UKH

Can't imagine I'm the first climber to be apprehensive about this. Regular (male) poster, posting anonymously. Any thoughts appreciated.

I've been with my partner for 10+ years now, and I always said I'm ambivalent about having children. Partner now mid 30s and really making noises about wanting a child, which I understand. However, over the years I've come to realise that I definitely don't want a child.

I don't want the financial burden - I hate my job and don't want to be trapped. I can just sack it off with no real consequence as things stand.  

I don't want the time burden - I don't have enough time to do the things I want to, and having a child would surely make this worse

I don't want the emotional burden - I'm terrible at coping with my emotions as it is. I'm quite depressed. I can't imagine what it must be like to be responsible for a child, I feel sick just thinking about it.

I could add a bit in about whether it's even fair on a child to be born into a fairly bleak world, with one parent who doesn't want them!

But I love my partner and want to make her happy.  I'm almost resigned to a life of unhappiness anyway, so just go for it?

Thanks

In reply to FirstPinnacleRib:

It sounds like you shouldn't BUT have you seen your GP about your depression?

In reply to FirstPinnacleRib:

Hey. I really feel for you. At the end of the day you 100% need to talk to your partner about this. Unfortunately noone can really tell you the right answer because this is ultimately just about what's right for you. It is totally OK to not want kids. (And I say this as someone who's your partner's demographic and perspective, though my experience is that almost all the other 30-something climbers I know, of both genders, don't want kids).

However, if you're not already, i would really encourage you prioritising getting some support with the depression. What you say about being resigned to a life of unhappiness really isn't ok. Obviously that doesn't solve the kid issue but depression can definitely make anything like this completely overwhelming, as well as making you feel like your own needs don't matter.

I hope you find a way forward that supports your health and happiness as well as hers. 

In reply to FirstPinnacleRib:

Is it a deal breaker? Will she stay with you and live childless and be happy? or does her need to have kids outweigh her need for you? This is important as it could be a case of will you be happier single with no kids, or together with a  child.

Then why haven't you? Perhaps get a new/diffrent job?

From experience, (I have a 2 and a half year old) Yes your personal time goes out the window for a while. I'm starting to get some back now but if you're serious about sports etc and training on a regular basis then that's going to go out the window unless you have a very understanding partner. And by understand I mean willing to do all the hard work while you go off having fun. You'll find even when you are allowed out you'll feel guilty about leaving her stuck in with the kids.

In some respects, a child in this scenario can be a good thing. All your personal emotional shit gets put on hold and you're given a simple and easy to understand overriding objective to life, that being "keep this small human alive and well". You no longer have the luxury of dwelling on your own issues as there is always something that needs doing in the here and now to keep you present.

The world is great, yeah it'll be a bit warm by the time they are middle-aged but I've every confidence that human civilisation will continue to prosper over the next 100 years. You will want them, fathers' relationships with children are different to mothers', you don't have that automatic loving bond they do. But it is something that builds over time unless you are truly a hateful person who resents their own child's existence because it got in the way of their hobbies. but I suspect that is unlikely. 

It's up to you at the end of the day, I'd come back around the to is a deal breaker question. Will your life be better or worse overall? Will your partners' life be better or worse? How much sacrifice are you willing to make, will it even be a sacrifice in the end given the possible outcome of having no kids? No one can predict the future of course, your life might be crap in either scenario or it might be great regardless. 

In reply to FirstPinnacleRib:

I'm going to give you complete honest opinion. 

I was in the exact same situation as you ( apart from the job, I love mine). I never wanted children for the exact same reasons as you mentioned. After much sole searching and talking to my wife I did in the end agree to have  a kid but I made it very clear that although I was willing to reduce my climbing I was not willing to give it up and that continuing the hobby was vitally important to me. Needless to say as someone who reluctantly agreed to have kids and compromised on having just one fate came along and we ended up with twins.

They are now 18months old and at times it has been tough and to be honest I've not changed my mind about having kids and stand by all of my previous concerns and worries which were all completely justified, at times I have felt I've made a terrible mistake although I do certainly love them and they do also bring me quite a bit of joy. My wife has been amazing in supporting me to continue climbing and with team work I still get out climbing and walking quite a bit, although not quite as much as before but I'm certainly not unhappy. 

In conclusion having  kids doesn't mean you have to stop getting out, just that it takes a bit more planning but also on the flip side those feelings of apprehension don't just suddenly disappear upon them being born ( at least not for me). 

In reply to FirstPinnacleRib:

That's both really sad and probably not so uncommon.

Agree with the needs to see and GP and talk to your partner. I'm sure there will be lots of work to do to get to where a decision is made and settled, and that work will be hard for everyone involved. Ultimately there are probably only three likely routes and the timeframe to make the decision is limited by biology, so it can't be put off for long.

1) You have a child together - need to work through each of your issues, probably starting with depression

2) You don't have a child but stay together - need to work through her likely sense of loss and unfulfilled life and potential resentment of you for putting her in that position (I've seen this with friends and wouldn't recommend it)

3) You both pursue the lives you want but this means splitting up. This is the option that would need to happen sooner rather than later to give her the best chance of moving on.

I can't see any other options - can you? I hope you find a good way through.

In reply to FirstPinnacleRib:

I think what the others have said, focus on yourself and your own happiness first because being resigned to a life of unhappiness is not a good place to be.  Talk. Keep talking.

I never wanted kids and felt like an absolute black sheep because all my family have a tendency for lots of kids from an early age.  All I ever really took away from that was seeing my relatives stressed, skint, constantly running around and never getting a chance to do anything apart from raise them and I wanted more than that.

Always felt 'time selfish', that I would never be able to devote the necessary time to a kiddie, so it felt unfair to even consider it.  I eventually got married to a girl with a 7 year old and became an instant (and really terrified) step dad.  Eventually realised that she was amazing enough to fill my life and that I probably couldn't produce anything half as brilliant.  Then came the grandkids and that 'time selfish' thing completely vanished.  I would gladly give up all of my spare time to be with them. Nothing compares to them.

You sit there and spend time with them (in pain, usually) on the floor arranging dolls and tea cups, eating food with them, listen to them tell you everything from complete garbage, to what they've been doing, to questions they have about everything and you realise that you are their absolute rock, and they trust you with every ounce of their being and they have you as part of their absolute fabric of their reality and their lives.  As a result, they take you completely for granted (and it feels great)

All I'm really saying is that it's amazing how much of a 'not really liking kids' to 'I am the ultimate dad / granda" person I changed into over the space of several years.  They really do bend your heads.  Don't be like me and confuse other peoples kids with kids whose lives you have a stake in.

Didn't think I'd need to add this but based on previous posts, if your (or perhaps moreover, anyone else's) plan is to have kids then lump your partner with the work so you can continue climbing but she can't, please, for goodness' sake, cease procreation with immediate effect.

In reply to FirstPinnacleRib:

If it helps, your thoughts and feelings on the matter sound very similar to mine, both at your age (I'm guessing early/mid 30s), and now (late 50s).

Whatever you do, don't “just go for it and be resigned to a life of unhappiness”. That's not fair on you, your partner or any potential children.

There's no 'good' solution to this, IMHO, as you really can't find a compromise on what is really a binary issue. You need a serious talk with your partner about this, as either of you conceding 'defeat' and sticking together is highly likely to end up in resentment and recriminations in the future.

Best of luck, however things turn out. 

In reply to FirstPinnacleRib:

You really need to talk to your partner about this, and potentially seek professional help regarding depression issues? The worse position you could possible be in (for everyone involved) is to say nothing now and then have kids, as all that resentment/ill feeling will quickly surface, and which point its too late to back out.....

Lots of people (men especially) I guess are apprehensive about having kids, particularly when it looks like your free time to climb or do whatever are going to be curtained, but I think you really need to be at least on the same page as your other half with wanting them.

I think I was fairly unsure about it, but never thought I definitely don't want kids, more concerns that I/we couldn't cope with it. 

Having had two of the little buggers, now teenagers, I can confirm that the early years can be a massive slog - its mentally, physically, and financially bloody hard work. Free time is non-existent, and its very hard to see light at the end of the tunnel. I can remember times when it felt like all the pleasure had been sucked out of life, with a mundane merry-go-round of work and childcare while being utterly knackered and skint. 

However, its also easily by far the most rewarding and joyful thing I've ever done, I love my kids more than anything, they have brought me a massive amount of happiness, and I really cant imagine life without them. Its great to watch them grow up, become their own people, reach all those milestone in life. Now they are older and less reliant on us, I'm gaining free time back, while also getting to encourage them in their own interests, take them climbing, watch them play sports, start school etc, which is all fantastic. I even pine for them being small again, as you realise (for a while) you are in a uniquely privilege position of being the absolute centre of the universe for them, and that is an amazing thing to experience. 

I suspect lots of people have only discovered how fulfilling it is to have a family when actually thrown into having them, so you might be pleasantly surprised.

However, if you are adamant you don't want them, don't do it just to keep your partner happy, as everyone will end up in a bad place.

In reply to FirstPinnacleRib:

You're not alone

I guess not married (nor am I after 20+ years). Time to move on, let them free

depends on your payscale but its not a massive burden. Why be in a job you hate, sack it off now.

Are you sure, how much time do need?

As already said, sort this out, pretty sure your partner doesn't want to deal with it either

Its not that bad

She wont be happy if your not, certainly not for long anyway

In reply to FirstPinnacleRib:

Just my opinion follows 

Repeat, disclaimer, this is just what I would do if I was you and in your shoes and situation (and I am not)

I am going to be horribly blunt 

Do not have kids

I have a kid and it was a massive super-expensive very demanding thing, a 30-year ongoing commitment, though wonderful for me. IMO having kids drains away so much time and energy

Just for me remember 

Tons of luck whatever you do and all the best. I feel for you 

In reply to FirstPinnacleRib:

Just to re-iterate my point about seeing a GP: if you are depressed you may think it's too much bother or you aren't worth it.

It can be a bit of a bother but there is help available, you will be assessed and offered various therapies and maybe pills. There might be a bit of a wait but when help comes it will be worth it. Consider changing your GP if there are any barriers put in your way. I assume your partner wants to help you - does she know how you feel, she might be able to put more energy than you into hassling doctors etc. If not her then a friend could do the same.

The whole question of kids is irrelevant until you are getting care for your state of mind. 

You are worth it.

100% agree. Having kids to make someone else happy is a terrible terrible idea.

In reply to FirstPinnacleRib:

I'll reiterate what others have said about talking with your partner about this and getting (more) help with the depression. That will be colouring your judgement.

I shared, still do to a degree, most of your concerns about having children. I have two now (both still pre-school). I won't lie, both were somewhat reluctant choices on my part though not regretted and I've grown to love them. It's really tough if you're not feeling like you're in the right place to make the decision, especially with a clock ticking it can feel like you're just rolling dice and hoping for the best!

It's perfectly possible to let a baby close your life down completely, the impact of their arrival, especially the first is shocking. Equally it's perfectly possible once you've re-found your feet to let one open up new aspects of life while you and your family find ways to make time for the bits of your old lives you still value.

If you don't have family support around you and your partner will need to build a really strong network of friends who are at the same point in life. Don't neglect that bit. It doesn't substitute for family, especially when it comes to free childcare, but you will need that network.

Pre-school childcare is expensive (see family point).

Good luck.

jk

In reply to FirstPinnacleRib:

I'll try and give some honest thoughts, although it may not be pretty.....

10+ years together signifies a solid and stable, loving, committed relationship, which is great. However, with your partner in her mid 30s, realistically, her window of fertility is starting to close and she's clearly keenly aware of that, and expressing that need and that anxiety to you. Even if you were to start trying now, there's no guarantee she'd get pregnant immediately, and with every passing year the chances of a smooth pregnancy and birth start to worsen, and also your vitality and ability to deal with the exhaustion and stress of keeping a baby alive will worsen. That puts a lot of emotional pressure on her (and subsequently onto you of course).

That's not to say it's unmanageable by any means. I had my two relatively late, at 37 and 39 (wife was 33, 35) and it was OK, but the idea of another now at 45 is just unthinkable. Youth helps.

We never 'wanted' kids. But we didn't 'not want' them either. And we eventually ran out of excuses to put it off any longer. i.e. we could have another year or two or three of having fun, cool trips etc....but at that point it would just be putting it off for no real gain. Piss or get off the pot.

I heard a statistic recently that 80% of women who are childless after their fertility window closes, did not intend to be so. Life just happens, and for a woman, you have less time than you think. That's pretty heart-breaking. 

As Compost asked above, if you stay together and don't have kids, will the relationship last, as you risk that potential resentment and heartbreak....? Obviously I have no opinion on that, as it's up to you guys. It's really harsh, but it's just the harsh physical reality.  If the answer is 'no' then separating asap so she can move on and find a potential partner who wants kids is the road ahead. But there are no guarantees there, and she could end up still without kids, without a partner and without you. If 'yes', and you can both agree on a fulfilling life without kids then fine. If 'maybe' then you're taking the risk of future unhappiness. Maybe it would be OK, maybe not.... As I'm writing this it just feels so stark, but it looks like the harsh reality of your situation. 

It took me about six months to grieve the passing of my former life after my first child was born. I found it really tough. Part of my personal growth and development as a human being, and as a climber, let alone as a parent has been realising and integrating the reality that you will never do 'all the things' and it's a fool's errand to try. 'You can do anything you want, but you can't do everything you want' is one way of putting it. Letting go of the idea that you can do 'all the things' is actually really liberating. Becoming a parent makes that realisation unavoidable. Or at least you avoid it at the cost to your, and your family's happiness. 

The secret bit is that you can start to want other things. Other things can start to make you happy. It might seem like a Jedi mind trick at first, a 'cope' at worst, but it is possible that children could increase your fulfilment and joy. Probably not your happiness, as so much of parenting young children is f*****g tiring, depressing, boring.... But that can change as you change, as you become more selfless, and on a practical level, as they get older, and more able to do more fun stuff.

But another observation: you can try, but it's not their responsibility to be into the stuff you're into. I want my kids to be reading my guidebooks when they're older and begging me to take them on a Classic Rock tour of the UK etc..... but that might just be a daft dream. It might be that they'll never really care about climbing. And that's OK. I just want them to be into something, and we'll see what that is as they try more things and follow their own interests.

The alternative is, you know your own mind, you're sure you don't want kids, have no desire to go down that road. That's totally fine and all the above is just not relevant to you. That's fine. Sounds like you're being honest with yourself about what motivates you, and what you feel your capacities are. I'm just trying to expound a bit on what it looks like from the other side. 

I'm totally unqualified to address this side of things, although as others have said, this probably needs addressing first in your life, child or no child.

Having a child if you really, truly don't want one is not a good idea. Not good for you, not good for your partner, and definitely not good for the child.

See above. 

All I'd add is that climbing and outdoors stuff is flipping amazing. Life-derangingly so. I've built my life around it to a pretty big degree. But it's not all there is to life.  My gravestone isn't going to read: 'here lies Chris. He was a competent VS leader.' It's more likely to read: 'here lies Chris. He had two kids, and they finally wore him out'.

I'm trying not to be an advocate for fatherhood in this post. I think there's a risk of 'stealth marketing' from parents. I always used to feel that people encouraging the having of children were just trying to get you into their club to 'share in the misery'... or something like that. So, even in the best of circumstance I would never encourage someone to have kids. I think that decision really needs to come from some sort of intrinsic motivation. Building your life around climbing is nothing compared to the life derangement of starting a family, so that s**t is on you    

I guess I'm just trying to say 'it's not all bad'. 

Good luck. This sounds like a very difficult situation for you and your partner. I hope you guys can find a path forward that works for you both. 

In reply to FirstPinnacleRib:

Definately speak to your partner.

Don't do what I did and stick your head in the sand hoping things will turn out for the best.

I specifically told my now ex partner that it was not the right time to bring kids into the relationship - for various reasons.

She then went and and cut her progesterone implant out of her arm without my knowledge.

She then got pregnant.

We then got pressurised to get married by her parents.

We then got divorced.

She wanted my name on the mortgage until kids finished university as she didnt want to move out the house (had over 200k equity in it), with young children this seems to be the de facto position - so I walked away and she got to keep the lot, not including half my pension, 12k lump sum spousal maintenance for her.

And now I have a new partner I barely get to see my kids and she wont let them stay over as that way she maximises her child maintenance claim.

Everything changes when the kids come along and it doesn't necessarily result in a stronger relationship.

You both need to want it.

When it all goes wrong like this it isn't going to help your dression.

In reply to FirstPinnacleRib:

Everyone is different, but I highly suspect that even though you don't want children now, if you decide to proceed, once they are born you will feel different and your priorities will change.

You won't have time or money. You will be dependent on your salary. Your concerns are all very valid.

I had similar concerns, but not as strong as you I don't think, but I decided to go for it because I didn't went to get to an older stage in life to then massively regret not having children. I knew that if I committed to having children, it doesn't matter how bad the problems are, I've committed to it and I'm stubborn so I'll dam well see it through.

If you are flakey in nature and like the ability to run away, and don't plan on changing that, children are a terrible idea. They just don't fit in with this mentality.

You will love your children, and the problems you list won't be your top priority if you have them.

You have to decide if you want this change in your nature forced upon you or not.

If you decided to do it for your partner, you need to get emotionally on board or it's just not going to work.

If you argue now, you will argue ten time more if you have children. You need to be able to communicate with your partner and be a rock solid couple if you choose to have kids.

In reply to FirstPinnacleRib:

I am a 42 year old woman who has decided not to have children. It's absolutely ok not to want children, and you are certainly not the only person to be apprehensive about the idea.

However, in this case, it sounds like a lot of your reasons are rooted in depression, and I echo the advice of others to seek help and support before you make a decision.

It may be that when completely healthy you still feel that you don't want children, and that's ok. However, you'll be more confident about your decision, and you'll be better able to discuss it rationally with your partner.

Finally, it's worth discussing how you are feeling with your partner now if you can - if nothing else, it might help her to understand why you are having difficulty making a decision at the moment.

In reply to steveej:

Bloody hell. I thought stealthing was sexual assault? This seems essentially the same. 

In reply to Queen of the Traverse:

I did say that to my solicitor at the time, even sent her some articles on it.  Her response was, 'that's very interesting'

In reply to FirstPinnacleRib:

You need to speak to friends and family about this situation. They know you. Randomers on UKC do not. Speaking to a healthcare professional would be a good idea too.

Having said that, as a randomer, I'd say you have two reasonable choices; a) have a child and cope with the consequences, b) tell your partner in clear terms that you won't have a child with her and cope with the consequences.

Stringing someone along with non-committal noises is not something you should be doing, it will become a constant source of stress in your relationship and in the end it will come down to a) or b) anyway, only the longer you put it off, the more negative those consequences will likely be, particularly because of her age and the length of your relationship.

But every earthquake has its humanitarian rescue mission. If you do have a child, you'll end up loving it anyway, even if you can't believe it now (biology will make you its *itch). You can think about changing your job to make that part of your life better (sounds like you should do anyway tbh), maybe move closer to some grandparents if they can be persuaded to take a pretty active role in child rearing, maybe easier if they are retired. If you don't have the child and the relationship ends, you will find someone else, it will take time and again, you won't believe it now but it will happen....

And remember, 100% of your ancestors managed to deal with child rearing... why should you be any different?

In reply to FirstPinnacleRib:

If you definitely do not want children you should not have them.

If your partner really does, then you need to go your separate ways.

Tough stuff.

In reply to henwardian:

They also managed to deal with plague, famine, pestilence, war, genocide and all sorts of other things the OP might want to avoid. Also I wouldn't count on 'biology' magically kicking in.

I think the general consensus is the OP firstly needs to look after himself, he seems to be in a very dark place. However it would be wrong to assume that not wanting children is just a symptom of depression and can be 'cured'.

In reply to FirstPinnacleRib:

Won’t repeat what others have said, but want to share my experience. My children are now 24 and 22. We went ‘full-on’ in raising our kids, by that I mean we sacrificed a lot of our stuff and did almost everything for them/us. At one point, my daughter did dancing 5 times a week (plus extras) and son did footie 3 or 4 times a week. Weekends camping as a family etc., family holidays etc. And none of this TV in their bedrooms nonsense, one TV and they get to choose almost everything until they’re in bed.  I did start ice climbing about 5 years after eldest was born - one or two weeks abroad, and would train like a nutter a few months before and loose weight and get strong so I did climb plenty good routes.  As they got older, we did get some of ‘our time’ back. But there are still plenty of pressures and strains. I know some folk who didn’t go as ‘full on’ as we did, and they get more of ‘their time’.  Wouldn’t swap it for anything though.  I’m 57. 

In reply to lowersharpnose:

I think you've summed it up really.

In reply to FirstPinnacleRib:

I met my now husband when I was 18, he always said he never wanted kids which was fine as I was way too young.

Early 30s I felt broody, but like yourself wasn't sure I was able/ready/willing to take on the responsibility. Also the nature of his work would have meant me effectively being a single mum for weeks at a time, which I certainly didn't want.

Spoke with husband who was still adamant he didn't want children, lots of heartfelt thoughts about biological time clock, being tied to him with a mortgage (love) etc. Still unsure if I wanted kids so never considered leaving him but obviously doing so gave no guarantees of finding a suitable Father or a painless fertility journey. 

Now 45 and yes I have regrets, but I also know people who have given everything to conceive and been unsuccessful - sometimes life is cruel. However one thing I can say with absolute certainty is that had a 'happy accident' occurred, I would have embraced it (with or without his support!).

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In reply to Ridge:

Agreed. I don't know why on earth so many seem to be trying to persuade the OP into having kids as if they've struggled so he should too.

As a 35yo woman who doesn't have kids (but wants them), the primary thing I'd want from my partner is honesty (for the horrible obvious reasons of biological clock etc), but I'd also want them to be healthy and happy as well as me.  

OP, not wanting kids doesn't negate your love for your partner. In fact, being scared of having this conversation suggests you may care about her an awful lot. But unfortunately it does mean you need to have that brave talk, whilst also perhaps building your own support network around you. If this ends up meaning parting ways, as much as it might not feel like it with depression, you will get through it, and hopefully you can both be happy and healthy in time. 

In reply to FirstPinnacleRib:

Hard place to be in mate.....try to not be harsh on yourself and look out for yourself a bit!

I'm not sure I was ever ready to have kids....I did though, 2 of them who are now grown up. For me the bit I could never have envisaged is the absolute love I have for them....the strongest and most intense I have ever felt. I ended up a single parent and brought them up ok I think. I often think about would I have children now if I was young again, it does seem the world has greater challenges than ever. It's a tough call for sure.

The responsibility bit for me was ok....it was just natural really.....although if I'd have thought about it I'd have probably felt anxious. It's been the greatest part of my life for sure but not having them would have given me a different but good life too....best of luck in your predicament and be sure to get out on the hill a bit...

In reply to lowersharpnose:

This. I was in a similar situation, the relationship ended. For the best, she had a kid with a new partner and is happy, I'm unencumbered and happy.

Have you considered that a possible contributing factor to your depression is the internal conflict you're having over this? Not saying it definitely is, but it was for me. 

Edited to add, don't give yourself a hard time. Just be totally honest with yourself and your lass.

In reply to Lord_ash2000:

Having a kid will never fix your problems in life and pretending it would is unimaginably selfish.

In reply to FirstPinnacleRib:

You need to tell your partner you do not want kids. If it’s a deal breaker for her, it’s time to move on. Life is too short, to live in misery in a circumstance you definitely don’t want to be in.

You’ve got to take care of yourself before you can take care of others.  Plus you’ve got to want to take care of those others, and not see them as a burden you resent.

In reply to Brass Nipples:

I don't think it's that black and white.

A straight 'no' is not a kind way to shut down her natural desire to be a Mum. Obviously the OPs got every right to decide they don't want to be a Dad, but it will be easier for her if you make it a joint decision.

You need to let her know your feelings, but also listen to hers. Then when you have both laid your cards on the table and taken into account the other person's feelings you can make a joint decision for the future.

That said it's kinder to say no now than to keep saying 'not yet' in the hope that she will somehow change her mind. As others have said sadly her body clock is starting to tick, so deliberately timewasting is cruel.

Edit - what I'm trying to say is is ok to say no, but be kind in how you say it. Clearly from the fact you've posted on here you are considering it, even if after consideration you are even more firmly in the no camp.

In reply to spenser:

I don't think you can accuse someone of being selfish for either having or not having kids. People have different challenges and factors to consider, but whatever the outcome, their decision isn't selfish (at least not in the way I think you mean it).

In reply to Jenny C:

You also shouldn’t shut down or dismiss his natural desire not to have kids.

In reply to Brass Nipples:

I'm not and edited my past to make it clear that it's ok to say no.

Also if you read above you will see that I have been in his partners position and the result of our discussions is that we didn't start a family.

In reply to montyjohn:

I think spenser was responding Lord_ash2000:

Not particularly good advice IMHO, and pretty (again IMHO) selfish reasons for having a child.

In reply to Ridge:

Couldn't agree more. High likelyhood of resenting the partner for putting you in the situation you didn't want.  Probably isn't going to do the relationship any good and highly likely to end up with a separation which gets extremely expensive for the bloke, especially with young children involved.

Successful relationships are all about compatability and if you want different things you are not compatible and the sooner it ends the better.

The longer it gets drawn out the worse it is going to be.

There is someone out there for everyone and you only have one life and so does your partner!

I met my current partner on my 40th birthday, 2 years after an ischaemic stroke and subsequent bitter divorce battle.  At the time I thought no one is ever going to want to be with me as I was so broken and had so much baggage.  The new partner had every reason to walk away but didn't.  We rebuilt our lives together and it was the best thing I ever did.

In reply to FirstPinnacleRib:

Not quite the same scenario, but my mum grew up being told that a woman's job was to have children and stay at home to raise them. 

She would always have said that she chose it and did it for the right reasons. However, I never once heard her say that she loved us, and she was clearly never happy in her role. There was no affection or fun. She was very grumpy and authoritarian. 

Now, our relationship is a bit better, but more because I make the effort because I know I should. I still sometimes get my husband to answer the phone when she calls because I don't have the energy to deal with her. 

So, it's obviously a very different situation, but I guess just making the point that those saying that you will love them once they are born or other such things...it's not always the case. 

In reply to FirstPinnacleRib:

If you don’t want them don’t have them. I have three and I wanted them. But now(5,7&9) I feel completely lost personally and I have lost my identity. I love being a parent and I love my kids more than anything but it is so bloody hard. The constant nature of parenting can be extremely overwhelming at times and it’s quite claustrophobic. 

In reply to montyjohn:

Having a child that you are unable to look after because you can't look after yourself emotionally is incredibly selfish.

My mother didn't bother addressing any of her mental health issues from her childhood before I was born, these issues contributed to the collapse of my parents' marriage (and an incredibly acrimonious divorce) and after the divorce she got together with an abusive prick who repeatedly violently attacked me, she has lied to the police on multiple occasions about the abuse she witnessed as she refuses to take responsibility for the consequences of her decisions.

Having a child is a huge responsibility, if you are going to risk exposing it to abuse because you haven't got a grasp of your mental health that is selfish, anyone encouraging someone to do that without a lot of context is naive in the extreme.

In reply to ThunderCat:

This rings so true for me. Great point.

In reply to Ridge:

You are correct, I was responding to the point you quoted.

In reply to FirstPinnacleRib:

Sort out depression, have a kid, teach kid to climb

Seems like a short and doable list to me

There's never a "good" time to have a kid, it won't look good on paper, always some reason that tomorrow is better. "JFDI" (just **** do it).

Yes it's challenging having kids (I've got 3) but so will breaking up with your partner or staying with her and seeing her live a sad unfulfilled life (since it sounds like she needs that for her fulfillment).

How do you even know you'd have kids if you tried? It doesn't work out for everyone sometimes for no individual's issue, just a wrong combination. Usually the least suitable... not sensible and very unsavoury people have the most kids (feral chav families, Boris Johnson, you know those types) and you sound sensible and decent person, so maybe it won't even happen. 

In reply to FirstPinnacleRib:

I’m going to be blunt because I respect your question and your courage in asking.

Then you have to find the support to stop being unhappy yourself, as if you’re fundamentally not happy, you’re not in the right place to support her happiness.

This will likely consign the child to unhappy surroundings.  You can make that decision for yourself - although as many have said on this thread you have options.  I implore you not to make that decision for a child.

Sprogging opens many doors and closes many others.  Some new parents will reflect more on the closed doors and wonder if they made the right decision; there’s nothing like convincing others to convince themselves so I suggest you don’t take people pushing hard a pro-sprogging line with any great weight.

Do you feel comfortable telling your partner what you’ve told UKC?  I think you need to be able to do that and support each other through the consequences.  After that, you can revisit the question of children.  My view is that if the parents can’t have full honesty and transparency and can’t work past what sounds like depression, the kids - being by nature exploitative little buggers who advocate from themselves above all else until they learn otherwise - are going to have a field day exploiting the flaws in the relationship.  I’ve seen this time and again in other people’s children.

You may well find your world view pivoting the moment you hold the newborn, but it could pivot for the better or the worse.  Enlist your partner’s help to get you in a place where it’s most likely to pivot for the better.

Thanks for posting.

In reply to FirstPinnacleRib:

I'm not going to answer either way as I can't really. But I would say, like many things in life, sprogs are unpredictable. You can plan to keep up your hobbies when they arrive but sometimes circumstances might stop that.

Ours were in hospital for 6 months when born, then needed a lot of additional care when back home. Working was close to impossible for a while and climbing was as well. We couldn't have predicted this, and the chances of it happening generally are pretty low. But be aware that if you're put in that sort of situation, you really don't have a choice as to what you want to do - you're now in charge of two small humans and they have to come first.

As a sort of postscript, they're both now fine and I'm getting out quite a bit!

In reply to FirstPinnacleRib:

Blimey, heavy thread.  I'd write some sort of helpful reply but it seems it's mostly been said and given I have kids I'm bloody knackered and need to get to bed soon so I can do it all again tomorrow : )

Good luck FPR!  Hope you find a happier place on the other side of this.

In reply to CantClimbTom:

Seriously?

In reply to FirstPinnacleRib:

A slightly different perspective from me: I’m a 50 year old childless man. I have absolutely no regrets about this state of affairs and luckily neither does my partner. We were actually chatting about this the other day, both of us reckon we spend at most a couple of minutes a month wondering about the alternatives. I simply have no desire for a typical family life, for good and ill. 

But I think that having a well balanced life without kids doesn’t mean you continue living in exactly the same way. You have to find a way of maturing and growing as a person without the pressures of parenting forcing you to do so, and you need things to dedicate yourself to - probably beyond climbing in my view and almost certainly for more than your own happiness. This isn’t as gruelling as having small kids but sometimes things you don’t have to do can be difficult in their own way.

There are many advantages to not having kids. You can change jobs and careers easily, and develop interests to an extent and depth that your friends with kids might not be able to. That’s great and a total gift. But you still have to find ways of devoting a part of your life to others.

In reply to FirstPinnacleRib:

I think there’s too many takes on this - the impact of having children is so individual that people who know you best would be better placed to offer advice.  An example: I struggled with my mental health pre-having kids but have never been happier post having them.  My wife was mostly on an even keel but reallly struggled with mental health after having kids and not just the initial post-pregnancy phase.  They have a huge impact on your life and it’s hard to tell what that means for you, or to really imagine the complex emotions it comes with.

I don’t know anyone who regrets having their children - but that doesn’t mean it’s right for everyone to have them (or that their life would have been simpler or more on of their choosing if they hadn’t).

In reply to seankenny:

Wise words.

In reply to henwardian:

Great soundbite.  0% accuracy.  Some parents commit suicide, are taken by substance addiction or just die by bad luck before finishing with “child rearing”.  There’s vast quantities of evidence out there on parents who didn’t make it through child rearing.  I’m agog that you’d state otherwise.  Yes, it’s a minority of parents but the evidence irrefutably disputes your stupid claim that “100% of ancestors” have “managed to deal with” child rearing.  Christ, it’s obvious that some fathers will die of natural causes before the birth thus showing your claim to be bullshit even before considering how and why parents will die or abdicate within the next decade.

In reply to wintertree:

Or that historically many women died in childbirth

Quick Google... in 1900 for every 1000 live births 6-9 women died of pregnancy related complications.

In reply to FirstPinnacleRib:

There is not a lot that I can add that has not been already said but take it from one who is the child of a mother who didn't sort her sh%t out* before having my sister and I and had us because she thought we were what would complete her (make her better?) if you are not in a good state of mind do not entertain having kids to make someone else happy if you know deep down they are not going to make you happy and you cannot fulfil your duties as a parent. And it is a duty, being a parent is not a god given right, or something you do well when the sun shines, or your med's are working, it is a duty of care, love, unconditional attention, and 100% dedication to your partner during pregnancy, birth, and motherhood - f@ck it up and whatever doubts you might have now will seem inconsequential compared to how bad you feel later in life.

Having children is a considered decision, or a chance you take because your gut tells you it's the right thing for you - if neither of these boxes are ticked, don't have kids.

Like many couples, I am I'm the unenviable position (actually it was easy for me - you know how it works) of having had to go through two lengthy and expensive rounds of IVF with my wife and each failing catastrophically part way through the term. Each time a little bit of my wife and I metaphorically died inside and further confirmed that we wanted children, wanted to be parents, and hell does it hurt when everything seems to be against you and friends and family are popping out babies like it's going out of fashion. Miracles do happen however and we now have two lovely, thoroughly irritating teens, had them naturally (no idea how, milkman probably) and would not swap them for the world. Are we good and deserving parents, sometimes, is every day a chore, mostly yes, but are the up sides of helping to part shape your own human simply amazing - you bet they are!

I might be coming across as a little blunt, mean even, but you must have that difficult conversation with yourself, with your partner, with your Dr. If you have doubts do, not commit to having children because ultimately you're being selfish to your partner (you are lying to her) and selfish to your future offspring.

*My dad balanced things out, and we had a fantastic childhood with two parents who could not do enough for us and showered us with love in their different ways.

In reply to FirstPinnacleRib:

FPR first post on UKC,53 replies, nothing more from FPR  🤔

In reply to Albert Tatlock:

Did you read that first post at all???? Even, I don’t know, the first paragraph???

In reply to FirstPinnacleRib:

I'm now 65, and I've known from the start that I never ever wanted children. This knowledge meant losing two women who I loved dearly, but in hindsight, although I still think about them both, I've never once regretted my decision, not even for a second. I also took the somewhat unusual step of having a vasectomy in my late thirties, which again I've never regretted for a second. Do I  think I've missed out on anything? Absolutely not. I'm now married to a woman who also neither wanted or had children, and that's just fine for both of us. As for people telling you "ah, but it'll all be different when you have them, you'll love them, it'll be the best thing ever" etc etc - ignore them, because the only person who knows how YOU feel is you, not some random other. Any maybe if you have this honest conversation with your partner, you may find that it was the dread of having children that was contributing to (or possibly causing) your depression. Just my two bob's worth.

In reply to Ridge:

putting a positive spin on the situation, what would be preferable? a negative "it's more that you can manage" type of response?

Having a kid and taking them climbing is very rewarding, and if you are not a pushy parent hopefully for them also

In reply to CantClimbTom:

There's positive and there's what is currently unrealistic given the OPs stated position on the matter. You're assuming his depression is the only possible reason for not wanting children. 

As others have posted, being brought up by resentful parents/parents with deep seated issues can severely affect the lives of the children, (and the adults they become).

In reply to FirstPinnacleRib:

If you were in a position of stability and enjoyment jobwise, would the prospect of having kids be any different to how you feel now? Would the other factors perhaps become less prominent?

The obvious thing to say is that there are too many things causing you problems, but maybe there is just one governing factor making the others seem too much to cope with. Reducing the impact of the chief one among them could have the effect of making the others seem less burdensome..?

Agree that the world seems bleak right now, but you could argue that having kids would make it significantly less so. I say that because if you grow to love your own children, they will see the source of your unhappiness and be influenced enough by it to have a significantly positive impact on your own wellbeing - even to the point of direct involvement with mitigating what has made things bleak in the first place, later on in their own adult life. Many great things can start from the standpoint of mutual love.

This is what has happened with my own children. I've gone from being a child sceptic 35 years ago (for very similar reasons to you), to being an immensely proud and happy dad. I know the world is a better place with them in it - and the complete opposite of being further burden on me. 

In reply to Dave Todd:

More honoured in the breach than in the observance for sure in my case, but you have to be aware of the issue I think. 

Fully recommend episode 3 of The Last of Us for a wonderful exploration of how a childless life can be imbued with love and meaning. 

In reply to FirstPinnacleRib:

Change job irrespective of whether you want kids or not.  What would you do if your partner became disabled, couldn't work, and you had to provide for her?

None of us will ever have enough time to do all the things we want to do, we'll just keep replacing them on our list as we do them.  That's not really a valid excuse. What're you doing about ticking your list now? What's on the list?

Have you been depressed in the past, or is this the first thing in your life that's depressed you? I.e. do you have a chronic mental health issue, or is this simply something that's so big it's tipping you over an edge you've never got to in the past, and are unlikely to in the future?

In terms of kids 'ruining your life' - in most guys' experiences they don't. Yes, your life will change massively, but it's unlikely to be 'worse' and certainly not 'ruined'.  Your life will change anyway as you get older.

In reply to AllanMac:

' if you grow to love your own children,'

That's a big 'if'. And 'if not'?

In reply to FirstPinnacleRib:

Hi I echo everyone else’s sentiments about seeing someone even just a gp about your depression. Im just giving my experiences as someone as a reluctant parent who now has two young ones who has suffered badly with anxiety and probably a bit of depression over the years. Im 38 now and I’ve got a 3 year old and 5 week old and I’ve been with my partner for around 16 years. My wife was keen to have kids when we were 30ish. I wasn’t so sure and put it off for years spent my 20s not doing too much drinking too much etc and got into climbing quite late. I was really nervous about having kids but once I had them I really wish I had them sooner. They’ve given my life more purpose and structure and I’m without a doubt a better off person for having them. It is bloody hard at times though and the first few months are crazy. I’ve had to seriously ass few apt to how I work out and climbing has taken a hit but crucially I have managed to still get out occasionally and you really do cherish the times you are able to. I on the flip side I’ve also heavily encouraged my wife to get out and do her hobbies as much as possible take weekends away etc (probably a little selfishly so that I could do it as well). Also once you manage to get your kid in bed the evening is your oyster and most walls close at 10 so possible to have a few hours climbing or meet up and have a night run once they’re in bed.

I’m not quite sure what I’m trying to say here but I’m just trying to get across my experiences. One thing I will say though is get your mental health looked at before having kids if that’s what you decide. Babies stop you sleeping which can inn turn exacerbate any low feelings, anxiety etc. I was lucky enough to see a therapist quite a lot before my first but knew ally having to check in with myself quite a bit at the moment with the lack of sleep. 

In reply to FirstPinnacleRib:

Hi all thanks very much for the responses. Some really interesting stuff to think about. 

To clarify a couple of things,

I have had some help for depression & anxiety, but came off anti-depressants because they didn't help much and made me feel groggy. It's generally manageable. Things are definitely worse at the moment as I'm giving a lot of thought to this hard decision. 

Regarding the job, it's not totally horrendous and I can't think of anything else I would want to do instead. It's fairly well paid and I have a mortgage, etc. So it seems a bit rash to sack it off and try to figure something else out. 

I have been quite open with my partner, it's just getting to decision time now. 

I'm not saying I'd just have a child and do the bare minimum. I know some Dads who barely climb anymore, some who strike a reasonable balance, and some who do more climbing than me- probably at the expense of being a good father. But if I couldn't get in a decent amount of climbing I'd quit climbing as I can't bare the thought of not being able to do it to the extent I'd like to. I don't doubt I'd be a great Dad, I'm just not sure I want to make all the necessary sacrifices.

Thanks

In reply to wintertree:

So... Is it that you missed the emoji? Or do you just enjoy angry ranting?

In reply to AllanMac:

It's a bit of a longshot. But I was a bit concerned about fitting in everything and giving up things to have children. And didn't particularly like my job. Anyway one of my offspring is now is an outdoor instructor. She takes Dad out now and  is now a lot more capable than me. In my declining years there's few things more joyful than being in the hills or on the safe end of a rope being encouraged to get up a rock by her. I would never have guessed.

In reply to FirstPinnacleRib:

One question.

Do you climb with your partner or separately?

I have watched several friends and how their active hobbies evolve after children and if you both have different hobbies and are willing to alternate childcare it's relatively easy.

Tuesday you climb, Thursday she swims (or whatever)  and that still gives you three evenings a week at home together. Then weekends, you have Sunday as a family and alternate Saturdays as to who goes out for a full day and who does childcare. It's even possible to have a week away climbing with friends if in turn you look after the little one when she has a week away doing her thing. Doing this week give you 1:1 time to closely bond with jnr, as well as time away to continue your interests.

For most parents priorities naturally change. I know a few people who jokingly blame their kids for why they don't climb hard anymore, but when questioned it's their own decision to prioritise family time as their partner is happy for them to go climbing more than they actually do.

You may also find that running or cycling take the place of climbing. A day at the crag is a full day away from the family, where as a ride/run is only a few hours and if you're motivated with an early start you can be home by lunchtime.

Also don't underestimate the pleasure of sharing your love of climbing with jnr, and I'm not taking pushy parent here but just sharing the experience as you mentor them through life.

In reply to seankenny:

Same here. Long ago my partner and I considered kids but then thought nar and didn't bother but that was a mutual decision the both of us made. Never regreted it although had we made the decision to have kids then that would probably have been great too.

All I would say to the op is it is important to be on the same page as your partner and to discuss these things.

In reply to henwardian:

No, I saw it but I interpreted it differently I now think to how you meant it to be interpreted.  If you’re being sarcastic it’s best to spell it out, a smiley face doesn’t really do that.

I think your comment was utterly tone deaf to the very open OP and how they’re experiencing the world to the point it could be detrimental.  

Occasionally there’s a thread where stupid comments that may or may not be read ironically aren’t helpful IMO.  

There were other parts of your post that ring concern, eg

That’s not universally the case.  Probably, not always.

In reply to Jenny C:

She doesn't climb

That sounds quite bad to me. I'd rather not climb at all. I couldn't cope with not climbing the amount I want to, or the guilt of not looking after the child if I did.

That sounds even worse!

In reply to wintertree:

It's an interesting point. A lot of people survive inspite of their parenting. However it doesn't always result in bad kids (though they may carry the burden of their up bringing all their life). My mother was a great mum but she left home at 14 when her own mother had a breakdown after the death of her father and was a constant worrier. My great grandfather on my father's side was twice a bigamist and a gambler but my grandfather turned out fine. despite a refusal to ever discuss his father.

In reply to FirstPinnacleRib:

The whole point of what I'm suggesting is that there is no guilt as you will be alternating childcare, not dumping all the responsibility on mum. You can compensate for the time you're away with quality 1:1 time when mums out doing her thing, which is probably better than spending every evening at home just watching TV and doing the bare minimum with jnr.

But yes, if you're used to climbing both days at the weekend and 2-3 night's midweek you will probably need to scale that back. How much depends on lots of factors, but I'm assuming mum will want away time for her interests, and you will also want time together as a family unit.

Fair point about running and cycling, can't argue with you on that one.

But going back to what I've said in previous points, it's ok after consideration to decide that kids aren't for you

In reply to Queen of the Traverse:

If your in a bad place mentally having a kid is gonna make it worse. The first year is heavy going. Not sure about he rest as mines only 1. It’s great and all that but I didn’t really want kids most of my life and it’s exactly how I’d imagined it would be now I have one. There lots or positives too mind. 

In reply to FirstPinnacleRib:

I dunno, doing any climbing usually sounds pretty good to me! You can obviously snatch the odd hour at the wall, put a fingerboard or even a Moonboard in your house/garage, do weights or stretching in the evenings (maybe after the first year of madness has passed). Maybe the problem here is that you’re one of those people who only does things 100% so the idea of fitting climbing around other things doesn’t sit well? 

In reply to Jenny C:

This is how me and my wife tend to do it. On the balance of things I probably get to do a bit more but I try and encourage my wife to do as much as possible and give her the opportunity to do whatever she wants it just turns out she likes staying in and relaxing a bit more than me. 

In reply to FirstPinnacleRib:

There's not much room for compromise there.

In reply to compost:

IMHO - the OP is coming across as very juvenile in their approach to life in general never mind having kids - for which you don't necessarily have to be a grown-up but you do have to get to grips with extreme compromises and just sucking it up more often than not.

In reply to Jenny C:

Although of the climbing Dads I know, the seemingly unhappiest are the ones who have this sort of rigid equitable sharing of childcare.  

In reply to BRILLBRUM:

Not sure it's juvenile.  It's his life and he should be able to live it the way he wants provided he doesn't hurt anyone in the process. He needs to speak to his misses asap as stringing her along is plain wrong.

I can understand why someone wouldn't want to make the extreme compromise.  If your someone who is obsessed with climbing and down the wall 3 or 4 times a week and away every weekend, then you may end up struggling with one or two sessions a week and just going through the motions, never progressing or achieivng your climbing goals.

It seems like the OP has already made his mind up.  The fact the relationship is likely to be over as a result is a sad but necessary fall out.  But they will both get over it given time and end up living the lives they want to live or at least try and get as close to it as possible.

In reply to steveej:

The point of my earlier post about growing older without kids is that making compromises is not only inevitable, it’s actually really good for one’s psyche. There is definitely a time for total dedication to climbing and it can absolutely be done later in life if you arrange it (I went on a three month climbing trip in my late 30s which was a glorious burst of immaturity, definitely recommend if you can manage it). But life isn’t always going to be like that whether because of injury, work, relationships, illness, aging parents etc. The grass on the childless side of the fence might be greener, but life changes anyhow, and I feel the OP should be aware of this as he makes a decision. 
 

I should also point out that it’s possible to achieve many goals in climbing with less time away from ordinary life. It requires lots of discipline and time management skills but it seems possible. 

In reply to FirstPinnacleRib:

"I hate my job but don't want to be trapped" "" Wow, that says a lot too. Cant you change your job? I too hated my job.  Then I met my now wife and she challenged me by asking me why I stayed.  

And I think my answer 47 years ago was much the same as yours.  Happy(enough) to stay where I was as I was and carry on as normal.  (single and 'free')   After all change is n't always easy, is it?

In the last 47 years I've never, ever done any job or work I don't enjoy.  I'm much happier now than I was as a free, and single man with no responsibilities.  I'd never go back.

Good luck with the job.
 

In reply to seankenny:

Life might change and there will be challenges and sacrifices that need to be made.  But there is a difference between having to suck them up becuase you don't have a choice versus choosing to bring them on yourself.

Having kids is going to be the biggest commitment he ever makes in his life and he will forever be secondplace as he will need to put them first. That is a choice and a choice only he can make.

Bringing kids into the world where you are not both highly compatible and not both 100% up for it is a recipe for disaster in my opinion and the fall out will be huge when it all goes wrong.

In reply to FirstPinnacleRib:

I had my first child 2 and a half years ago, I personally never had the desire or craved children, but I also wasn't against the idea either, I guess I had always thought 'would I make a good dad'? my wife fell pregnant and the fear of being 'good' at it never left and I still think about it today and he's here.

I only got into climbing around 2019 but have been obsessed with it ever since and had spent most of my time consumed by this new hobby.

I too somewhat shared the same feelings as you, what about climbing, I'd only really just started and now I'm going to have a child which will change all this new found excitement of finding a sport to  which I love. 

BUT our son came along and whilst a week long trip to Kalymnos is now a while away we've both been able to make it work, we share time together and make time for our own hobbies, my wife is into running and so we dedicate a week night each to our hobbies and then one day a weekend we put it in the calendar when each is going to do their climbing/running and the other day we spend al together as a family.

It seems to work well for us, I'm not saying this is the answer for anyone/everyone but communication was and still is key, sometimes things need to be sacrificed to make way for other things but a shuffle of time here or there and I still get to climb twice a week.

Having a child isn't for everyone and that's completely ok, nobody can say what's right for you but I think you need to just be honest and let the chips fall where they may.

In reply to FirstPinnacleRib:

If it helps make your decision any easier my 3 year old has managed to get shit in his foot while going to the toilet and has walked it around the house  

In reply to Jim Hamilton:

But what about the climbing mums?

In reply to BRILLBRUM:

I wouldn't say juvenile. I might well say 'suffering from depression'. 

In reply to wintertree:

Ok, to help you out:

Serious advice to the OP.

Unvarnished, stripped down truth. Because personally I find that if you strip a problem back to its simplest possible form, it makes it easier to pick a solution.

Serious comment on my view of the morality of the situation.

Attempt to create a more original, less boring version of "every cloud has a silver lining". Followed by some honest observations based on my friends who are parents and my experience of changing jobs and careers and my experience relying on family members to help me when I'm having a hard time and need support (though not specifically in child rearing terms) and my experience of finding a new partner after a traumatic breakup.

Clearly flippant nonsense with dedicated emoji to tip everyone off to such.

Hopefully that clears it up for you.

In reply to seankenny:

Steveej has already replied on this, but I'll second his comments. I agree that it's impossible to plan for every eventuality and live a perfect life for ever. Old age age, infirmity, life changing injuries, debilitating illness, Liz Truss's batshit mental plans for the economy can all come along and destroy your plans for a happy life.

Human beings are incredibly resilient and overcome challenges that would seem impossible to face, but they're generally not self-inflicted. For every gold medal paralympian that comes out of adversity there will be hundreds living in misery and regret.

I suppose it's about risk appetite to some extent, but having children is an irreversible decision, it's not like taking a chance on a career move or starting a new business.

I had a similar dilemma 30 odd years ago. My then wife wanted children, I didn't. After a lot of soul searching we decided to part. She's (AFAIK - not been in touch for years) happily married with 4 kids, I'm happily married with no kids.

I'm pretty much certain that having children would have been the worst possible decision for both of us. We'd have coped, we might even have come to terms with it and found the positives, but it would have been making the best of a bad situation that was avoidable. 

It's a tough one for the OP and his partner, and I hope they can find a way forward, whatever they decide.

In reply to FirstPinnacleRib:

Another bit of general advice to job hatred haha. Could you go down to 4 days a week instead of 5. By moving to even just 4.5 days instead of the full week it’s tipped the balance further in my favour. I’d love to change it to 4 but can’t right now. 

In reply to Ridge:

I think a lot of people deal with incredibly self-inflicted problems. 

There are plenty of non-procreation decisions that are in effect irreversible, and on the other side, there are enough people (mostly men) who have very little to do with their children and whose lives are untouched by their parental responsibilities. I think you can always be affected by irreversible decisions and many of them don’t appear as obvious as having kids. 

That’s not to say one shouldn’t take having children seriously, more that lots of decisions should not be taken lightly. My point was merely that the OP should be realistic about what life without kids is actually going to be like. 

In reply to FirstPinnacleRib:

If you don’t want to have kids then don’t. And don’t get talked into it. You might have to terminate the relationship but so be it. Don’t be pressured into it if you really don’t want to and definitely don’t do it to make someone else happy at your own expense. 
 

In reply to Queen of the Traverse:

I don't know any climbing mums who follow a strict childcare sharing arrangement (apart from those who are divorced!) but doubt it would be a good option for the OP, from what he says, once his partner becomes pregnant.  

In reply to FirstPinnacleRib:

You've got to do your best to get a job you like. Never mind climbing, your unpleasant job is going to spoil your life more than having kids. Also if you are spending 40% of your life doing something that makes you miserable that will have a negative effect on your relationship and your climbing, never mind kids. In tackling depression you have to get rid of some stressors. Changing your job seems the easiest one to go for. If you and your partner love each other that should be the last thing you change.