UKH

I am undertaking a project to identify the finest hills in Britain and Ireland, which I am calling the 'Worthies'. There are likely to be hundreds of them and height or relative prominence is of little concern.

Most importantly, I would be grateful for your thoughts on why you might consider one hill better than another? It may be the raw attraction of beauty or grandeur; the intricacies of the ridges and corries; the challenge of the ascent; the remote atmosphere; the expansive or intimate views; or the joy of a dry, well-graded path. All these and more will influence your appreciation of a hill. What works for one person may be of less value to another, so the more ideas I can collate the better balance I can achieve.

I have identified some suitable criteria and have written a blog about this, which you can read here: https://merchantofadventures.com/index.php/category/blog/worthy-discussions...

Many thanks for your input!

In reply to Peter Simpson:

My favourite hill/mountain/peak/high thing is Snowdon. I think it's because it was the first mountain I ever climbed. I was in good company, beautiful day with a real sense of achievement and it got me on the hook so I just have a nostalgic draw back to it.

But it fails on many of the things I enjoy about a day in the hills, peace and quiet, the reward that you are doing something special that not many people can do (or at least believe they can do), being out in the sticks, and having a real challenge that pushes you.

These are things I enjoy most in the hills, yet Snowdon fails on all of them and I still claim it's my favourite mountain. Square that one.

Hopefully more will come along with a more useful and pragmatic view that you can use.

In reply to montyjohn:

I can completely identify with that. It's a superb mountain, sullied by overcrowding, although for most people the popularity is the precise reason they climb it. If it's popular, it must be good!

In reply to Peter Simpson:

Sorry to piss on your chips Peter, but I can't see why you're bothering.

A list of hills you think are great has value to you and interest to others.  A list of every hill someone, somewhere thinks is great according to their own criteria is just a list.  For example, I might think Billinge Hill is the very cat's pyjamas; it isn't at all impressive, it's not especially elevated, it's not a difficult ascent but I may have my own reasons for thinking it a terrific spot.  It may mean nothing to you or anyone else.  So what's the point of including that, then?

Nothing, is what.  There are already umpteen lists and every nondescript excrescence will feature on one of them.  The people that compiled those lists had their own criteria as to what got on them or not.  You won't agree with some of them, and that's fine.  There's no such thing as a definitive list of great hills anyway.

So use your own criteria and write your list, that way it has meaning to you.  Share the list and criteria if you like, others may comment on it if that's what you're after.  But searching for 'balance' is foolish.  

Sorry, and all.

T.

In reply to Peter Simpson:

Now you mention it, if it wasn't so popular I might not have climbed it and may have never have got into the hobby. So for me, overcrowding as a catalyst may have been a good thing.

In reply to Peter Simpson:

One of the things that’s important to me on a hill is relative solitude, so I wouldn’t want to add my favourite hills to a ticklist. More helpfully (but only slightly) for me it’s more about the day than the hill: who I’m with, the weather, how I’m feeling etc

In reply to Tony Buckley:

I can understand that some people will consider my project of no use to them and that's fair enough. However, I would be very grateful if you point me in the direction of the umpteen lists you mention and their criteria for quality. I have found a few but not many.

In reply to Peter Simpson:

Some dude wrote more books than you can shake a stick at in lakes. Another guy wanted all the Scottish 3000' peaks named after him.

There are lots of other books, 50 best ridges, great mountain days in lakes/Scotland/wales/peaks etc etc..

In reply to Peter Simpson:

There are umpteen lists on UK Hillwalking alone.  Sure, some of the lists won't be relevant to you but most will.  Then do a web search for UK hill lists.

It's your list.  Go look.

T.

In reply to Peter Simpson:

Only you can make such a list - we all have our own ideas of a favourite hill.  However you soon get a feel for the consensus through media.    Walkhighland has a few lists you can rank on number of visits or star rating and there is always Trail Walker.

In reply to Fat Bumbly 2.0:

Precisely, and that's what I want to hear - each individual's criteria. I have studied the Walkhighland's rating but there are no criteria to work with. There is also the Trail 100 on this forum but again no reasoning behind it. I appreciate quality is subjective but I would like to analyse that subjectivity.

In reply to Peter Simpson:

Its such a subjective topic.

My favourite hill (which I suspect is nowhere near a great hill by most standards) is Binsey.

Its a hill I walked on with my wife and daughter when she was young. We had a gentle amble to the top on lovely grass, the weather was glorious, and its where I spotted a red squirrel, the one and only time I have seen one in almost 50 years on this planet.

Not a crag, ridge, hazard, tarn or anything remotely interesting in sight, other than the fantastic view to other hills.

In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:

Binsey is one of my favourites too. Sale Fell is likewise in the same vein. The glorious views and the grass carpets are what makes these hill special.

In reply to ExiledScot:

You are correct, there are many books although all have limited scope or certain constraints. Few have any form of criteria. Social media is awash with 'the ten best mountains to climb before you die' but they mainly pander to fashionable popularity. There are many lists such as that you mention, although most are based on elevation, not quality. I'm just trying a different angle.

In reply to Peter Simpson:

Define quality, most on social media will describe the ten best of anything, having only experienced 11 out of the 1000s available. It's awash with drivel and bilge. 

Best bet, go out and do 100 days linking hills together across the uk, then pick yours. It won't match anyone elses, but most importantly you'll have a great time exploring. Forget books, social media etc.  use a map, visualise it, plan it.

In reply to ExiledScot:

We agree about social media then. Your suggestion would certainly be useful, although I have been walking for fifty years so don't need to plan much. What I am looking for are qualities that float other hillwalkers boats, in the interests of a rounded perspective.

In reply to Peter Simpson:

What makes a hill great is if it elicits an emotional response within you, no matter how many times you visit it.  

In reply to Brass Nipples:

Thank you!

In reply to Peter Simpson:

As others above have said, what makes a hill 'great' is (possibly!) much more subjective than objective. Personal experiences and taste vary so enormously that any attempt at categorisation will surely flounder? Of course, there are some hills which will definitely feature in your list - I'd be gobsmacked if something like An Teallach wasn't in there. I've been over that hill twice, viewed it from near and far and would agree it's a Worthy Hill. However, for me it pales by far in comparison to many other hills in 'worthiness' simply because I don't have much attachment to it. One hill I do personally rate very highly is Ingleborough. It was not quite the first two thousand footer I climbed (that was The Calf) but I first climbed it when I was 14 and went on to ascend it by every conceivable route dozens of times (even once in a wetsuit), in all sorts of weather from blue skies to blizzards and slept on the top. I descended dozens of its superb caves and potholes and climbed on its crags, admired its geological glories and pondered its history and prehistory. It resembles a sleeping lion and it's even got a pub named after it.

In reply to Lankyman:

Funnily enough, Ingleborough was the first two thousand footer I climbed and will definitely feature on the list, even if I have to bend the rules! It has presence, isolation, many routes of ascent and a good deal of geological special interest so it's pretty much guaranteed a place.

The Calf is likely to be in there too as the Howgills are glorious walking country, although for mostly different reasons than An Teallach. But each deserves its place and that's why I need a varied range of objectively subjective criteria!

In reply to Peter Simpson:

Having the prefix "Mount" is a guarantee of worthiness.

In reply to Myfyr Tomos:

Mount Lord Herefords K nob? 

In reply to Myfyr Tomos:

Mount Keen is a bit non-descript.

In reply to Robert Durran:

It was the last Munro I lugged a tent over so it has some significance to me at least

In reply to ExiledScot:

I hope you said this in a Kenneth Williams voice?

In reply to Peter Simpson:

What makes a single hillwalk great for me is a mix of solitude, wildlife, views and weather perhaps enhanced by camping high.

I'm not sure I ever think of a hill as being great other than as a vehicle for those factors.

Some, of course, are more likely to serve up the views, wildlife, solitude and summit pitch (if the right route is chosen).

In reply to Peter Simpson:

What makes a hill great is where the microenvironment - the bit you can absorb with your five senses - transports you to the greater ranges, by freak of meteorological conditions and the lay of the land. Even in thick clag with just the drizzle on your face and the sound of the scree moving as you move, everything can suddenly seem alright.

In reply to Peter Simpson:

First of all.... I'm amused at the random dislikes on your post....UCKers.... It's a strange place.

Anyway, Lingmell, just for the too big to take in breathtaking view of Gable.

In reply to Peter Simpson:

Peter I read you blog linked in the OP.

Bless you - you are enjoying your time on this earth and in these hills and that is enough

When younger I was obsessed  by grades and 'quality' and all that.

Now, older, I just wander over  much-loved familiar ground and have lost all thoughts of lists or rankings

In reply to Peter Simpson:

I can't suggest criteria, but I can list some of my favourites.

In Wales, Tryfan (my first mountain when not quite 4, see my photo gallery) and Cnicht, also climbed while still quite young. I've been back to both many times.

In the Lakes, it has to be Great Gable just because)

I've not done enough in Scotland to have a favourite.

In Shropshire, my two favourites are The Lawley followed closely by Caer Caradoc, if you've not walked up them, put them on your to do list.

In reply to Peter Simpson:

If they're in Scotland that's a start.

In reply to birdie num num:

Many thanks. I agree that the view of Gable lifts the status of Lingmell from just an offshoot of Scafell Pike to a summit worth attaining. It also lifts Gable even higher in one's perception of celebrity!

In reply to Mark Kemball:

Thank you Mark. A compelling shape is a massive factor in instilling desire for an ascent and something I will weight accordingly. I am very familiar with the hills around the Long Mynd and, as a distinctive upland area, I intend to include a representative on the list - choosing which is the tricky part. Those you suggest are delightful walks further enhanced by the strong visual qualities of the Batches on the Long Mynd. 

In reply to kaiser:

I appreciate you having taken time to read my blog. I am doing it to keep my brain working in retirement. I have never really been obsessed with grades, nor have I been a peak bagger ticking off summits. At my time of life I thought I would entertain myself by using what I have left to best advantage by choosing hills I like most. It means revisiting a lot of much-loved, familiar ground, if only to take better photographs!

In reply to Peter Simpson:

Keep going! I like what you are doing 

In reply to Peter Simpson:

Yes. I don't want to hog your thread as there are many great suggestions. But two more worthy contenders from minor summits would be Low Fell above Thackerthwaite...another view almost too big to take in with the bulk of Grasmoor and the stunning view up the Crummock Water/Buttermere valley. 
The other would be Moel Eilio.... great views over to Nantlle, Hebog, Snowdon and the slate levels. Then the vista seaward down to Llanddwyn Island and the Newborough Forest.

In reply to birdie num num:

Low Fell is excellent, along with what I call the Buttermere Minors, the supporting heights to the bigger fells, such as melbreak and Rannerdale Knotts. I hate to miss these out so am including 'Honorary Mentions' on my list for completeness.

Moel Eilio is a hill I have not climbed for many years and not in the best weather. It is my plan to revisit and I thank you for confirming what I suspected to be a stunning view.

In reply to Peter Simpson:

ok, I've stewed on it, and here's my crack at answering the question.

• A quality cafe or pub in the nearby village. Love being rewarded after a long hard day with a great meal.
• Variety in plant life. I like to see flowers, and I like trees. Not only are they pretty but they help when it's windy or very sunny. A break from direct sun can be lovely.
• Natural paths. Never been a fan of the manmade paths that take a bit away from what I'm looking for.
• A flattering section. Crib Goch for example whilst technically easy makes you feel like you are doing a bit of proper mountaineering. It compliments you.
• A range of activities. Love it when you can cool off by going for a swim for example.
• Section that you can run interrupted by scramble sections makes things interesting.
• A view of mountains in all directions so you feel like you are isolated an in the wilderness. I don't want to see a city or big town.
• Route options. I like the idea that I can make up my route as I go along, and take a different route back. Feels more like exploring rather than it being the one and only path in and out.
• A bit of history. Could be a few ruins, or old mining equipment. Can add a bit of interest.
• Anything unusual. Take Lud's Church for example. It feels like you've suddenly stepped into another world. Something you won't forget.
• Ideally a full long hard day so you feel like you've done something. 

I'll leave it there, but if you know of anywhere that ticks all of the boxes above I clearly need to get myself there.

In reply to montyjohn:

Rivington Pike ticks some of those boxes

In reply to montyjohn:

Interesting answers, thank you!

In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:

Come to parc tete d'or in Lyon if you want to see and even feed a red squirrel.

In reply to Peter Simpson:

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In reply to Peter Simpson:

Intriguing title; worthy of what? That’s not a niggle, I like the title! So I’m presuming it means “worthy of being cherished for the rest of your life”, or something like that. 

I must have climbed hundreds of hills and mountains in the UK, but two are very special to me, for greatly differing reasons. Ben Lui was my first ever proper mountain, climbed alone in wellies on a blazing summer day from Dalmally on Loch Awe when I was about 15. I’ll never forget those last few metres, where with every step the view from the top started to explode and the steepness on the other side suddenly fell away beneath me. That was the first time I realized that this was a thing I wanted to carry on doing for the rest of my life, and I’m still doing it!

The other hill is small in comparison: Fin Cop above Monsal Dale in the Peak. It must have been photographed millions of times from the dale, but my route snuck up around the back from Ashford (I grew up in Bakewell), leaving the footpath and crossing the fields to get to the true summit, where the experience was always similar to that on Ben Lui, with the Earth suddenly falling away on three sides of you into the depths of the Dale. I’ve been there dozens of times; at sunrise in Summer, or in March when the hares were fighting all over the fields, and even once in a blizzard which forced me to turn back since the only way forward would have been to crawl (which I would have done, but my usually hard as nails big black dog George just lay down when we hit the full blast and whimpered imploringly at me). It’s a magical place, with Iron Age relics and an atmosphere of prehistorical wildness.

Highly personal reasons, yes; but aren’t they all?

Good luck with your project

In reply to Peter Simpson:

Jeez-louise! You go on a hill-walking forum and ask the perfectly reasonable question, "what do you think makes a hill great?" and people start frothing at the mouth about how pointless such questions are...

For what it's worth, I think it's a great discussion point and good luck with your project.

For me:

Shapeliness, strong lines, exposure, some "hands on" moments, breathtaking views, a good continuation journey and a sense of peace and isolation. Desirables: flora and fauna (e.g. peregrines or butterflies and wildflowers!), a water feature, a good crag at the top and a good swimming spot at the bottom.

Cheers!

In reply to McHeath:

As for the name, I had a few possibilities but one of the definitions of worthy is 'deserving of attention' which I think is sums it up fairly well. Thank you for your contribution and good wishes.

In reply to C Witter:

Many thanks!

In reply to montyjohn:

Thank you!

In reply to Peter Simpson:

Grandeur, remoteness, mystique, a fine route up, views.

So Ladhar Bheinn. 

In reply to McHeath: Aye despite having stood on the summit of Ben Lui dozens of times, it continues to draw me back like a moth to a flame. Summit pic from last week, 31st March 2024. 

In reply to Joak:

Beautiful! Last time I saw it was in the distance from the train to Oban (I think) some 30 years ago. Have to get back sometime soon.

In reply to Peter Simpson:

I find it somewhat amusing that many people view crowds and tourists as something that happens to them, rather than acknowledge that we are all part of the crowds and we are all tourists.  Personally, I don't think Yr Wyddfa is sullied by overcrowding.  Its a superb hill irrespective of whether you have to share your enjoyment of it with others.

In reply to McHeath: Cheers. The view on the walk in wisnae too shabby either. I met one other guy on the summit of Lui, then no one else until the summit of Ben Oss. Not bad for a sunny Easter Sunday in the Southern Highlands. That ticked 2 of my boxes....stunning views and solitude. Hope you get back sometime soon and rekindle some old memories, and maybe get round to making some new ones. 

In reply to GrahamD:

It’s better if you don’t visit the summit. But if you want peace and quiet try other far less busy mountains within sight.

In reply to GrahamD:

Yr Wyddfa is indeed a magnificent mountain. I fully agree that it's not sullied by overcrowding. I'd go further to say that I applaud the fact that it has a railway to the summit. It hardly imposes on the more adventurous routes, and anyway, why should that fantastic view be just for the fit and healthy?