UKH

Hi all, I currently own 35 and 50 litre sacks, both pretty old, and want something a bit smaller/lighter (flexible, but ~25 litres.)
It'll be used for days out walking with my wife, plus days out sport climbing or bouldering (in the latter case it'll just be stashed inside a folded pad.)
Essential features include waist/chest straps and a rope compression strap. I'll use it often with a rope bag strapped under the rope strap when I go sport climbing. Ideally I'd like some form of pocket big (ie long) enough to take a folded os map or small (bmc size) guidebook. I want something that will stand up to some abuse.
I've looked up a load of websites and found the following options: does anyone have any of the following and can provide good/bad feedback?
Thanks!
Si

Black Diamond Speed 22 or 30 , or Axis 24
Edelrid Helix 25
Mountain Hardwear Hueco 20 or 28, or Scrambler 30
Arc'teryx Cierzo 18 or 28
Force Ten Alpine 25
Blue Ice Warthog 28
Mammut Trion Tour 28

In reply to Si dH:
I use a DMM Vector for climbing but a couple of Osprey rucksacks for day walks or longer trips.

I don't think climbing bags work well as a walking rucksack or vice versa.

This opinion may well be shot down by others!

In reply to JEF:
Arcteryx cierzo 28 is good, although worth being in mind it's a bit more lightweight than other options on the list. Ticks the box for rope strap, internal pocket. It has a nice small zipped pocket on the outside which is perfect for bits and bobs. Chest and waist straps are good too. Don't really like the compressions strap type things but they are removable anyway.

I did wear a hole through using it as a haul bag, but that was fairly out of the ordinary use I would imagine...

In reply to Si dH:
I really love my Blue Ice Warthog. I used it for about 50+ days climbing in Scotland last winter.

However I have to agree with JEF, climbing sacks don't make great walking or general cragging sacks. I won a DMM Flight sack last year and it is now my go to sack for cragging replacing a Blue Ice Octopus which was nice but not nearly as useful and well designed as the Flight.

In reply to Si dH:

I use a DMM Zenith for sport climbing and find it ideal, but it doesn't have a rope strap.

In reply to The Ex-Engineer:
Thanks. To explain a bit better why I've decided on the above needs...

I have two ropes+rope bags for sport cragging that I don't want to ditch (for reasons of rope use & belaying at the crag), but neither is big enough for a 70m sport rope + all my stuff for the day (I eat & drink too much) so whichever rope I take, I need a separate sack too. At the moment I use my 35 litre walking pack but (a) it's too big and (b) it has no rope strap. Hence the desire for something a bit smaller with a rope strap, within which the whole rope bag will then be cinched.
A dmm flight or vector type thing would be great for trad days, but I can still use my 50 litre (an old lowe alpine attack) for that. They are too big for a sport day in addition to a rope bag. The Zenith couldn't cope with the rope.

As I often have loads of spare room in my 35 litre pack when we go walking, I'd like to use the new pack for that too. And finally, a smaller pack would also fit in a folded pad more comfortably.

Hence the original list. Good to get positive feedback on the Arc'teryx and blue ice options. Anyone with experience of the others?

(Edited for some more clarity.)

In reply to Si dH:

More depends on what you need. I bought a cheap, light Karrimor sac. Wand pockets, waist belt, lid pcket. Sorted. Even if it falls to bits eventually it's no problem and it's comfy and 30 litres.

In reply to Stone Idle:

Thanks, see above.
Have realised the Helix and Hueco 20 don't have the straps I need so ruling them out.

Has anyone used the BD, Force Ten, Mammut or larger MH options?

Bump, any more views on these?

In reply to Si dH:

Blue Ice yeti in the size you require. Mine hasn't been in the snow yet but plenty of crag days and feels bomb proof.

Lid comes off for when it's empty and folds down nicely, plus can be stripped nice and light.

In reply to Si dH:

Ascensionist 25 or mutant 28?

In reply to Si dH:
I have owned the bd speed 22 and stay away it broke within 48 hours the stitching pulls away due to fabric so email bd in July and still awaiting a response. In the mean time I have bought a 28 litre MAMMUT Trion light 28+ it's really nice well built and have the comfiest shoulder and hip straps I've ever had but they aren't thick they just distribute the load well. The trion light has a huge removable top lid and a removable rope strap + four compression straps. Only issue is it only comes in bright green (kermit the frog green).

In reply to mff513:


If you bought it in the UK, then your contract is with the vendor. You still have some time left within the six month 'reversed burden of proof' period provided by the Sale of Goods Act.

Take it back to where you bought it.

In reply to neuromancer:

Thanks, the mutant 28 looks like a good option, have you got one, any bad points?
The ascentionist doesn't have a rope attachment as far as I can tell.

In reply to mff513:
Thanks.
I looked at a speed 22 in a shop today. I quite liked it but the main downside was it did seem a bit flimsy, especially the plastic buckle...so this does worry me slightly. There was also a bd cirque 30 there that seemed a lot more robust.

In reply to Si dH:

Bump

In reply to Si dH:

I bought a mutant 38 as a general large cragging sack a while back but I believe the back system is the same between the two. I have a rather unhealthy collection of packs but I ended up this past year also using the mutant for short backpacking trips without the lid.(some other bits strip off to save weight too). I've found it to be very comfortable for all uses. I like the substantial but non bulky hip belt. It also holds very little water and so dries off fast and there is no mesh (other than the back contact area) to pick up dirt when plonking your bum on it for a rest.

The only thing I would fault it for is it is very dark inside. I have the the blue colour. Unlike many lightweight packs that let some daylight in through the less abrasion resistant fabric or reflects ambient light internally this lets none in. Zero issues otherwise and I'd get a 28 in a heartbeat if I needed one.

In reply to The Ex-Engineer:

It's a great little pack for summer multipitch and lightweight winter days. It has a tough fabric and good capacity for its small volume. However I've found fault with my Warthog 26 in a number of ways:

The buckle broke almost immediately (so much for durability); the waist strap gets tangled with the shoulder straps ALL the time, although it does work well with a harness; and the buckle fastening being mounted half way up the body means that when emptied of your gear (or even half empty) you can't cinch the top down to reduce the volume of the pack.

This last point in particular is simply poor design. And they haven't fixed it in the remodelled 28l. Why not add a second loop for the hook near the base?

http://www.blueice.com/product/warthog-28l-pack/

Looks like they fixed the buckle weakness at least and the addition of axe pockets and some attachment points for shock cord (crampons etc) put the capacity in the sweet spot.

I also have a Patagonia Ascensionist 35l and I LOVE that pack for Scottish winter. Great capacity and expandable to at least 40l, really big aperture for digging the belay jacket out of the bottom, super lightweight, very comfortable, great waist belt that works with a harness. Highly recommended.

In reply to neuromancer:

I really like my Patagonia Ascensionist 25 but i wouldn't recommend it for what the OP is asking for. It won't fit a rope in a rope bag under the lid very well. Just a rope can be a bit of a faff unless it's packed right. It's also pretty lightweight so might get trashed quickly?

In reply to BnB:

I also use the Warthog 26 and find that if half full you can stuff the lid inside and cinch it in with the rope strap fed through the hydration bladder hole.

In reply to Si dH:

Not what you want to hear, but I really like the alpkit goudron. £25 and 25 litres, really light. I've attached a rope loop to the top to allow me to carry rope, axes or rollmat. It's a drybag with shoulder straps basically. Look after it and it stays waterproof, or use Seam seal to patch holes.

In reply to Si dH:
I use the arc teryx alpha fl30. Simple but bomber pack

In reply to james Campbell:

Good tip. I'll give that a try.

In reply to Si dH:

Do Deuter make anything suitable? They're very good sacs.