UKH

Anna Wells is several weeks into a round of all 282 Munros, which she aims to complete within the winter season. If successful she will be only the fourth person that we know of, and the first woman, to do a winter Munro round. We caught up with her in a rare moment of downtime to find out how it's all been going so far. 

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In reply to UKC/UKH News:  brilliant to follow Annas progress - such a great adventure every day!  I think you’ve missed one winter round though - Will Copestake did a round of the munros in winter 2013 by bike I think (after solo kayaking around Scotland the summer before)

In reply to UKC/UKH News:

I'd love to know how many miles.

In reply to UKC/UKH News:

Did Steve Perry do his continuous round within the official three months from late December to late March? If so, that's really extremely impressive!

That official window does seem slightly contrived to me though - I think most people would probably count Dec/Jan/Feb as the generally the toughest and most wintery months; March has a lot more daylight than December and can be very Spring-like. Obviously some sort of artificial boundaries need to be agreed on though if records are to be kept.

Anyway, I hope Anna manages to keep on track over the gnarlier spell forecast!

In reply to arose:

Fantastic adventure isn't it!

Will did the Corbetts in winter, not the Munros (similarly gnarly though of course) https://www.ukhillwalking.com/news/2017/05/will_copestake_completes_winter_...

In reply to UKC/UKH News:

Good effort, especially given the current chilly weather. However, "I have done well over 1000 [Munros], maybe 2000" is amusingly vague for a first-class maths graduate.

If she has indeed been up 2000 Munros by age 34, what with the doctoring and banking work and the overseas climbing as well, that's arguably even more remarkable than what she's trying to achieve just now.

In reply to Dan Bailey - UKHillwalking.com:

I take it his round of Munros was not within the time category although winter? Very impressive including the kayaking around Scotland thrown in as well. 

In reply to fmck:

Reading back, it looks like he did the Munros between September and April/May, so a lot will have been in winter but I don't know what proportion. Quite the journey overall.

In reply to Dave Hewitt:

A few seasons guiding in the Cuillin could easily rack up a lot of those. Half might be the Inaccessible Pinnacle!

In reply to Grahame N:

Hasn't she done 8a too?

In reply to Dan Bailey - UKHillwalking.com:

I dont want to sound pedantic but (you can tell I am now going to sound pedantic!) what counts as a "winter round of the munros"?  Martin fit his round into the the classic perception of winter (Dec 21st to March 20th) and finished on 13th March(?).  Kev appears to have been trying to do the same but was outwith these dates after battling through an incredibly stormy winter.  Will appears to have done his from Autumn into Spring (which would cover winter) but was perhaps outwith that definition of a winter season at either side.

All of these rounds are amazing in terms of commitment, fitness and logistical challenge and it seems strange to discount some rounds as they don't fit some fairly arbritary dates.  If Anna were to finish on the 22nd of March would her "winter round" suddenly not count?   Surely not.  Any of these rounds are phenomenal achievement's and it just seemed a shame not to see one of them mentioned when another was.

In reply to Robert Durran:

Could be substantial as you say - depends how long she was active in the Cuillin in guiding terms. I once saw of a figure of 800-odd In Pinn ascents by Jonah Jones - that's the highest I've seen for that although I don't know if it's actual Sgurr Dearg and In Pinn ascents - ie some could have been multiple Pinn ascents on the same outing, which most folk (but not everyone) wouldn't count as separate Munro ascents.

I've done quite a bit of research into repeat ascending, being inclined that way myself, and the highest Munro tally I know of is (exactly) 2800 for Ben Lomond by the late Alan Douglas. Outwith Scotland there was a 19th century Llanberis guide named Tom Ward who apparently made over 4000 ascents of Snowdon.

In reply to arose:

Arbitrary timeline, arbitrary list. I get that some sort of classification helps people decide what to do, particularly if they want to be competitive about it, but for me the commodification/collection of summits will always be an inherently flawed approach to spending time in the hills. I'm well aware i'm in the minority on that and wish her well!

In reply to Drexciyan:

Describing something like Munro bagging as "inherently flawed" seems unnecessarily judgemental. We all have our own reasons for spending time in the hills, I'm pretty sure I would be hard pressed to convince anyone that my reasons were better than anyone else's.

In reply to planetmarshall:

Oh ffs I never said anything was wrong with bagging or that my reasons for it were better. Was highlighting the inherent flaws in a certain approach to it that someone else had already alluded to. I don't think you would be hard pressed to agree that setting time frames and specific summit requirements is somewhat arbitrary. There is nothing judgemental about that.

In reply to Dave Hewitt:

I'm over 2000 on Cadair Idris... 🤦‍♂️

In reply to Myfyr Tomos:

Great stuff. A good hill for lots of different routes up and down. How many times do you tend to go up each year, ish? You probably already know about the 18th-century guide Robert Edwards who lived in Dolgellau, was up Cadair Idris over 1800 times, and lived to over 90? Also David and Robert Pugh (not sure if they were father and son or two brothers) who made over 1400 ascents, often with a pony, in the years before WW2. (Info variously from Bev Barratt, Dewi Jones and the late Clem Clements.)

In reply to Drexciyan:

I mean, you clearly did. You said it was "inherently flawed". What else does, "inherently flawed" mean, if it isn't a judgement?

In reply to planetmarshall:

Making a judgement is different to being judgemental, get back in your cave!

In reply to arose:

I'm not sure it's "classic". More some arbitrary meteorological definition - as I said, December is, I think, more likely to be wintery than March.

It would be pretty daft. If we are getting into what is "recognised" it would make much more sense to alllow a wide range of dates (if any at all) and leave it up to the discretion or, if you like, honesty of the individual whether they claim a winter round or not (a bit like winter climbing). Why not start mid November if there is an early dump of snow? Or, if you end up doing a lot of them in March in running shoes and t-shirt, should you really be claiming a winter round?

In reply to Drexciyan:

No, that's...exactly what it means.

In reply to planetmarshall:

Are judges (the ones with wigs) judgemental?

In reply to Robert Durran:

If they make a judgement about the quality of someone else's experience by describing it as "inherently flawed", yes.

In reply to planetmarshall:

read it again - I said FOR ME

In reply to Drexciyan:

Something cannot be "inherent" only "for you".

In reply to Robert Durran:

Exactly right, it's all pot luck. Also nice to think that unlike the 24-hour challenges, you can't gain advantage by waiting for good (or cop out!) conditions. You get what you get, luck or no luck.

In reply to planetmarshall:

I realise being a pedantry keyboard warrior is your lifes work but you need to know when to stop. I never passed judgement on Anna's pretty impressive efforts or her reasons for doing so but respectfully tried to articulate what for me are the flaws in setting arbitrary rules to such things - I'd actually be surprsised if she disagreed. This is the difference between being judgemental and passing judgement which you fail to grasp, or even care for because your pedantry is your only motivation here.

Just to reiterate, good luck Anna it is a very impressive effort you are making I wish you all the best!

In reply to Drexciyan:

I am not the one who now seems to be escalating a simple disagreement into something personal. I simply think that you're wrong, and the way you phrased your opinion of Munro bagging as something which is "inherently flawed" comes across as a judgement on the quality of that experience *for everyone*. That is what *inherent* means.

I have no particular wish to call you names, and if you absolutely insist on having the last word, have at it.

In reply to planetmarshall:

I think Drexicyan should probably withdraw the inadvertently inappropriate word "inherently" and then both leave it at that!

In reply to Robert Durran:

Agreed.

In reply to Robert Durran:

Really? Not wanting to get into a tedious debate on semantics......, but surely most people would agree that someone can subjectively believe the arbitrary classification of prominent hills and time limits is inherently flawed? 

Drexicyan made it clear by congratulating Anna that the point made wasn't in judgement to their endeavours, but gesturing to a philosophical discussion on how people relate to the hills. A subject done on here time and time again, but one I believe is worthy returning to time and time again, as it does have real world consequences.

In reply to scoth:

Look up inherent. I don't for one minute think Drexicyan was judging other peoples' motives in absolute terms; it was just an unfortunate choice of word.

In reply to UKC/UKH News:

Reading the first three words of this gave me quite a shock before I had time to read the rest. So young!

In reply to Robert Durran:

I did  And still think somebody can hold a view that the quality of something can be inherently flawed.

Suppose it comes down to a fundamental argument about objectivity - i.e. if you believe in it - I don't by the way.

So not sure it was an unfortunate choice of word, more of a hasty reaction by Planet Marshall to a perceived 'outrage' - An all too common aspect of many in cyberspace me thinks. 

In reply to scoth:

I'm not "outraged", I just disagree, and happen to think the meaning of words is important. Especially in cyberspace where I have little to go on except the meaning of the words that were used. If people think that this makes me a "pedantic keyboard warrior", I can live with it.

In reply to scoth:

Yes, you can. Just like I can hold an opinion, say, that "climbing is inherently dangerous", and for that opinion to be subjective. What doesn't make sense is to believe that climbing is inherently dangerous, but only when I do it. It means that I believe it's dangerous when I do it, dangerous when you do it, and dangerous when anyone else does it - because I think it's an intrinsic property of the activity. Call it semantics if you like, but that's what the word means.

All you have to do is say, "Munro bagging is not for me, but good luck to those who do it". What I took issue with was going on to say that it's an "inherently flawed" approach, which I thought was judgemental.

Quite why that necessitated a tirade of personal abuse is beyond me.

In reply to planetmarshall:

No, because I enjoy munro bagging myself but also think its an inherently flawed approach. I tried to make it clear that I was not judging someone else for doing so, you chose to infer otherwise and continued to dismantle my view with pedantry rather than engage in what could have been an interesting discussion but seems to have descended into an embarassing exchange of one-upmanship, time to move on..

So this time I will finish by saying apologies to Anna/everyone for the unintended noise this has created and hope it has not distracted too much from her impressive efforts.

In reply to UKC/UKH News:

Where is she at? Has she finished?

In reply to French Erick:

https://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/ukc/anna_wells_completes_winter_munro_rou...

Yes!

In reply to Robert Durran:

Doh! Only saw it this pm!!

In reply to Robert Durran:

The meteorological winter is 1st December to 1st March.
The classic (astronomical) one is based on the start of the Winter Solstice and ends with the Spring Equinox.

In reply to FactorXXX:

Sorry, yes, I had them the wrong way round. I actually think that meteorological winter would likely be both meteorologically and astronomically the more challenging of the two (weather and daylight).

In reply to Robert Durran:

I'm sure there's a video somewhere of her leading Black Friday (E5 6a) at Polldubh and that's no pushover. 

Edit: After much time on a shunt I headpointed it with pre placed gear, although back then headpointing was called Not Doing it Properly, or Cheating.

In reply to 65:

Yes, I remember seeing that.