In reply to Frank the Husky:
> Hello henwardian - allow me correct you because your deductions are...a very long way off!
> I've been in the US for the last three-ish weeks and wasn't aware of any related threadnaughts (great description btw) in that time...so no, I had no clue about that thread. A quick search for "peg bolts" or even a general "gogarth" hasn't revealed it even now.
Fair enough. I think one of the first replies was from someone who said you had contributed to the last Gogarth Pegbolt thread so I assumed (cue one more round of ass, me, you word play) you had without checking. I don't actually remember when that thread was, it's just in my brain as recent, "last Thursday" is my offhand way of saying recently and with my deteriorating mental capacities that probably means a few weeks to months.
> I'm not interested in putting peg bolts "all over" Gogarth, but I do like a pragmatic approach to fixed gear.
I'm more of a purist, as I'm sure you have surmised! I've got projects around the place on sea cliffs with strong trad histories like Gogarth and even though they vary from safe to dangerous to suicidal, I'd still never stick a bolt in one, I'd rather leave it for a hypothetical day when I'm both strong and devil-may-care bold or, more likely, people who are better than me.
> It seems that common sense has made some inroads into the (at times) stagnant and reactionary fixed gear discussion and progress has been made, which I fully approve of.
I don't.
> I've spent these last few weeks on some big and sometimes sketchy aid towers in Utah. However, all the belays have bomber bolts between pitches of dubious tricams/hooks/etc in blown out placements. Despite those bolts, the adventure element is on overdrive. More of that please!
I don't see the relevance. Aid is barely a thing anywhere in the UK in the 21st century. And now we are talking about bolted belays, which is different again and I don't think that is relevant either, I only know of one route in the UK where the belay is reputedly so crap it's terrifying (Enchanted Broccoli Garden) and as far as I know, it's possible to back it up with an ab rope. There isn't anywhere in the UK even remotely like the desert towers of Utah so I don't think it's valid to import their local ethics here.
> Your final statement about "too hard/bold" is one point of view but it's reminds me of context free phrases that pop up every now and then in this sort of discussion. "Thin end of the wedge" being the other obvious candidate, and context is everything.
In the context of Gogarth, I've climbed quite a few routes at a number of cliffs there and I've even abbed down a couple of routes that were too hard for me on North Stack Wall and worked out the moves and thought "that doesn't seem to hard but good god would be a space-hoppers-for-balls day that I'd ever consider leading it!". I haven't ever seen anything at Gogarth that was a totally blank face with zero possibilities for gear (this isn't to say that such lines don't exist, it is a huge place). Where there are just very serious sections interspersed with bits of better or worse gear, I think the leader should either pony up or admit fear and mental weakness has got the best of them!