UKC

Currently Leonidio exists in the logbooks as 5 crags, pretty much per the Panjika guide.

• No match for crag id:28421

In my opinion it makes sense to split these areas in to their individual crags as the areas are pretty large and don't share a lot of info e.g. approaches are different for the majority of crags within an area, particularly A which covers ~35 separate crags over an area of ~40 km sq.

It's a fairly large change though so keen to get feedback before cracking on.

Seems pretty unanimous, but giving this a quick nudge in case there's any last minute dissenters.

As I recall the original argument for using the very coarse divisions was that the named sectors in the guidebook are too fine-grained. Might make sense to keep everything that uses the same approach together - e.g. Orama / Rocspot / Douvari, and the multipitch stuff that starts in that general area, are all right next to each other on the same wall. Not much point listing them as separate crags.

Interesting point. Agree on keeping the multipitch stuff at the same crag, but I could see an argument for having multiple small crags even where there's cross over in approach details as I could imagine people getting confused when searching for crags via google. For example, the approach for King of Thrones and Dornroschen are pretty much identical but are separate crags in the guide, so if they were in UKC as a single crag it might be confusing to search for. Maybe if the crag was called 'King of Thrones and Dornroschen'?

We do combined crags in rockfax guides like this Remus. Works well.

I voted for the split and I'm happy to moderate a few crags there to spread the load.

Heading out in a couple of weeks!

I disagree that it works well - I'm thinking particularly of Kalymnos, where Rockfax/UKC has grouped multiple crags together over a reasonably large area, and some of which have very different approches - Telendos South Face (243 climbs) and Emborios (193) being two examples.

I've made a start on this, splitting Area E in to it's constituent parts. Any takers to moderate the following crags?

• Muppet Show
• Frydi
• Saint Nicholas
• Mikri Sintza and Garden of Dionysos

If you visit the crag page you can add yourself as a mod directly.

Area D now complete, with the following crags available for moderation

• King of Thrones and Dornröschen
• Cave of Panagiá, Mad Wall and Piccolo Muro
• Yellow Wall
• Theós
• Love Ledge
• Miti
• Sabaton and Mini Canyon
• Cool at the Pool

I’ve just got to Leonidio and shall be here for a few months. Just got permissions to moderate and happy to chip in with the system that gets decided on. I’ve already noticed a lot of errors with routes, missing, wrong grades etc. 

Dave 

Thanks for the offer Dave. As well as individual route corrections, lots of crags could do with updated descriptions and approach details so plenty to go at if you're after something to do!

I've finished splitting Area C in to the following crags:

• Kokkinovrachos Central
• Kokkinovrachos Hospital
• Adis, Cemetery Gates and Olympos
• Blasphemia
• Hermes and Namaste
• Venus, Mars, Phobos and Jupiter

Hey guys! Was wondering what was going on because I suddenly noticed lots of sectors missing on the large area pages, so had a look on this forum
I'm happy to help moderate. We bought a house in Leonidio and live here all year round. A few things:
- I do think it makes sense to have more separated crags, just not too tiny. So the current direction looks good.
- However, maybe I overlooked something on the site, but I do really miss an "area dimension" that groups all the Leonidio crags together. At the moment the parent of the crags is Pelopponese, but that's way too general. I hope this is possible to add. It would save everyone from having to use the search all the time if you have all the crags easily listed.
- Lots of new routes and some crags have been developed here, that weren't on UKC yet. Some are in the 2023 Panjika book, but not all. I noticed a lot of the grades on UKC came from the older Aris guidebook, and many routes are downgraded now in the Panjika guides, however not always consistently. There are definitely still soft routes, but now also some sandbagged ones. Sometimes at the same crag. So expect users to not always agree with the guidebook grades.

I've finished splitting area b in to separate crags so the following are now available for moderation:

• Hot Rock
• Souvlakovrachos, Pounta and Aresos
• Sala
• Twin Caves
• Crash of the Titans
• Megakante
• Balcony
• Yellow Eyes
• Sigi and Solarium

I noticed there were a couple of crags missing (compared to the latest guide) which could do with being added if someone is feeling keen. These are Theatro and Sigi. Theatro would make sense as a separate crag imo, but Sigi could be added as a buttress to solarium.

Heads up that something has gone awry while I was trying to split area A up, so the crag is currently a bit of a mess (loads of buttresses in the wrong place). I've called for backup but please bear with me while I try and sort it.

The deed is done. Area A is now split in to the following crags:

• Nifada and Frankenstein
• Panorama
• Elona
• Africa
• Neanderthal
• Souvlaki
• Gerovrachos
• Le Chateau Polonais to La Maison des Chevres
• Maisonette
• Ardspach Wall
• Pomegranate
• Skiadhianiko
• Latin Love
• Blue Mountains and Brazilian Cave
• Limeri
• Kamares
• Fortress
• El Perpati
• Andromeda
• Sector Bees
• X-Mas
• Oedipus and Jewellery Box
• Berliner Mauer and Kindergarten
• Golden Dusk
• Grandee Cuckoo
• H.A.D.A and V.I.P Tree
• Bella Vista
• Montanejos Climbing Garden
• Giggerl
• Thalassa

Think I'm done with crag admin for a while 😅

I guess I'm a bit late to the party, but in my opinion there's now way too many crags. It would have made more sense to me to have some crags on the same cliff line in a group, as it is in Chulilla (Pantano area, Town area, etc.), or Geyikbayiri (Upper Tier and Lower tier).

Yeah it's a bit of a balance. Where possible I've tried to group crags with similar approaches together as that felt like a natural grouping. Including stuff with different approaches feels a bit awkward imo, even if they are on the same band of cliff, because you end up with lots of "for x, do this approach, for y do this other approach, for z..."

Doing gods work, Remus!

Well yeah.. but that's what guidebooks are for...