UKH

So I am planning a VF trip to the Dolomites this summer, and looking at getting the gear sorted soon. Looking at getting a fairly budget set in case I don't end up using it much, but many of these don't come with a third rest loop, but even if they did I wondered which of the following setups for a rest solution would be the best in your opinions?

1) Petzl connect adjust

2) PAS

3) sling +/- knots

4) quickdraw or alpine draw

5) are there any others ??

I'm tempted to go with a sling through the tie in loops and a screw gate, with 1 or 2 knots in the sling to allow for different lengths. This seems to be the simplest (and cheapest?) system.

Length 240cm or 120cm? What material? Screw gate most appropriate? I think I'll get more use out of a sling as I'm wanting to get into outdoor climbing soon anyway.

I appreciate all options might be suitable but I'm interested in the nerdy differences 🙂 

Cheers

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Caveat: I haven't done any VF in my life, so may be well out here.

But if you're looking for cheap options, 120cm sling and a screw gate should be fine for what you want. Petzl connect would be ideal but you don't need to spend that. You could also get by on just a snapgate, but sometimes a screw gate is more comforting.  The only thing that you might want to think about is clipping into a large metal bar/ring - something like a DMM boa lets you clip into anything, where a super light option might not fit around the metal.

TLDR: 120cm sling with knots, large screw gate krab.

I've, almost never clipped in to rest on an Dolomite VF, couple of times for photos but that's about it. TBH I think the vast majority of VF lanyards do have a clip in point, plus mine you can rest a static load on the tails.

I use a 60cm sling larksfooted to my belay loop with an old (largeish HMS) screwgate to clip in. If the staple is too large for my krab I just wrap the sling round and clip to that, terrible practice as it crossloads the krab, but it's a static load and I'm always backed up by the VF lanyards so not worried about failure.

I can't think of a time in 30 years of doing via ferratas when I've actually needed to hang on the cable. I mean maybe I haven't been trying hard enough? I'd save your money for a few weizen beers at the end of the days.

Sling and large crab has worked for me the past 20 years of VF.

when I've roped kids on a VF, a petzl connect made belaying vertical sections more comfortable 

A couple of QDs is usually fine, daisy chain them to get a longer rest lanyard.  A 60cm sling with a screw gate larks footed onto your harness is also and an elastic band or bit of tape to hold the sling in place around the carabiner stops a big loop forming (which can snag or trip you up) but QDs work better.

Some VF stuff is quite thick so a big opening gate is useful.  If you're going to belay from a rest take a bit more and a sling and screwgates to use a guide mode belay device since belaying off of your harness won't be desirable.

A spare QD for hanging your bag from is very handy especially if you get caught in a traffic jam.

If you're short a couple of QDs can make crossing some bridges easier (extendable hands).

I've rested just once on a Via Ferrata, going up a ladder that was about 40 ft high and slightly over-hanging.  Might have been in Austria somewhere.  That was the only time I've needed to clip in with the lanyard and sit on it.  Going up the ladder, i clipped the short lanyard into the cable and the long one into the side of the ladder.  I remember it being a bit of a faff.

I don't think you need a third sling/connection point.

Use something you have - I've used a 120cm sling (can be clipped through both ends to half the length) or a daisy. As with above though, I've very rarely used it, but its good for increasing confidence for less experienced partners though knowing they can always clip a rung above them

Last year I did the new VF at St Gervais. Sections of the route were extremely strenuous and I was glad I was an experienced climber. I used a quick draw to rest, but assuming being clipped in with two lanyards a Fifi hook would have been perfect as it’s easily removed as you move on. On long wire rope bridges that didn’t have brace cables a pulley on one of the cables would have been of use as the catenary effect was off putting.

Depending on the region, it might be very common or very uncommon to clip in to rest. Some places have long overhangs or steep sections with poor feet where clipping into the cable is normal. The main thing is to make sure you can reach the cable while you're clipped on. Imagine dangling from a 240 sling halfway up an overhang, unable to reach the rock... I'd recommend a 60cm sling larks footed to your harness with a wide opening screwgate, and a knot in the sling to make it easier to reach the wire.

You can hire a VF kit in many of the venues.

Might I just point out to those of you suggesting clipping in with a sling, that should someone do that and they don't just rest on it, but move anywhere above resting, slipping has serious consequences. An adjustable lanyard would be infinitely better, or even just a fixed one. Simond do one for I believ 12 quid. Put a large VF carabiner on it and it becomes a useful thing should you want to belay someone.

You're not wrong, but I think as long as the rule is 'Clip a rung (not the wire) above you and remove it before continuing' you would have to be pretty damn distracted to start climbing above it - you remove it as the same time as you unweight it and theres not much to go wrong

Thanks all so far for so many replies!!

The general consensus seems to be that a simple solution is a large HMS screwgate + a 60/120cm sling. I don't imagine I'd need to use it often, I'd just prefer the security if I want to stop and take photos. I am also travelling with someone who climbs less than me so I expect to be waiting around a fair bit.

Where is safest to clip the HMS to when not on a rung? Belay loop or gear loop? Or does it not matter?

Secondly, some of you mentioned belaying a partner should I want to. I'm assuming for this I'd also need a length of rope - seems potentially excessive as I don't want to be climbing out of either of our capabilities - however, if one were to do this how much rope would you need? I have an XTC but it's not a guide one - what practical difference would this make? Is it just tidier to have the belay plate attached to an anchor instead of my harness? Or is it in fact safer for some reason?

Oh and finally, any difference between a dyneema or nylon sling for this purpose? If it's solely for resting does it matter at all?

I usually clip a 60 round the back - where my chalkbag would be when climbing, but just make sure its snug enough that you can't get a knee in it accidentally! You might be better looping all the way around to a loop nearer the front on the other side. Theres not that much gear when VFing so whatever works for you TBH, have a play 

DMM boa is wide opening and marginally bigger gate-open is Petzl William screwgate. These are the only krabs I've had that reliably clip the "snake" in Dinorwig (Snowdonia's via ferrata 🤣) I'd suggest screwgate over the other gate types as you can treat it like a snaplink at times by leaving open (which is also it's downside)

+1 for Petzl connect adjust, although check if it's "happy" with the big HMS krabs described above, I've only ever used it with smaller krabs that are slightly less chunky diameter metal. The big krabs might? make it grabby especially when lengthening the lanyard

I'd use a length of ~8mm+ climbing rope from the harness and attach a screwgate on a tight overhand bight at the far end. You could adjust this at home to get the perfect length - long enough that you have almost the full extension of your arm to work with (under load of course if using dynamic rope, to account for stretch), and short enough that you aren't having to pull yourself towards it from rest to release tension and un-do the screwate. Though some people prefer this not to be the case so they don't inadvertently ever undo their anchor - as noted above, you don't want to be hanging in thin air by your system, unable to reach the wall.

A large carabiner is obviously the other suggestion.

I don't think there are any wrong answers, and frankly a chain of QDs will do the job.  But I prefer the climbing rope solution over slings as it has some small subjective advantages: the rope can be dynamic if you like for a bit of softness in the anchoring, the thicker single strand coming from your harness is less prone to hooking on stuff than two strands of a sling, and I'm (maybe incorrectly) wary of knotted slings, feeling more secure on rope as it easier to spot abrasion/melt. A tight overhand bight on a rope will also tend to do a better job of rigidly holding the screwgate in correct orientation than slippery slings do.

This proposal is essentially a poor man's Petzl Connect, old-style without any adjustment.

What I do with my son is I carry a sling and an HMS, with 5-10m of 7.5mm dynamic rope with a locking carabiner tied onto the end of it. I flake the rope into my pack with the karabiner pocking out of the top and clipped into a shoulder strap. If there's a tricky section, i clip him to the rope  pulling the rope out as I go, then I sling a post, and belay with a friction hitch. It's really fast.

Yep, you can do that. But then again why build in an obvious failure mode? Even a factor 2 with a solid mass is limited to around 9kN on a fixed lanyard, so you don't need to worry about moving up...

I have seen people using them with the Petzl Vertigo carabiner which has a massive gate open dimension.

'Resting' on a Via Ferrata…what is the world coming to?

I've done quite a few VFs in Catalunya with my (non-climbing) missus and she won't even consider resorting to 'aid', instead wrapping an arm around a rung if she’s tiring😂.

Seriously though, as others have said, either a quickdraw or short larks-footed sling will be fine to rest on rungs. The most important thing with VF is that if you find yourself struggling, never, ever get into a situation where you only have one lanyard attached to the backup cable.
 

Pete.

Hanging off an arm crooked over a cable and pumping whilst adjusting the sling could result in the small fall you’re worried about. The resting sling is always loaded until you un clip so no chance of 2 inch “fall”

I’ve soled many E5,s and on sight up to E4 in years gone by, but on VF,s graded top end ED you may well end up resting and be thankful. This is what my world has now come to.

Good on you Phil. I’m pretty much in that very same boat!

Glad to hear you’re still keeping active…

Pete.

Each to their own, but an adjustable rope lanyard is actually really easy to adjust. And quite honestly, if you're pumping out because you have to adjust a lanyard, maybe do an easier route? VF is no place to be falling at any time...

I’d typically take around 10-15m of rope I’ve retired from lead climbing, but no visible damage. Depends on the Via Ferrata you intend to do. One where there was a 30m overhang my wife was glad of my half rope from where I was secure above.

I clip the sling round back of harness with a few twists / loops in it, to keep it out the way when not in use. Oh the sling for resting, you still keep both crabs from the lanyard clipped to the VF cable.  Above the highest bolt securing cable to rock that is easily in reach.

60cm should be plenty, but you can always shorten a 120cm.

I'd use a gear loop, so less dangle - mind your knees, as WWFFJ said.

I've got a 9mm x 30m rope. Useful as a confidence rope on hard/steep/strenuous sections, but also handy if the cable is damaged or buried in snow. Easiest setup for belaying is sling a screwgate onto a suitable hard point and use an Italian hitch.

Thanks for your useful reply

60cm nylons slings are a few quid so that's ideal. I got into a rabbit hole trying to work out whether a boa with a captive bar to clove hitch through would be useful to stabilise the system and prevent cross loading, but in the end I think it just limits the flexibility of the krab to use for other purposes (and just costs more) and is completely overkill for a static piece of equipment that as many others have mentioned will be used seldom I imagine, only for photos requiring 2 hands

I will have a think about bringing a rope. As it's both of our first time going VF I think we will be sticking to the easier stuff and saving more serious routes for another visit. Now just to decide where to base ourselves!

My Petzl VF rig has a crab on a loop on the box containing the stitching. I’ve used this to hang on loads of times to take photos where I need two hands. I thought most rigs had this attatchment  For the last three years I have also carried the Petzl connect and found this very useful on ferrata and also on bolted routes  

Talking of resting, my next VF project includes a long overhanging down climb. Think I may have to work on my core.