UKH

For those that have used both fabrics, is there any noticeable performance differences between the two?. Is gore-tex pro noticeably more breathable?.

Considering buying a ME Makalu jacket for a winter hardshell with just uses 3 layer gore-tex or spending £100 more on a gore-tex pro model.

In reply to AlexUKH:

Hi Alex

Ive used both for hillwalking and winter low grade gullies etc.

I’ve currently got the ME MRT jacket which is 80 d thickness I think.

Its certainly more robust than a 3 layer and I haven’t noticed any difference in breathability.

If it’s going to get a lot of abrasion then I would go proshell with pit zips and use them.

In reply to AlexUKH:

My Gore Tex Pro ME Tupilak, which uses 80d fabric, has proved to be very durable - now into its 4th year of heavy use. Recommended.

In reply to Dave the Rave:

That's what I suspected: an increase in durability but no increase in breathability. From what I've seen both fabrics tend to have an RET <9. 

I presume you were comparing two shells of equal denier?.

In reply to WildAboutWalking:

Yes, that is the other jacket I'm considering but I think it's only really worth the extra money if I'm using it for climbing which I'm not.

The makalu has 75 denier and can be had for half the price.

In reply to AlexUKH:

I'm not understanding this. A goretex pro with an 80 denier outer is a reference to the face fabric weight, no?

So unless one is comparing a 3 layer garment with a similar 80 denier face fabric it's apples vs oranges.

I thought the difference with pro was that it a slightly different (and infinitesimally thin) membrane, nowt to do with the outer fabric.

In reply to Siward:

Gore do keeping changing names of products but as far as I know Goretex Pro is 3 layer, as is the next fabric down which at least last year they were I think confusingly calling just "GORE-TEX" (classic Goretex maybe?).

Only when you get to paclite is it 2 or mayo "2.5" layers.

In reply to AlexUKH:

I have a jacket in pro, and I like it a lot, mostly for the durability, and the fact it works very reliably. I don't have a regular goretex jacket... well I do , but it's 30+ year old 3 layer and a paclite jacket .  I use it a lot of days, and I've never regretted dropping the cash

You're after maximum breathability - what are you going to be using it for? Just walking? England, scotland? What will you wear under it ?

In reply to Siward:

Yes. Denier is a measure of the effective diameter of the fibres used to weave the fabric.

In reply to Siward:

I think it is to do with a different scrim; the material used for the protective inner face of the 3-layer laminate fabric.

In reply to AlexUKH:

Impossible to tell, without the exact detailed type of Gore-Tex. Not being helped by Gore's utterly stupid marketing strategy of changing the membrane name randomly (e.g. Windstopper to Infinium to Windstopper again).

There are currently four kinds of Gore-Tex Pro, each varying greatly in their properties:

1. the old classic one, still sold in many old‑stock jackets.
2. Pro More Breathable
3. Pro Most Rugged
4. Pro Stretch

Some jackets even combined the three new ones in different areas, i.e. Most Rugged on the shoulders and Stretch on the armpits.

Anyway, unless you really need Gore-Tex, I'd buy something else without ePTFE, or wait for their new PFC‑free ePTFE‑free membrane. PFCs are a growing, world‑wide prevalent environmental and health problem, and Gore has been one of the bigger culprits there.

In reply to wbo2:

I've got a ME firefox which I use for hillwalking which uses a gore tex active shell which is very breathable. 

It's only 30 denier though and would like something a bit more bombproof for hillwalking in harsher conditions in winter.

In reply to Frank R.:

Another reason I would consider the Makalu: it uses a EPE, PFC free, membrane 

In reply to AlexUKH:

Comparing two similar weight and spec coats which I’ve owned. These were the ME Changabang 2000 version which lasted 20 years, and previous to that  Sprayway TL Torridon from 1993 ish.

In reply to AlexUKH:

Given the price difference, I will certainly consider the Makalu when I do eventually need to replace the Tupilak (although I am hoping to get another year or two out of it). Prices seem to have shot up in recent years, and gone are the days when you can easily pick up a bargain (I paid £265 for the Tupilak from The Climber's Shop in a sale).

In reply to AlexUKH:

Just spotted the Tupilak for £315.99 on the LD Mountain Centre website, only available in Medium though. 

In reply to AlexUKH:

Not my place to tell you what you should or shouldn't buy. Personally I own 2 shells, one like what you've you have for mountain scrambling and hiking in all weathers and a full spec jacket for winter climbing when I'm using equipment. Do you find your Firefox lacks somehow?

In reply to AlexUKH:

Indeed.

In reply to Frank R.: Well Gore have always sold the material in different weights, dernier, and other material differences so why should pro be very different ? As long as people label what it is.

Anyway, to clarify. I have a v. old 3 ply goretex jacket, a 10 year old paclite and a 3 (?) year old pro jacket that has a few hundred days on it.  It was a lot of cash, but I am very happy with it.  I use it for moderatley active stuff (climbing, mountaineering) and low activity stuff (fieldwork, easy walks) and it works well enough for both.  Breathability is fine. If I'm going running I use something else.

Whether you get pro or not depends on what you do, expect to do and so on.  The new , 'cleaner' Gore materials are appealing, but I won't need a jacket for a long time I think, and the existing jacket is already made and someone is going to buy it.

How often are you going to be using this?   If it's every other weekend maybe, and only in the winter, then perhaps get the non pro jacket. If it's a lot, then maybe the pro.