UKH

I was wondering about the experience of climbers and friendships, transient relationships and ageing…

Triggered by my own experience of course!

Im 58, soon to be 59. A single bloke and a single parent to grown up kids and I don’t climb these days having spent all my leisure time climbing in the past. My mates all related to climbing, most have moved on, some have passed, some are in to drinking and drugs….consequently I find myself a touch lonesome apart from work colleagues but looking at the literature there are many people my age from all walks of life in the same boat…

This may sound melancholic which is not what I am…my kids are not too far away and I spend a lot of lovely time with them but I must admit I do feel saddened about the past and it being ‘past’….just a few beer filled musings really…

In reply to Abr:

I wrote a long reply and deleted it as it was just personal musings.  I’m of the life stage where it’s just starting to register that the little ones won’t be here forever and I’ll need a different focus in my life some day.

 
The funny thing about the past is our tendency to remember the positives.  I have incredibly fond memories of my late teenage years, but if I force myself to be objective, now is more awesome even if it wasn’t for my mid life crisis rear-mid engined sports car.

It is melancholic that I think my hardest climbing days are in my past; the strength and fitness of youth combined with the lack of Serious Life Commitments is unlikely to reoccur.

In reply to Abr:

If you think about the friends that you have lost, due to changes in life circumstances or to mortality, it can be pretty saddening.

But there are plenty of new friends to make (or old friends to reconnect with) and adventures to be had.

I speak as someone who is 2 years older than you.

In reply to Abr:

I am 64. My wife of 40 years has recently died. We had no kids, but we did everything together, and had many great years in the hills and mountains. So now it's just me left on my own, wondering what the f-uck I am supposed to do.

I feel totally f-ucked and now, looking back, consider what I thought at the time to be very important things in my life (e.g. routes climbed; or summits attained) to be absolutely trivial and juvenile.

In reply to tempusername:

My thoughts and sentiments with you…I wish you the best in the hardest of times, I can only imagine how hard it may be.

I spent a while with the bereaved in a past job and learned plenty…as always it’s better to hear and learn from those feeling it than reading about it…I’m hoping you have your own ones around you…

In reply to Abr:

I’m nearly 65 and the answers in this thread so far are getting me angry. I lost my climbing and life partner a few months ago. Get out of the house, meet new people, get on those rocks again, look forward and not back. It’s the only way.

In reply to McHeath:

Why angry?  People cope with these things in different ways.  What works for you isn't necessarily going to be the best for others.  I'm admittedly coming at it from the other side of the telescope, but I really can't envisage wanting to do any of these things.  I wouldn't get angry at those who do!  

In reply to tempusername:

I am sorry for your loss.

My wife died when I was aged 65. A huge hole and as you say it puts things in perspective. I had no idea what to do.

Now aged 70 I have a new wife. Not a replacement but a different person to learn to love and be with. A different but hopefully happy life.

Give yourself time. No one can tell you how long it will take, it takes as long as it does.

In reply to Abr:

Thanks for starting the thread, interesting stuff.  I remember the sense of community and welcome I found when visiting church in Australia on Christmas Day years ago (mainly to get away from my hosts in-laws!).  If only I was religious I think the support and comfort from such a community woud be such a positive constant presence in one's life.  Just the God bit I can't do.  Perhaps I should be a humanist when I am a bit older and my kids have left.

Thoughts with all those on the thread who speak of losing life partners.  My wife and I met when we were 17, about 30 years ago.  The thought of one or the other of us leaving early is utterly, totally terrifying.

In reply to Abr:

I'm 68 soon to be 69. I'm still with my wife after neary 50 years. Despite some significant physical issues I still climb and that gives me good companions and craic. I regularly meet up with a bunch of other old guys both indoors and out. Some of these are partners of long standing but others I've met since retirement. A complaint one often hears about climbing clubs is that the membership is on the old side - but that strikes me as an advantage for blokes like me, making it easy to make new mates. I assume there's a similar picture in many recreational clubs, providing a good escape from loneliness for those in their autumnal (always the best season on the grit) years.

In reply to Abr:

I am well over 70 and losing energy steadily. Tired every morning, just can't get going. A 40 minute walk or more than 1 short climb tires me out. Physical problems increase, many visits to the hospital and doctor every year. Who cares. I am just so grateful to the NHS

But absolutely no regrets in life. I am just so glad to have had great years and decades in the past. And still enjoy the present 

I too have lost so many friends climbing.... the younger the more tragic IMO

Friends? They inevitably drift away, distance, time. And friendship IMO isn't the same as it was before, in my 20s, 30s. Just my experience 

In reply to Abr:

I have to thank you for starting this chat.  It makes me feel a whole lot better knowing there are others out there in our community who are struggling with this.... it's not just me then.

I'm a single bloke, 61, with 2 grown up kids.  Wife and I divorced after 32 years together.   Climbing is what I've done for 50 years, but partners have moved on, given up, died, or been killed.  As a result I've moved in to soloing... not sure this is a good idea... although I've done some great routes, summer and winter, on my own.

Being on my own, I'm struggling sometimes to get out the house, can't be arsed to connect with others, and am lonely as a result.  A contradiction for which I am totally responsible. But I'm finding it tough....  It's not helped by the fact that I have always got on better with women than men.  60 something women climbers are not common!

Not sure what I'm trying to say here, but know I need to try something different,  before I can't get out the door.  I've always been a positive, forward looking guy up to now - so this has confused me.

Off bouldering...

Barbeg

In reply to Abr:

There's a spot just above the Lune Valley where I can sit and look at a glorious array of Yorkshire hills, from Fountains Fell to the Howgills. In my minds eye I will recall all the decades of adventures I had on them, above and below ground and it raises my spirits that I was so lucky. It would be natural not to feel some regret at the passing of things that can't ever return but that's the way of life and I'm grateful that I even had the chance to experience them. The memories last and I can't go back there but that's OK, it's everyone's lot that we all have to deal with. A good friend of mine lost his wife in her fifties a few years ago and I can only imagine the appalling awfulness of this. Someone said 'it's better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all'. It's facing many of us but it's part and parcel of our common humanity and we all will deal with it in our own ways.

In reply to Abr:

Im just 48 and have been having some similar thoughts recently. I guess it's mid-life crisis time.

I dont climb any more and struggling with running due to various reasons so I have to look to other things. 

I took up golf a couple of years ago and joined a club. It has unleashed a whole new social scene and I have met some new friends through it. It also provides a challenge (it's a bloody hard pastime) and also provides a very good 8 mile workout when I play as the course is very hilly. My best pal has been badgering me for nearly 20 years and I was always a bit sniffy about it. I now get to see him more often and have met new friends through him. I wish I'd tried it earlier.

There are some total nobbers in the game but you get that everywhere and the beauty is, as long as I can walk and have some mobility I will have a sport which I can do until I die.

In reply to Abr:

As one who has always been comfortable with my own company solitude is not something that bothers me all that much. However as another old friend passed away recently it does make me consider my own mortality. Apart from the annoying accumilations of minor injuries I seem to get now, I don't hanker for the past. I was a lot more miserable when I was younger now I am quite sanguine about it all.

In reply to Abr:

I recommend you actively find new friends. Friendship is something you have to work on and develop.  Not relying on old friends is important.

In reply to Abr:

Seems to be a common male thing, I work remotely from home full time so do not see any work colleagues, we moved to France recently and the language is a big barrier to meeting and just chatting to people. Often I regret the move and leaving more established friendships back in the UK. But I have met climbers here, other expats mainly, so climbing has been a life saver for me. 

Still miss my grown-up kids though and look back on family life with 2 great teenagers with a lot of nostalgia and longing.

In reply to barbeg:

It's easy to fall into this vicious circle. Soloing is a lot of fun but, and I don't have to tell you this, as we get older we bounce less well and are more prone to unexpected health events. Keeling over on a pavement is embarrassing, doing the same whilst soloing is likely to be fatal. 

Friendships need a bit of cultivating. Climbing partnerships certainly need cultivating. As you say, people move away, retire, take up cycling or other unspeakable activities. So you have to make a bit of an effort to get to know new climbing partners from time-to-time. Friends-of-friends, clubs, meet-up groups, UKC and other social media, climbing wall events, yada yada... 

Do women have to be in their 60s? That you're not chasing after much younger women suggest a degree of self-awareness that is quite attractive but I think you could safely widen your criteria a little. I know quite a few women climbers in their later 40s and 50s who would be delighted to get to know a man of your age who is not married, not gay, not penniless, not a nutter, not looking for a nurse or prostitute (making assumptions) and can still see his toes. You may not realise it but you're a sought-after commodity! 

In reply to RX-78:

When I first lived in France I learnt much of my French from climbing, skiing & walking with non-English speaking members of the local branch of the Club Alpin Français who, luckily for me, where very tolerant of my then (very) poor French.

Bon chance.

In reply to Petrafied:

Guess you’re right, it’s unnecessary. It was a gut reaction; I know that I can’t let defeatism and sorrow about the lost past take me over, but that’s not to say that it might not in some way be constructive for others to take that path first before (hopefully) finding a way out and forward.

In reply to RX-78:

Not sure if it's uniquely male, but at 58 I'm pondering a lot about the past, the future and slowly encroaching old age, disability and death. I'm cheerful that way…

I'm fortunate to still have my health, apart from the usual niggles, aches and pains, and of course still have my wife. I think people often look back with rose-tinted glasses at the past. A friend was waxing lyrical about how it would be great to be young again, my personal view is it was a pretty miserable experience, and things improved immensely when I hit my 30's.

There's things I would do differently, things I could have done but didn't do, but that's life and I had my reasons at the time. All the “What would you have done then, if you knew what you know now?” stuff is pretty pointless.

So back to ageing. Physical decline isn't fun, but I was never much cop at competitive sports, so dropping my parkrun times a bit isn't the huge ego blow it is to some people. Not looking forward to actual infirmity, but I'll deal with that when it happens.

In terms of loneliness, I've always been a bit of a loner, and don't really enjoy meeting new people or being in unfamiliar social situations. I have a few good friends, most a few hundred miles away, but we meet up every couple of months.

My wife and I recently had a conversation about what would happen after bereavement. She was adamant I should find somebody else, but TBH I don't think I'd want the hassle of 'dating' . I've got similar views about joining clubs, I'm not really a 'joiner', I'm quite happy running or walking on my own.

As Duncan Bourne said earlier in the thread, I'm pretty sanguine about things, and happier approaching 60 than I was when I was younger. I'd be absolutely devastated if I lost my wife, but I wouldn't try and fill the void by interacting with new people.

In reply to Abr:

BS! Doesn't have to be past unless you make it that way. Join a climbing club or join a caving club or both. Get busy...

Or... Slow down and let your body adapt to slow and aging. Your choice... Up to you.

Post intended as tough love (not just crass insensitivity)

In reply to McHeath:

I don't think anybody knows how they will - or should - deal with such a catastrophic loss, before it actually happens.

In the case of my wife, it was terminal cancer - so we both knew what was coming, and I tried to brace myself for it. But, no - nothing I had thought about previously has in any way helped me to cope with the reality.

I will carry on - principally because I promised my wife that I would do so. (And, in reverse, had I been the one who had gotten got the death sentence, I would have both hoped and fully expected that my wife would have gone on to live a good, productive, and fulfilling life.) But I am finding it tremendously difficult. I am only a fallible human.

In reply to tempusername:

I don't think anyone knows how they'll react until the situation arises. I wouldn't think of yourself as 'fallible' as you're not failing or making any mistakes. There isn't a proper way at all. One of things that sometimes made me unhappy as a younger person was worrying about what other people thought of me or what I did. Later, I thought 'Sod them'. It's a benefit of getting older. I really wish you well.

In reply to Abr:

Ayup Abr

The thing is that the past is gone for good. Everyone will have good and bad memories of the past.

The future, we don’t know if we have one or how long for so don’t plan too far ahead, just have positive ideas of what you want to do.

The present is all we have. Plan a trip, even if it’s a walk and a camp in the hills, and go. Don’t waste time just do it

If you’re sat there bored, stick Bushman and Blue on you tube. I found him annoying at first, but he has the right idea for a young bloke and has motivated me to just get out more.

Dave

In reply to Dave the Rave:

Ayup Dave…good shout…I’ve watched some of his videos and others in the same genre!

you are bang on it’s a case of doing and not overthinking/procrastinating (which I’m good at!).

Some people may be good at adjusting and accepting less with age, I reckon so far I won’t be! The thing is I only ever climbed hard then stopped, pottering up stuff doesn’t appeal…I’m not proud of the fact but it just doesn’t!!

Im well lucky, got great kids and I still like my job etc but dodgy joints and too much weight for sure I’ll not climb again but I do like brr er ing on the hill still so will do more as the weather hopefully improves.

Thread….really appreciate the replies and lots of respect to those who have lost their loved ones…

In reply to everyone:

Great thread - lots of interesting ponderings borne by lifetimes of experience.  Thanks to everyone for sharing the wisdom.

I'm 57, with a very happy family life (2 teenage kids at home) - but I'm aware of approaching changes: eldest child likely to be at Uni in September, youngest starting 6th Form.  OH and I have both lost our remaining parents in past 2 years.  Retirement not far away.  None of this is particularly scary, but I'm aware that my life in 3 years is likely to be completely different to my current life.

To quote Madeleine Bunting: 'The sense of liminality was visceral: all was in flux...'

In reply to Abr:

I’m just wondering why you’re not climbing any more. You’re still only middle aged by my standards. If spared I shall join my wife as an octogenarian later this year but we’ve really only given up on climbing in the last few months, after Debbie broke a neck of femur. So it turns out our last climbs were last year a couple of V Diffs on Sunny Crag in the company of one of our little girls who will be 52 (!) this month. That’s aging. 
If you enjoyed climbing in the past it may be something that you could return to and make new friends.

I do hope you find a way to a happier life.

In reply to tempusername:

As others have said, there's no right way to deal with such a devastating loss. Of course you're finding it difficult, as is McHeath. It's natural to be angry, sorrowful, broken, shattered - you wouldn't be human if you weren't.

There's no easy way forward. All I can do is wish you, and everyone else in your position, all the best that you can make of the situation.

In reply to Abr:

I recently read something which stated that the biggest factor in long and healthy living is being socially connected. It was a bigger factor than smoking or healthy eating!

I guess it's hard to start new social groups later in life, but definitely worth making the effort. 

Maybe try something totally different from climbing. Ballroom dancing? Art classes? Language classes? Try different things and see if anything sticks.

In reply to Abr:

69 and lucky with health. Kids long grown up. Recent New Scientist article https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg26134840-400-how-mastering-the-art-o... (sorry may be behind paywall) made a very interesting distinction between solitude (generally a good thing once you get your head round it) and loneliness (generally not a good thing).

As many others have said you have to embrace change and look for new interests. I can't get out these days as much as I used to, so I started learning guitar at age 68. I'll never be any good, but I'm having lots of fun. A new challenge always welcome.  

Paul

In reply to Abr:I    I empathise with a lot that has been said on this thread. Being in my mid 70's and until recently fairly active. However just over a year ago I had a stroke and although I was very lucky and got off lightly, I find tirednes is the main reasonmy climbing activities are restricted, I'm quite sanguine about this and consider myself incredibly fortunate  to have been involved in the Mendip Rock Liberation Front to a small degree. So I'd just like to say a big thanks for the memories.

In reply to Abr:

Why not pick up climbing again? The fact that you're on this site suggests you have a lingering interest in climbing. To me the great thing about climbing is that the experience feels much the same whether we're climbing something harder when we're stronger or easier when we're weaker -the struggle is the joy regardless!

If you don't fancy meeting up with other climbers, bouldering is a great way to bump into new people or simply to enjoy the outside with only the birds and insects for company if you choose somewhere quieter.

In reply to Ridge:

You’re still in your middle aged phase, old age won’t be likely to be encroaching yet.  I’m 58 this year and my thoughts are not filled with disability and death.

In reply to Brass Nipples:

I'm genuinely pleased for you. It's all a continuum rather than you hit a point marked 'Old Age' but at best I've got slightly over 20 years, and at some point in that timescale the current rate of decline is likely to steepen.

Been to a few funerals lately, some similar age to me, so that has had an influence.

In reply to Abr:

59 in a few weeks. There's a few things that could have been different in my life;

My job is rather dull and I regard it as a waste of my valuable time. I could have committed more fully to climbing and climbed harder. I could have slept with more women. I could have noticed the signs of alcoholism before it kicked me in the teeth.

But: that job will provide me with a decent pension in three years. I accept the joys that climbing brought me as they did. A different romantic history would deprived me of the two children I have (an utterly desolating thought). I'm sober and better in every respect for it.

I'm damn sure that many many of my best experiences lie in front of me.

In reply to pasbury:

I can't wait to become a pensioner - Vera Lynn, singing 'Roll Out the Barrel' and talking about incontinence pants will be brilliant!

In reply to Lankyman:

The last pub full of pensioners I went in had Motorhead and the Sex Pistols playing on the Juke Box.

In reply to Abr:

I’m 67 and still obsessed with climbing , grades are not what they were but I’m still getting a lot from it, mentally, physically and socially.

In reply to Lankyman:

My bus pass is on its way : )

In reply to Phil1919:

A friend of mine who lives in Wales and is a year older than me got his aged 60. I've got to wait another couple of years - still time for me to kick the bucket and save the Treasury a few quid.

In reply to Ridge:

Most of the inhabitants of our village are pensioners. At our village hall New Year's eve bash we had a band playing Cream and Jimi Hendrix.

Can't comment on the incontinence pads, but current medication is however a rich source of topics for conversation.

In reply to Phil1919:

Got mine - brilliant for catching Covid and chums. Done absolutely nothing since January.

Very much Sex Pistols and Motorhead generation.

In reply to Phil1919:

Mrs Ridge got hers last year, just after the only bus route within 6 miles of the house was axed. She wasn't happy.

In reply to Ridge:

Up date on the physical things. I now have a dodgy knee (MCL strain, Medial Meniscus tear) courtesy of dropping less than a metre onto the mat at the climbing wall. I do my best to keep fit and active but it was just a reminder to me that as one gets old injuries occur more frequently (still got residual dodgy shoulder and pulled muscle in my arms), take longer to recover and occur for dafter reasons. I don't want to end up one of those people who don't do a thing for fear of injury but I do try to think through the potential outcomes (no dynos, or jumping off.. except I did that'll teach me)

In reply to Abr:

Yes, good post, thanks. I don't think there's any answer except trying to put yourself out there......U3A, a faith movement, Buddhist retreat, voluntary work, purposeful hobby, YHA trip, public transport, zoom meetings.......anything you can persuade yourself to go to on a regular basis.

In reply to Ridge:

I'm quite lucky - a mere 3/4 hour walk over Whinfell and through boggy woodland terrain will get me to a bus stop at Centre Parcs.  The world is veritably my oyster.  It's a lonely dark and wild walk back if I dare try it at night.

In reply to Duncan Bourne:

At 70 my climbing is going OK - I don't fancy falling off trad, though there again I never did. As for bouldering, which I used to enjoy - I have a vivid image of my legs snapping like dry twigs if I had to jump off from any height, so it doesn't really appeal anymore.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

As I crumble ever closer to 70 I'm still bouldering a fair bit, indoor and out - but since jumping more than a foot jars my well dodgy back I have to downclimb every damn thing. Indoors, it's often more knackering than getting up there in the first place. Outdoors, one thing I'm particularly struck by is that as I walk along the gritstone edges hunting down the soft touch V0s and V1s, I stare in bemusement at the V3s and V4s I flashed years ago, wondering how you even get off the ground.

In reply to Abr:

Some similarities to you, though married with no kids, one dog.

My old mates were based on, not climbing, but going out, at first to gigs then clubs. Well, you can't really keep clubbing through your 40s and 50s and now tinnitus means I'm avoiding gigs too. Last one was March 2020. Aside from the potential for it to worsen, it makes following conversations difficult. I annoy myself!

I never really made many climbing friends, starting late, but my one great partner moved away a few years back. I boulder but the crowd at the wall are too young and boulder too hard! I chat with them but I'm not projecting with them!

I work from home f-t but am 'watching the clock' as I plan to drop a day to 4 days per week sometime. Then I plan to use that extra day to engage in voluntary environmental stuff and hopefully meet new people that way. It worked for me 20 years ago when I was living in London.