UKH

So I'm trying to plan an unguided expedition to the Canadian Arctic, however the thing that seems to be holding me back the most is finding a partner. I am very fussy - all the people I know that have the relevant experience I don't really click with in that way and couldn't imagine having much fun in a tent with for 2 weeks. All the people I get on with most usually don't tick the requirement list mentally (ie emotionally stable, positive, reliable, type 2 fun lover etc). With the reality of being hundreds of miles from the nearest hospital, in -30C/50mph winds and the chance of polar bears chasing us down I feel like I can't really make concessions.

Have you compromised in the past and regretted it? Perhaps you went with someone and they surprised you? Discuss.

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

I've never done any expedition stuff but Ranulph Fiennes talked a bit about the selection of team members in "Mad Bad and Dangerous to Know" and "Beyond the Limits". The general advice seems to be to pick the team based on character rather than skills, avoid malicious personalities and balancing the strengths of the team so that you don't get more lords than peasants.
I hope someone else manages to be a bit more helpful than this.

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

I think I would go for the second part of your list rather than the first. Fun people vs good in a crisis is a no brainer.

Some people may not seem fun on the surface, but you may find it as you get to know them.

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:
The answer may be that if you can't find good partners for serious stuff, just don't go till you do find someone....

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

Why are you going to do this?

If you want success and fame for doing something big and hard - go with skilled people with a proven track record of something similar, and if they're tw*ts, just suck it up and deal with it as the price you pay for ambition over fun. It's only two weeks! You can do something else easier next time.

If you want to have a good time, enjoy a nice place and the experience of sharing it with amiable, balanced and suitably prudent companions who can have a laugh and make the most of whatever happens - go with friends, and if they're not tough or ambitious enough to snare some big hard thing, just suck it up and deal with it as the price you pay for fun over ambition. It's only two weeks! You can come back with tougher mates next time.

If you want to be super fussy, just go solo. It's only two weeks!

Some might say that if you don't know suitable people, from experience, who will do the trip with you, then maybe you yourself don't have the experience or suitability for the trip. I don't necessarily agree with that, but it's something to consider.

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:
I was trying to figure out what a type 2 fun lover was (as opposed to any other type of lover) and then I realised my mistake


In truth my experience suggests that fun people can very quickly become non-fun on expeditions where you are faced with stress and the best stress reliever is experience and skill.

Of course it is possible to find people with both attributes.

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

In answer to how I vet them, I climb in the alps or Scotland in the winter with them a few times beforehand. Then you find out if you want to do something more stressful with them or not.

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

"The Ascent of Rum Doodle" has some interesting observations on the selection of expedition members.

Well worth a read.

I am not fun at all. In tent I would read a book if I have one and there's light. Otherwise I would sleep.
Still people go with me and don't care if I am not the funniest dude on the mountain.

Personally I can climb with anyone as long as he or she is mentally stable. As it was said before "It just 2 weeks". And it's about climbing, not having children together.

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:


I've been seriously burned in this area [once, among many trips]. My hindsight tips, 1. go on a trip with them beforehand [more than a weekend or two], 2. find out exactly what they want to do, and what their climbing style is, 3. watch carefully beforehand for character/personality clashes or mismatches. If the above don't work out well, THINK TWICE+ BEFORE GOING WITH THEM.

Anyway good luck and happy climbing.

In reply to Removed User:

I'm guessing it involves sneaking in the back,well 2 guys in a tent alone for a whole two weeks,things are bound to happen.

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:
I completely understand. before I went to aid solo Washington column yosemite lat year. I tried climbing/training with 3 different people only to find they either lied about there ability or were too lazy and didn't have enough commitment . Although I would have happily climbed with any of them,(I'm quite easy going). But lack of the above was just so fustraiting, so I decided not to bother with any of them.

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

I have only climbed with total unknowns twice. I found both of them via UKC. The first hardly spoke to me for the week that we were together. He spent all his time on his mobile. I am not unusually talkative but he was a bit too silent for me. The other guy had agreed to do some easy acclimatisation climbs as I would be with him immediately after arriving in Europe from Australia. In the event he turned up with a, previously unmentioned, friend who was only interested in long Ds. I went on one with them and that was enough.

There is, IMO, no easy answer to selecting an expedition partner. I have a group of friends, who I have climbed with from Tryfan upwards, for serious stuff. Perhaps you need to simply climb/walk with some potentials in as rough conditions as you can manage.

Although I do not think that there is a simple answer to this, the best advice I have seen on the subject is in Clyde Soles and Phil Powers' "Climbing: Expedition Planning" published by The Mountaineers Books in 2003. It has some good advice on a wide range of other things and I strongly recommend it to you.

Good luck!

Experiences on trips with people I didn't know have ranged from brilliant to awful. If you are "very fussy" you are more likely to hit the dire end of that spectrum.

One comment I can make is that people lie about their abilities and experience and the common expectation that men exaggerate while women are modest is, in my experience, untrue.

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:
Sometimes when we're busy finding faults with other people, it's a good idea to look in the mirror at the same time.

Chances are that other people might well feel the same about us.

In my experience, on long trips, it's the little things that cause friction more than the big things.

Personally I'd never embark on an expedition with someone I didn't know well - it's the climbing equivalent of a blind date, and we all know how most of those turn out.

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

As usual, Andy Kirkpatrick articulates this topic well. This post made me chuckle

http://andy-kirkpatrick.com/blog/view/exped_asshole?utm_content=bufferf2ded...

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:
As has been stated, you go away with them for a weekend before you commit to two full weeks with them. Spending a whole two weeks in tent in the circumstances you describe will be challenging anyway.
Two weeks passes by quick if you have the right person, if you don't get on, a two week nightmare ensues....
Meet and befriend someone you think suitable, don't be under pressure to go on the trip with a stranger, dont set a short time constraint, nor with someone you don't feel comfortable with. Let common sense prevail.
When is your intended trip?
Don't be foolish and rush towards an objective, patience is usually rewarded well.

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

In the past I have sometimes broken with conventional rules / wisdeom on how you choose partners for this kind of thing. But the one rule I have never broken is that I have never gone with someone if I have that basic gut feeling that it is not going to work out, or that they do not have what it takes to deal with an expedition both physically and mentally. It is part of the game that from time to time you might have minor disagreements / annoyances with your climbing partners on these things, but I have never had any major falling out with a climbing partner on an expedition, or gone with a partner who has turned out to have serious inadequacies (in 4 expeditions to greater ranges).

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:
The thing is, for most people, having someone who has the skills AND the experience, and also a similar or complimentary mindset is the best thing, everything else is a compromise!

In my experience, being in challenging situations really shows up all aspects of a person's character. Not only is this when you have to draw from the well of experience to deal with the tough & unexpected, but you may have to be very patient, motivated, resilient, sober, cautious, considerate, and work as a team - and still be able to crack jokes when the going gets tough.

On a couple of occasions, I've organised trips with good friends, only to fall out with them. On one occasion said friends came on a trip fully aware that climbs involved a lot of steep and long complicated approaches, only to find out they had little physical fitness due to being lazy & unprepared - apparently it was my fault for not informing them that climbing in wild places involves bushwhacking, post-holing, steep approaches, and much sweating.

I've met up & climbed with people randomly many times (from UKC and other places), sometimes we'd have a beer beforehand to get acquainted, often not. The outcome climbing has been mixed. I've found that truly experienced climbers tend to be fairly reliable and able to deal with things like tent life pretty well, and have been OK to get along with. Thing is, unless someone has proper proof or a climbing CV that you can see for yourself, it's hard to know their experience for sure. I've met with people who had all the gear and were well motivated, only to find they were either clueless, or were too experienced and snobby to have any normal respect for others. Other times I've climbed with people who had some experience, but lacked social skills, or held strange views (very religious). Roughly half of the time it really worked out brilliantly, the other half I never climbed with them again.

In reply to Goucho:




That's often true in life in general; a good point well made.

In reply to higher.alpine:

Yeah I've had similar experiences. Done a few trips with unknowns with experiences ranging from excellent to total disaster. Latter being when my partner decided at BC that the objective was too hard and commiting. It was the normal way up Ushba from the North!

For me personally I like to climb with someone who I can share responsibility with the planning. Often there is a lot of planning and a lot of decisions that need to be made jointly in advance. Somebody who is organised and engaged. Somebody who I can share responsibilities during the climbing as well. It's not like Scotland where one person can take more of a back seat. It needs to be 50/50 partnership where often the weakest team meamber will determine what is possible on the trip.

It also partly depends on the climbing objective of course. I find it's important to be objective about the challenges involves and then find a suitable partner to match. Or vice versa. The skill set needed for say a hard North face in the Alps verses an easy 7000m peak are completely different so picking a partner/peak to match joint ability can be key.

Joint experiences with one another definately help. Particularly the odd hard day or two. Reassuring to know how your partner deals with tough days out.

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

Well the first step might be to go with the prospect on a nasty wet cold weekend to say N Wales in your case, and do a half dozen long greasy routes on the E Face of Tryfan for example.