please knock them down if theyre guff !
ahunter
In reply to andy hunter: So cover the corries with wind turbines to generate electricity to freeze a giant indoor ice climbing venue. Genius.
In reply to Andy Hyslop - UKClimbing.com:
They *probably * could be made more sustainable. But I personally just can't see a need for them. I can't see that they stop people going to Norway for climbing or the alps for ski ing or wahtever, in fact they probably promote it by getting people more interested.
If the environment isn't suitable for whatever, why change it?
They *probably * could be made more sustainable. But I personally just can't see a need for them. I can't see that they stop people going to Norway for climbing or the alps for ski ing or wahtever, in fact they probably promote it by getting people more interested.
If the environment isn't suitable for whatever, why change it?
In reply to Chris F: in the light of the current debate about wind turbines in scotland, my tongue was slightly in my cheek chris.
i dont favour the largescale turbine sites. but i do think much more could be done to explore local small scale turbines though. but a small scale set up wouldnt support a snowsports venue.
ahunter
i dont favour the largescale turbine sites. but i do think much more could be done to explore local small scale turbines though. but a small scale set up wouldnt support a snowsports venue.
ahunter
In reply to andy hunter: Divvent sweat loon, mine was too.
In reply to Wee Davie:
Well the way things are going Aviemore is going to lose out to a hell of a lot of income if it is portrayed as the EXTREME sports capital full of high YOUNG DUDES!
I can't see the bus loads of pensioners and early retired southerners being endeared with the idea or the Americans and Europeans looking for pristine natural scenery flocking in there hordes to drytool in an Aviemore quarry and listen to loud music....! See http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=242620
On a more serious note the area has lost out to Fort William with regard to mountain sport with the Fort William mountain festival etc. Furthermore the tourist board and destination management organisation are not really interested in mountain sport unless it's filling up the bed-spaces in MacDonald hotels or getting HIE grants and activity providers to pay for their trips abroad.
While I sympathise with SOME of Scott's views EXTREME is not the way to go. NATURAL, ADVENTURE yes but not EXTREME or WILD...please!!!!
Cheers Ron
Well the way things are going Aviemore is going to lose out to a hell of a lot of income if it is portrayed as the EXTREME sports capital full of high YOUNG DUDES!
I can't see the bus loads of pensioners and early retired southerners being endeared with the idea or the Americans and Europeans looking for pristine natural scenery flocking in there hordes to drytool in an Aviemore quarry and listen to loud music....! See http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=242620
On a more serious note the area has lost out to Fort William with regard to mountain sport with the Fort William mountain festival etc. Furthermore the tourist board and destination management organisation are not really interested in mountain sport unless it's filling up the bed-spaces in MacDonald hotels or getting HIE grants and activity providers to pay for their trips abroad.
While I sympathise with SOME of Scott's views EXTREME is not the way to go. NATURAL, ADVENTURE yes but not EXTREME or WILD...please!!!!
Cheers Ron
In reply to Wee Davie: i have to disagree about the downhill Mountain Bike track on Cairngorm, the funicular is perfect for this job and MB tracks can be built sensitively, not much difference to a human built mountain footpath and certainly better than the allready insitu bulldozer track. Cairngorm should embrace this rapidly growing sport as Glenshee, glencoe and aonach Mor have done.
I agree about the Extreme capital thing though, absolute pile of mince, just as the highly ironic Outdoor Capital brand is.
Folk like snowboarders and mountain bikers dont like the big branding thing, they prefer the sub-culture involved in these sports
I agree about the Extreme capital thing though, absolute pile of mince, just as the highly ironic Outdoor Capital brand is.
Folk like snowboarders and mountain bikers dont like the big branding thing, they prefer the sub-culture involved in these sports
In reply to Erik B: When I was in Saas Grund last year, we came down from the halfway 'frique station down the piste on "monster scoots": as it says on the tin, giant scooters with off road tyres and disc brakes. Absolutely fantastic. Now if I can only find an importer, and persuade the ski centre to flatten the access piste....
In reply to dmhigg:
About 10 years ago they had that in Chamonix below Bosson Glacier...
Anyway fiends payed for it in more ways than one...!
They no longer do it...!
With regard to an earlier post re paracending. Cairngorm did actually think about it quite seriously... On the demo the European expert was kiled by a gust of wind by being blown into the Coire Cas cliffs...!!!
Please correct me if I am wrong!
Ron
About 10 years ago they had that in Chamonix below Bosson Glacier...
Anyway fiends payed for it in more ways than one...!
They no longer do it...!
With regard to an earlier post re paracending. Cairngorm did actually think about it quite seriously... On the demo the European expert was kiled by a gust of wind by being blown into the Coire Cas cliffs...!!!
Please correct me if I am wrong!
Ron
In reply to Andy Hyslop - UKClimbing.com:
Why is this thread in the "Rock Destinations" forum? Indeed, the point that Aviemore isn't a destination for anything in particular appears to be the main topic.
Surely it should it should be in "Down the Pub" or maybe 'Winter Climbing"?
Why is this thread in the "Rock Destinations" forum? Indeed, the point that Aviemore isn't a destination for anything in particular appears to be the main topic.
Surely it should it should be in "Down the Pub" or maybe 'Winter Climbing"?
In reply to Ron Walker: "Anyway fiends payed for it in more ways than one...! " Sorry, Ron. After a couple of hours' musing I have no idea what this means! I do remember the luge that used to be the shortcut for the last bit of the walk down from Montenvers. Ahhh, Snell's field, weekly showers at the swimming pool, jumpers for goalposts..(collapses in rosy pit of nostalgia)
In reply to dmhigg:
Yeah, I rember (did) all that too. Nostalgia also, particularly having just got back from the pub.
I’ll try to put a few coherent thought of my own together tomorrow re: Extreme sports and the National Park.
Andy
> I do remember the luge that used to be the shortcut for the last bit of the walk down from Montenvers. Ahhh, Snell's field, weekly showers at the swimming pool, jumpers for goalposts..(collapses in rosy pit of nostalgia)
Yeah, I rember (did) all that too. Nostalgia also, particularly having just got back from the pub.
I’ll try to put a few coherent thought of my own together tomorrow re: Extreme sports and the National Park.
Andy
In reply to urban warrior:
Speaking as the manager of a 'fake ice/snow monstrosity' I can say that we arent blind to the amount of energy we use. We investigated getting our electricity direct from the enormous turbines 200m away (Alcan's Hydro power left over from the Aluminium smelting). These produce 'waste' energy at some times of the day as it cant be stored efficiently and the infrastructure doesnt exist to transport the power to where it might be usable 24 hours a day. We were told it would be too much hassle
We have made the insulation as efficient as possible to minimize the power used to chill the fridges.
We are now going through our third consultation scheme to try to find ways to save energy at the centre (including looking for ways we can use the small amount of heat generated when we have the chillers on.
We only turn the chillers on for part of the day (usually from 10 at night until 8 in the morning).
Whilst not perfect we are making an effort, we may even end up with a small scale wind turbine on our roof!
I know that our electricity bill is now smaller than at least 2 other Scottish climbing centres - should we shut them down too? And then lets go for Blackpool, Alton Towers, Disneyland and of course Wembley - electricity guzzling pleasure palaces the lot of them!
In terms of global warming we probably arent even a drop in the ocean compared to the effects of large scale industry in India, China, the USA, etc?
Al
> Let's all combat the possible effects of global warming by building huge refrigerators that lead to more energy useage purely for our fun. The existance of fake ice/ snow monstrosities should be severely questioned.
Speaking as the manager of a 'fake ice/snow monstrosity' I can say that we arent blind to the amount of energy we use. We investigated getting our electricity direct from the enormous turbines 200m away (Alcan's Hydro power left over from the Aluminium smelting). These produce 'waste' energy at some times of the day as it cant be stored efficiently and the infrastructure doesnt exist to transport the power to where it might be usable 24 hours a day. We were told it would be too much hassle
We have made the insulation as efficient as possible to minimize the power used to chill the fridges.
We are now going through our third consultation scheme to try to find ways to save energy at the centre (including looking for ways we can use the small amount of heat generated when we have the chillers on.
We only turn the chillers on for part of the day (usually from 10 at night until 8 in the morning).
Whilst not perfect we are making an effort, we may even end up with a small scale wind turbine on our roof!
I know that our electricity bill is now smaller than at least 2 other Scottish climbing centres - should we shut them down too? And then lets go for Blackpool, Alton Towers, Disneyland and of course Wembley - electricity guzzling pleasure palaces the lot of them!
In terms of global warming we probably arent even a drop in the ocean compared to the effects of large scale industry in India, China, the USA, etc?
Al
In reply to Erik B:
As far as I understand it (not an expert, but listening to those that are) those three venues have soils that support far less prone to erosion & serious lasting damage than the very poorly vegetated and consolidated gravel soils of the northern corries. Just think of how different the upper slopes of Aonach Mor and Cairngorm are in terms of vegetation.
Completely agree that Speyside could and should have MTB venues but just not sure that slopes of the actual cairngorm plateau are the place.
> Cairngorm should embrace this rapidly growing sport as Glenshee, glencoe and aonach Mor have done.
As far as I understand it (not an expert, but listening to those that are) those three venues have soils that support far less prone to erosion & serious lasting damage than the very poorly vegetated and consolidated gravel soils of the northern corries. Just think of how different the upper slopes of Aonach Mor and Cairngorm are in terms of vegetation.
Completely agree that Speyside could and should have MTB venues but just not sure that slopes of the actual cairngorm plateau are the place.
In reply to Not Remotely Foz:
In the high plateau the thin soil and vegetation is very fragile and much of the plant life takes decades if not centuaries to establish itself so mountain bikes are a no no...!
Lower down no real problem...
Cheers Ron
In the high plateau the thin soil and vegetation is very fragile and much of the plant life takes decades if not centuaries to establish itself so mountain bikes are a no no...!
Lower down no real problem...
Cheers Ron
In reply to Ron Walker: When the whole funicular question was "open", I was a severe anti. It's there now, it's not going away, and should be used. A mountain bike track down the hill could not possibly make the ski centre area any worse, and although it pains me to say it, they've done a fantastic job on the first(?)few of the paths down there; I would trust them to continue. I wish they'd stop making the path from the Ptarmigan to the summit easier, though.
In reply to Andy Hyslop - UKClimbing.com:
We used to go to Aviemore a lot, but then we stopped. The main reason wasn't so much the climbing or skiing, although that played a part. It was that there used to be things for the whole family to do. Santa Claus Land, pony rides, ice skating all sorts if things. Now the only one left is the reindeer trek. The rest of the place has a sort of "in decline" aura about it.
If more things for kids were back on offer we'd go there again.
We used to go to Aviemore a lot, but then we stopped. The main reason wasn't so much the climbing or skiing, although that played a part. It was that there used to be things for the whole family to do. Santa Claus Land, pony rides, ice skating all sorts if things. Now the only one left is the reindeer trek. The rest of the place has a sort of "in decline" aura about it.
If more things for kids were back on offer we'd go there again.
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