UKH

Lake District Mixed Routes that do not rely on turf

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 BnB 16 Nov 2015
Can anyone recommend any mixed routes in the Lakes at any grade below V+ which are turf free, or not reliant on turf, requiring not a lot more than a general appearance of whiteness to be in condition with little risk of environmental damage?

Many thanks
1
In reply to BnB:
Mixed routes consist of turf, rock and ice, hence the term mixed! Winter is not here yet, one of the main virtues of the winter game, is patience, wait for proper conditions to arrive.

PS. Even in Scotland at the moment, there is only a dusting of snow on unfrozen ground, these are not winter conditions.
From personal experience in general, graded routes in the Lakes require frozen turf, good fun can be had on the usual scrambles, Pinnacle ridge, Striding edge etc, dry tooling rock routes is not acceptable.
Post edited at 19:16
2
OP BnB 16 Nov 2015
In reply to Andy Clarke1965:

I don't want to dry tool classic rock climbs. And the wording of my post makes my concern for environmental damage manifestly clear, but thank you for the ethics lecture all the same. But routes do exist in Scotland, for example on Beinn Eighe, that require little more than snow to be in condition, so why not elsewhere?
1
In reply to BnB:

Yep you refered to mixed routes, snowed up rock only routes do not exist in the Lakes, gneiss tends to be free of vegetation, unless on a ledge.

There are quarries in the Lakes for this type of climbing.
 TobyA 16 Nov 2015
In reply to BnB:

I remember Pinnacle Ridge being rocky (although very snowy) when I did it. I don't remember turf moves but I may well have used some - nevertheless if there is plenty of snow low down but you're not convinced the turf is frozen through, it would be a good bet I suspect.

My impression is that Lakes routes tend to be more like Arrochar/S. Highlands in feel (turfy!) rather than Cairngorm granite or Beinn Eighe. I've got some ideas for early season possibilities in North Wales though if you are interested...
 Dave Ferguson 16 Nov 2015
In reply to BnB:

if you're serious about little risk of environmental damage this should fit the bill: The Works
OP BnB 16 Nov 2015
In reply to Andy Clarke1965:

Yesterday's contributions to this thread http://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/t.php?n=624830#bottom make it quite clear that it's possible, this early in the season and for some familiar UKC faces, to attempt mixed routes in a "rock-only" fashion. I haven't missed the discord raised by others of course.
 LakesWinter 16 Nov 2015
In reply to BnB:

There aren't really any to be honest. Even at higher grades routes tend to be pretty turfy and require frozen ground.
 LakesWinter 16 Nov 2015
In reply to BnB:

Things like Pygmy Ridge and Fingers Ridge really do have very little turf on, largely through being climbed in winter in unfrozen conditions in the past. In order to protect vegetation it is really important to leave it alone unless it is well frozen as I'm sure you know.
OP BnB 16 Nov 2015
In reply to TobyA:

I'm up for N Wales, Toby. Conditions there are even more ephemeral than in the Lakes but the mountains are, well, more mountainous, aren't they?
OP BnB 16 Nov 2015
In reply to LakesWinter:


> There aren't really any to be honest. Even at higher grades routes tend to be pretty turfy and require frozen ground.

That's not the answer I hoped to hear but it is the sort of response I was hoping for. Very helpful thanks.
 joe.91 16 Nov 2015
In reply to BnB:

I know the lakes winter fairly well and as far as I know, nothing like Pygmy Ridge exists in the Lakes i.e. winter routes that just need snow. The route that comes into 'nick' the quickest, I my opinion, is Pinnacle Ridge in Gable but it heavily relies on turf and needs to be fully frozen.
OP BnB 16 Nov 2015
In reply to joe.91:

Thanks. I've done Pinnacle Ridge on Gable twice. Once even by the correct route.

 CurlyStevo 16 Nov 2015
In reply to BnB:
have you done the other one? Pinnacle Ridge (Winter) (II)

OP BnB 16 Nov 2015
In reply to CurlyStevo:

No I haven't. But from reports it was one route I wondered might be suggested. Toby also raised it earlier. To be honest I had a fantasy that a nice hooky, torquey IV(4) might have been proffered high on Bowfell or Gable but it seems that was too much to hope for
 sammy5000 16 Nov 2015
In reply to BnB:

pinnacle ridge on st sunday naff all turf unless your looking for it great route
 CurlyStevo 17 Nov 2015
In reply to BnB:

Generally I find early season conditions harder at the sort of grades we climb and I think its normally a good idea to knock a grade or two off your best lead grade for the first couple of trips out anyway. I've not done it but judging by the comments if you stick to the early season line out of the gully on the crux it will feel like a III anyway (also its a grade 3 scramble in summer, in light build up these rarely feel like winter II IMO)
In reply to BnB:
> Can anyone recommend any mixed routes in the Lakes at any grade below V+ which are turf free, or not reliant on turf, requiring not a lot more than a general appearance of whiteness to be in condition with little risk of environmental damage?

No turf?!! General appearance of whiteness?!! Do what the proper climbers did in 1907. It would be appropriate in the conditions you describe to climb any such routes in rock shoes and use fingers instead of hammers. See Max Biden's piece at rear of latest Langdale guide.
 Simon Caldwell 17 Nov 2015
In reply to Dave Cumberland:

Presumably in 1907 they wore nailed boots?
In reply to Simon Caldwell:

slippers old chap
 John Kelly 17 Nov 2015
In reply to Dave Cumberland:

I got dragged up Bowfell butress in slushy conditions using summer kit, bloody desperate, even to follow. Worth reading Herman buhl, he took a robust position on snowed up rock
In reply to John Kelly:

> I got dragged up Bowfell butress in slushy conditions using summer kit, bloody desperate, even to follow. Worth reading Herman buhl, he took a robust position on snowed up rock

If only the new generation of multi-coloured gear freaks took a robust position!!
DC
 hwackerhage 18 Nov 2015
In reply to Andy Clarke1965:

A few routes such as Savage slit are snowed up winter routes that do not rely on frozen turf.
In reply to hwackerhage:

To be honest with you, i climbed Savage slit a long time ago when dusted white, it was mid winter though, the ground well frozen with a big snow slope below, if folks really want to access these climbs after the first snowfall that is up to them, to me this is not what the winter climbing game is all about.
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