UKH

Hey all - looking for some advice on Gogarth! Heading down to N.Wales for 4 days and want to do a day or two at Gogarth. We haven't done much sea cliff climbing all, and I just wanted to get some advice on it to make sure we're not doing anything stupid and will have the best time possible.

Bit about us, we've both done plenty of mountain trad. I'm v.steady at e1 and my partner is v.steady at HVS.

Looking at the guidebook, Castell Helen seems like a sensible place to start. Are there any other places/routes that would be good way to get used to sea-cliff climbing?

We'd obviously love to do Dream of White Horses, but I'm concerned this is a little full-on without having done a few simpler, less committing routes first? If anyone has any thoughts on this, that would be class.

Cheers all!

In reply to Oscar Dodd:

Lighthouse Arete is what a lot of people do as their first gogarth route. I did Dream as mine when I was climbing about E2 and it felt very easy climbing wise, but there is some faffing around the abseil and hanging belays etc.

In reply to Oscar Dodd:

I doubt you'd find the climbing on DoWH particularly challenging - worth watching other people to see where it goes. You get a good view from the opposite headland (it is a lot more of a slab than it appears from there).

In reply to Oscar Dodd: Castell Helen is good, it can get busy if the weather is decent. Wen Zawn is better in the afternoon, so you could do a route at Castell Helen(or on Holyhead mountain) then head over to Wen Zawn. If DoWH is busy there are other good routes to try like The Concrete Chimney (HVS 5a) or Wen (HVS 5a) or Dde (HVS 5a). If you are there for a few days then definitely try main cliff, something like Scavenger (HVS 5a) and Emulator (E1 5b). Again, don’t try and get on the main cliff too early or the first pitch’s can feel greasy, a late start and late finish is usually best.

In reply to Oscar Dodd:

You can always climb a route or two at  Holyhead Mountain as well, to get a feel for the rock. 

In reply to Oscar Dodd:

Britomartis (HVS 4c) is absolutely superb too and accessed by abbing in from the headland that overlooks Dream.

In reply to Martin Haworth:

DoWH is a line of ants on bank holidays and nearly all those routes in wen zawn cross it somewhere, so I'd be looking elsewhere this weekend. 

Scavenger and emulator are two of the best routes of their grade I can think of. I'd also strongly recommend those.

In reply to Mthr:

Another shout out for Emulator, steady climbing and not intimidating. Would not recommend Britomaris as first sea cliff route,  we abseiled down but got heavy rain just as we started. Luckily we had left a fixed abseil rope so had to prussick out on this!

In reply to Dewi Williams:

i thought emulator was tricky!

In reply to Oscar Dodd:

Most of the crags mentioned are fine, but check the access database for restrictions - birds nesting 

In reply to George_Surf:

Yeah, definitely not soft but I remember being able to bridge out, chill out, pack in the gear and compose myself between each techy sequence. Really enjoyed it.

In reply to George_Surf:

Yes tricky but well protected.

In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

Yes a fair point.

In reply to Oscar Dodd:

Most of gogarth feels soapy until the sun has been on it. I often see crowds queueing on DOWH in the morning only for it to be empty later when bathed in afternoon or early evening sun. Over this easter it is low tide in the afternoon and this spring tide goes particularly low. As already mentioned Emulator and Scavenger are particularly good introductions to the main cliff and at opposite ends of it, being well protected but steep. My sugestion would be to start with a route on the upper tier, the Ramp or Gauntlet are good HVSs with an exposed Gogarth type approach (ensure you are well belayed!!). Then get on the Main Cliff in the afternoon after tide has dropped well enough to scramble past the the Gogarth Pinacle. If you go for Scavanger the sea level approach is an excellent opportunity to appreciate the main cliff. For any Gogarth route take lots and lots of slings. After many routes finish there is a long and steep grass and heather scramble to get to the traverse path off so comfortable shoes are useful. Don’t be tempted to drop down too soon as you approach the gearing up spot, go a fair way past it before doubling back.

Enjoy

In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

Come to think of it I wouldn't say Scavenger was low in the grade either. But again my memory of it wasn't stressful or feeling harassed, just brain-melting exposure and situations that you don't get on HVS.

Really enjoyed that one too. 

In reply to Mthr:

Britomartis is brilliant. The crux is the first 15 feet. After that, it's jug pulling on a very steep wall with a lot of exposure. Its all well protected.

In reply to Oscar Dodd:

All the advice is much-appreciated people! Thank you so much for all your suggestions!

In reply to Martin Haworth:

Or Britomartil or Toiler on the sea around the corner

In reply to Oscar Dodd:

Always useful to take some spare old ropes for handrails on areas of the cliff where descending steep wet grass is necessary to get to the abseil point.

DC

In reply to Oscar Dodd:

Although at odds with the rest of the advice, with it's lack of abseiling and single pitch, I would argue that it's difficult to get anymore pedestrian than Symphony Crack VD, Rhoscolyn:
https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/rhoscolyn-617/symphony_crack-6832
...in terms of something to help get used to sea cliff climbing. There are also more challenging routes close by. It is a longer walk in than Castell Helen though, and in my opinion less fun.

In reply to Oscar Dodd:

Apart from Mthr referring to having needed to escape up the ab rope themselves, I'm surprised nobody's yet advised carrying prusiks and making sure beforehand that you know how to use them. Sea cliffs are nearly unique in often removing the option to just lower off to safety (could also happen on multi-pitch climbs but probably less commonly). I don't want to overstate the case, because in a lot of years of reasonably regular sea-cliff climbing I've only actually needed to use them in anger on one occasion. But I do think it's an important option to keep in mind for situations like:

• You've fallen off and are hanging in space, unable to get back on climbable rock. Probably pretty rare at common mortal grades but one place it would be quite likely in the event of a fall by leader or second would be the final pitch of DoWH (which has a long traverse section along the lip of some very steep terrain and could easily leave you hanging in free space a long way above the sea). I don't think anyone should ever attempt this route without prusiks on their harness and the knowledge to use them (leader and second).
• You've bitten off more than you can chew and can't manage the climb out by the easiest route available but still have access to the ab rope.
• You've injured yourself too badly to climb out but could still ascend a rope. Or your partner is too injured to belay but you could ascend the ab rope to get help. (Prusiks also useful for improvised hauls, of course.)

None of those are very likely to actually happen. But prusiks are cheap to acquire and easy to learn to use, so I think it's well worth doing before getting into sea cliffs. Sooner or later you'll probably be glad you took the trouble, even if it's to avoid wet feet or a slimy unpleasant climb rather than a matter of life and death. You may already have done this for your other climbing but hopefully it's worth putting out there anyway if other people starting out on sea cliffs find this thread.

In reply to Dave Cumberland:

Easter Island gulley in particular springs to mind.

In reply to GrahamD:

Agree. That is exactly where we used ropes to get down the grass. Nothing more scary than steep wet grass above a big drop.

DC

In reply to Luke90:

Good post. I have had 2 epics on sea cliffs that would not have happened inland. Only JUST got away with the first