UKH

sorry, i know there has been a recent discussion about this, but it ended about as clear as mud. the outdoorshop has a summit raider on sale for 375 which balances the price a bit, and it is lighter than the mk1xl. i know integral designs has a really good reputation, but is it worth it for the weight? how do the attchable porches compare? and is the summit raider reliable, having seen the mk1xl, it seems bomber, as do the biblers, but the idea of the goretex seems like it will be battered a bit more easily? ( i say this having not seen it.) any replies would be helpful, although it would be good to have first hand experience from people who have made the same decision rather than hypothetical discussions about materials. however if anyone really thinks the goretex lark is a no no, please say. many thanks in advance, james

In reply to jimmyv1:trying to help but might not! gore exchange lite does work, but DO NOT ventilate like with other single skin tents, using like this you do get less condensation, porch on integral designs is better as it zips on OD porch has big gaps, not applicable as dont take porch to altitude, IMO. have used OD gore tents but not at high altitude, up to 4000 in alps, without porches , both are a pain if snowing due to door, durability fine for what i did, dont know what else i can say as not used integral tent just seen them and porch is good which allows to vent, or OD porch has gaps, dont need to vent. sorry if i confused you!

In reply to gear boy: thanks, can you just explain thr ventilation thing a bit more please, how is ventilation different? also if the tent became my work horse tent, do you think goretex is less durable in that sense? please ignore what i said above about first hand experience...any comments welcome. cheers in advance, james

In reply to jimmyv: ok i'll try, goretex only allows moisture vapour to pass through the membrane, like toddtex and others. therefore you have to ventilate the tent/bivi to allow oxygen in, otherwise you can suffocate yourself/ wake up with a headache, have a lot of condensation. exchange lite gore-tex used by outdoor designs and now terra nova( not sure about gemini tent) is a gas permeable membrane, it allows oxygen and co2 to pass through, therefore by not ventilating you help create an imbalance in temp. or humidity inside tent/bivi this helps push moisture through, less condensation occurs and you still have enough oxygen. the only fabrics that do this are exchange lite gore-tex and event, as far as i am aware no-one does an event tent. durability? how long does your gore jkt last? its uv resistant, and fairly heavy face fabric so should be ok, but cant say as only had it for a year, not faded yet. also as extra notes OD are now doing extreme version of tent with tie in points so you dont trail ropes in through door, as to integral designs, not much is known about it in the uk, fabric is same as bibler etc i think which is good as everyone used it, could be a case of fire retardency though, for US sales. porch is better on bibler or integral tent, fabric is better on OD and poss. terra nova, if same fabric, does that help?

In reply to jimmyv1:
Perhaps buying the OD raider here for 400 Euro? (excl 8,50 Euro transport to GB)
http://www.globetrotter.de/de/shop/rubrik.php?k_id=06&GTID=ebcc73f69264...

scroll the page down...

In reply to gear boy:

>as far as i am aware no-one does an event tent

http://www.integraldesigns.com/tents-frame.htm

they do eVent tent and bivi, how cool's that, but how does eVent compare to Gore exchange, who knows? (but eVent is supose to be more breathable than XCR right? what aboout exchange?

In reply to BONG: oooh thats new!, now that does bring in new light. as to eVENT vs gore exchange lite should be very similar as they are both open pore type membranes, and therefore more breathable than other ptfe membranes

In reply to gear boy:


so exchange has no PU to stop contamination like eVent? So why do they not use them to make jackets then so even more breathable than paclite?

finally tried on the Lowe alpine Elite jacket (eVent) yesterday, truely amazing fabric (puting on xcr jks in shops in the summer make me sweat after 2 mins, and event felt a lot better) but the fit just felt like the strangest thing, maybe it just didn't want to fit me....kind of baggy and kind of short, very upset - I wish arcteryx use eVent, their jks fit me best, if they do, I'll buy one even if I have to sell my house to get enough money!

In reply to BONG:

good question............
they do have an anti contamintion in them, read up on the bumph you can find on event, kind of incorporated into the membrane, chemically an all, but you should know about that!

alternative event jkts that may be nicer to wear than lowe, could be.. montane superfly £175, rab latok £240, or rab latok alpine £160

now if jimmy wants any more info lets turn it back to the tent question shall we

In reply to jimmyv1: hi, that link is really good, it works out at 250 pounds. however i still would appreciate it if someone could tell me how they perform, like is it a summit tent type thing, or can i use it regularly like i know people do with the integral designs. that is a priority. also the porch, it would be good to get one, how much do they cost and even though they are not zip sealed, would it work out if you were using it for a basecamp in a storm? in regrds to weatherproofness. i know all their other stuff is high quality, so i can not imagine that it would not b the same for the tents, however lots of people must have used them and can comment? heres hoping, james

In reply to jimmyv1: also, how does cooking work inside the goretex tent, if it does not have the vents like other tents, or does gore-tex exchange sort this out too. i know th eoption is to open the door a little, but this would suck if you are melting snow for hours on end...

In reply to me again:

>now if jimmy wants any more info lets turn it back to the tent question shall we

I always get too carried away and hyjack other's thread without knowing....hehe..

But he does seem a bit lost wanting a single skin tent for normal conditions and the fabric to cope while cooking without venting.......if he finds one, maybe we have the holy grail fabric for tents, bivis, waterproofs......yet again, I'd sell my house to buy that if it exsists!

In reply to BONG: thanks, integral designs, has vents so you don^t have to open the door, OD does not, so that would suggest you would have to open the door: problem sometimes or, the fabric does it??? , and i think you tend to see many people using their alpine tent at the base of crags because they can^t afford two and i have met people who have taken their ID tent to tropical climates...money efficiency. at least thats what i^ve noticed.

In reply to jimmyv 1:

integral designs, has vents so you don^t have to open the door, OD does not

thats because it'd be dangerous not to vent using the (normal)ID, simply because the different fabric used. Of course you can vent by opening the door with the OD but then that defeats the point of using exchange - temp in the tent lowers and the fabric becomes even more less breathable. The way I see it is that the eVent and exchange tents are superiour because they don't need to be vented, but nothing, even the thinnest layer of nylon will not cope with you burning hydrocarbons and evaporating water inside the tent without venting.

I think the reason why people aren't posting answers to your question is simply beacause most people have 2 skin tents, of those who have 1skin tents most use them for HA, and those who use it in normal conditions don't find them that great.

What I am not able to comprehend is what if you cook inside eVent or exchange without venting, let the condensation build up and drip, and see if everything dries by the morning.

If you have to cook inside then I think a tent with a top vent like the ID is a lot more suitable. And since you can get that in eVent too I think thats the best you can get - that means whatever people tell you - the ID eVent will probably cope best - yet still no way good enough for condensation not to build up, but if you have to have a single skin then you just have to cope and learn how to use it - what else can you do once you have the best and its still not good enough!?

In reply to BONG: thanks

In reply to jimmyv1:

>I think thats the best you can get

thats just in terms of breathability, gas permeability and ventilation effectiveness though - ignoring weight, duribilty and ease of use.

In reply to jimmyv1: if you are in the uk why dont you try calling outdoor designs and ask them the questions you have about the breathability of the tent, surely they have sponsored guys who use them, on their website it talks about that nutty guy thomas humar using one, it may be the only way of answering your concerns.